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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 41 of 126

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@Soosie wrote:
They ask "Do you support Medicare For All if it gives the Government too much control over health care?" when the real question is "Do you support Government controlling what providers receive for services just as they do now with Medicare?" @scout.......question for you......How many of the providers do you think will stop operating their "business" and when they do and services are slow, lean and non-existent what do you think will happen? I know some doctors who are packing it up already.

Fewer than ever stopped treating Medicare patients, and every one who goes out of business to make a political statement will be replaced by two who realize always getting paid for everyone you treat is a no-lose situation.

 

The REALITY is while Medicare and Medicare for all may not pay as much as the Corporate Charge Master says they should, because those rates are totally fictional and should never be used as a yardstick of how care providers are compensated.  What Medicare DOES pay is the actual cost of delivering the service plus a reasonable profit. Proof is readily available by checking what the rest of the World considers ample compensation for various procedures, and noting the "Charge Master" fiction is outrageously excessive.

 

There's a reason we are the only industrialized Nation without Universal coverage. Its because we're the only industrialized Nation WITH REPUBLICANS.


Is it Republicans you don't like or is it free market capitalism? You do know that if you have your dreams fulfilled and no more Republicans just your one Party, strong central authority you will have your dream of wealth redistribution. That is the point - is it not?


Republicans are the ONLY reason we don't have Universal health care.

 

What did you take to induce the dream health care has anything to do with free market capitalism?

 

A "Free Market" depends on the ability of the consumer to make rational decisions about their purchases. There is no ability of the consumer to select services based on necessary information to make such a decision because the "track record" for physicians is not public, nor is the efficiency of the Hospital or clinic. And then there's the fact one does not drive around the city in the ambulance looking for the best deal in an ER after they suffer traumatic injury