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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 61 of 126

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

Let's clarify - you want "Medicare for all". Does that mean everyone has to pay into it? That is the way Medicare works. How would you deal with those unable to pay into it?

 

I have Medicare - I also have (and pay for) a supplement because it is necessary - how do you on the left want to handle that?


To be clear, Sanders is just talking about single payer health care system. He like to call it "medicare for all" because people understand Medicare and it provides so much health care in this country.  We liberals are well aware TANSTAAFL. I would suggest we look at Canada, Europe, and the other countries who have covered their entire populations at less cost and better outcomes to see how best to structure payment. 


I think we are in agreement. When pols call for "Medicare for all" they are lying - what they really want is "Medicaid for all". And even that is a lie because Medicaid starts at 65, they want something beginning at birth.


What we on the Left want is a more just society beginning with a just tax system. What the Republicans want is no taxes from and all benefits to the very wealthy.

 

 


What you on the left want is the government to collect all money earned and act as the redistributor of the money so all people get the same money. Of course, the government would do this very inefficiently, but who cares, it isn't your money!

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 62 of 126

Here's a thought.


Lyndon Johnson won his election in 1964 with nearly 64% of the vote.


Since that time Democrats went 44 years without winning more than 50% of the vote - up until Obama did it in 2008.


What did Obama and Johnson have in common? They both ran on a national healthcare program.

While Johnson's plan was clearly a social program ran by the government, Obama's plan was devised primarily by the private insurance industry.

 

 

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 63 of 126

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

Let's clarify - you want "Medicare for all". Does that mean everyone has to pay into it? That is the way Medicare works. How would you deal with those unable to pay into it?

 

I have Medicare - I also have (and pay for) a supplement because it is necessary - how do you on the left want to handle that?


To be clear, Sanders is just talking about single payer health care system. He like to call it "medicare for all" because people understand Medicare and it provides so much health care in this country.  We liberals are well aware TANSTAAFL. I would suggest we look at Canada, Europe, and the other countries who have covered their entire populations at less cost and better outcomes to see how best to structure payment. 


I think we are in agreement. When pols call for "Medicare for all" they are lying - what they really want is "Medicaid for all". And even that is a lie because Medicaid starts at 65, they want something beginning at birth.


What we on the Left want is a more just society beginning with a just tax system. What the Republicans want is no taxes from and all benefits to the very wealthy.

 

 

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost 32 TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW !

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Message 64 of 126

@mickstuder wrote:


 

Thank you Gail - my position - we have done Healthcare in this Country the same way for multiple decades and the Costs are some of the Highest of any Industrialized Country and the Outcomes are worse in almost every measured modality 

 

Obamacare gave us a Template loosely based on what we've learned from our own Medicare/Medicaid/VA Healthcare  Systems along with other Universal Healthcare Programs around the world - it was for once a new approach to Healthcare for Americans to try. It never had a chance - Politics & Racism against Obama doomed it from the beginning. 

 

Obamacare like every other Political Football in the USA was not a bi-partisan effort to find the best solution for our Citizens so it was purposefully flawed 

 

Until we punish politicians by refusing to re-elect them until they start doing what is best for the Majority of Americans instead of what is best for their own careers & Special Interests - we are going to have more and more issues like our  Horrible Healthcare

 

Unfortunately the Politicians who had the Courage to create Medicare - Medicaid - Social Security and to demand Equal Rights & Civil Rights left none of their DNA behind .....

 

 


How can you possibly equate equal rights with socialized medicine?

 

And to claim Obamacare failed due to racism is sick. Obamacare was never supposed to work - it was a carefully designed step to socialized medicine.

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 65 of 126

@GailL1 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@

 


Great non-answer. If one insists that we must have an all or nothing solution nothing will ever be solved.


It was meant to give you an answer - There is NO reason why some of these things couldn't be initiated here RIGHT NOW - especially the way we approve drugs - why should cost not be a factor in the approval of drugs????  We need to be measuring the benefit of any and all medicines, procedures, treatments - including their cost - alone and against each other.

 

The only reason we don't initiate these right now is because people here would scream that they are being denied something.  We are a very spoiled society in our healthcare - we get what we want, when we want it.  People in other countries don't get that convenience unless it is an emergency.

 

 

 

 


There is one major reason that these things cannot be done right now - the Republicans control Congress. 

 

Unless there are price controls put on drugs there is nothing to stop a company from drastically increasing the price of a drug after it has been approved. This was shown when the price of a drug was increased by 7000% with no changes to the makeup of the drug.

 

Other countries attack price gouging while some in this country cheer it.

 

One way to control prices is for the government to control the patent on drugs developed under government contract.

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 66 of 126

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@

 


Great non-answer. If one insists that we must have an all or nothing solution nothing will ever be solved.


It was meant to give you an answer - There is NO reason why some of these things couldn't be initiated here RIGHT NOW - especially the way we approve drugs - why should cost not be a factor in the approval of drugs????  We need to be measuring the benefit of any and all medicines, procedures, treatments - including their cost - alone and against each other.

 

The only reason we don't initiate these right now is because people here would scream that they are being denied something.  We are a very spoiled society in our healthcare - we get what we want, when we want it.  People in other countries don't get that convenience unless it is an emergency.

 

 

 

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 67 of 126

@GailL1 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:


 


Why does everything have to be fixed before anything can be done? Is it worse fixing the problem in increments than doing nothing and letting the problem continue to fester?

 

When you go to the doctor for an infection do you refuse all treatment since she isn’t able to cure it immediately?

 


Because our COST problems have a lot to do with things that don't work - or they have to be done over again because something wasn't right before the treatment - or we don't approve medicines, medical procedures and treatments based on their effectiveness ( efficacy ) including cost.

 

Because we should NOT pay for treatment for an infection with antibiotics if the infection is viral based?  Happens all the time now, because people demand treatment and the providers comply because these people are their customers and they don't want to wait for the lab work or even pay for it to determine the source of the infection.

 

Because to negootiate anything you have to begin with a source of power - meaning that things are chosen to negotiate because they are the best method, including cost.

 

Because we have too much medical infrastructure in some places and not enough in others.

 

Here is a list of other countries healthcare system - Cost Containment Methods.

International Healthcare Systems Profiles - Cost Containment Methods

  • most all of them use a "global budget" - global budgeting is the process by which society chooses, directs, and enforces how much to spend on health care, what to spend it on, and where that spending will take place.
  • they place restrictions on new investment in medical capital and technology
  • they negotiate for the best at the least price - technology, treatments, procedures medicines and one against the other
  • they determine best practices and recommend people NOT use low-valued care ( Chose Wisely - Canada )
  • some have a diagnositic board that makes determinations on appropriate treatments with "necessity clauses" directly related to the diagnosis.
  • Some control pharmaceutical costs by making coverage decisions on all new medicines on their effectiveness and cost .  They review all of them periodically and if a new ones comes out - it is evaluated based on which is the best (new or old)- including cost.  This review may even cross over treatment types - like a medicine vs a medical procedure - which is the best, including price.
  • many of them are limiting their exposure to the orphan drug market because it is exploding now - if they even have a plan for coverage at all

These are just a few - you can look at the link but the moral to the story is if we are to all pay for healthcare in some shared method - we have to know exactly what that is and how to control the cost of it or it will become just a bigger, more costly disaster.

 

 

 

 


Great non-answer. If one insists that we must have an all or nothing solution nothing will ever be solved.

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 68 of 126

@Snoopy48 wrote:


 


Why does everything have to be fixed before anything can be done? Is it worse fixing the problem in increments than doing nothing and letting the problem continue to fester?

 

When you go to the doctor for an infection do you refuse all treatment since she isn’t able to cure it immediately?

 


Because our COST problems have a lot to do with things that don't work - or they have to be done over again because something wasn't right before the treatment - or we don't approve medicines, medical procedures and treatments based on their effectiveness ( efficacy ) including cost.

 

Because we should NOT pay for treatment for an infection with antibiotics if the infection is viral based?  Happens all the time now, because people demand treatment and the providers comply because these people are their customers and they don't want to wait for the lab work or even pay for it to determine the source of the infection.

 

Because to negootiate anything you have to begin with a source of power - meaning that things are chosen to negotiate because they are the best method, including cost.

 

Because we have too much medical infrastructure in some places and not enough in others.

 

Here is a list of other countries healthcare system - Cost Containment Methods.

International Healthcare Systems Profiles - Cost Containment Methods

  • most all of them use a "global budget" - global budgeting is the process by which society chooses, directs, and enforces how much to spend on health care, what to spend it on, and where that spending will take place.
  • they place restrictions on new investment in medical capital and technology
  • they negotiate for the best at the least price - technology, treatments, procedures medicines and one against the other
  • they determine best practices and recommend people NOT use low-valued care ( Chose Wisely - Canada )
  • some have a diagnositic board that makes determinations on appropriate treatments with "necessity clauses" directly related to the diagnosis.
  • Some control pharmaceutical costs by making coverage decisions on all new medicines on their effectiveness and cost .  They review all of them periodically and if a new ones comes out - it is evaluated based on which is the best (new or old)- including cost.  This review may even cross over treatment types - like a medicine vs a medical procedure - which is the best, including price.
  • many of them are limiting their exposure to the orphan drug market because it is exploding now - if they even have a plan for coverage at all

These are just a few - you can look at the link but the moral to the story is if we are to all pay for healthcare in some shared method - we have to know exactly what that is and how to control the cost of it or it will become just a bigger, more costly disaster.

 

 

 

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 69 of 126

@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

The "something for nothing party" now wants Medicare for all. They think that doubling all the taxes will cover it (except for those who don't pay tax). Oh yes, we will need a carbon tax and a national sales tax to cover it all, but the "something for nothing party" wants it, so we should have it. What's next? Free college, free housing, free food, free cars, and of course a guaranteed income from the "government".

 

Can we just become part of Venezuela?


The "something for nothing party" are the ones advocating taxation of the people who own 80% of the nation's wealth where the "party which cannot govern" is giving them tax breaks. 

 

I would point out that last year America spent $3.2T on health care. Times ten an you have a similar number but without everyone being covered. Why would you pay the same price to cover fewer people? Conservatives, just can't understand the math.  Or read, apparently. 


You failed to mention that ALL groups are getting a tax break but the "something for nothing party" (the Democrats in case you didn't guess correctly) want tax breaks ONLY for people paying no taxes now (commonly called a credit). Just think, if your party got their wish, medical procedures would have long wait times like Canada/Europe and difficulty getting the doctor you want. Just think, the next time you need an MRI, you would be asked to wait 6 months like Canada!

 

Isn't it wonderful when everything is free?

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 70 of 126

@Soosie wrote:
They ask "Do you support Medicare For All if it gives the Government too much control over health care?" when the real question is "Do you support Government controlling what providers receive for services just as they do now with Medicare?" @scout.......question for you......How many of the providers do you think will stop operating their "business" and when they do and services are slow, lean and non-existent what do you think will happen? I know some doctors who are packing it up already.

Right now, each of the other 36 developed countries have their version of Medicare for all health insurance. Each implemented it to eliminate uninsured. That massively cut government spending, cut the cost of health insurance, improved health, and improved the heath care system.

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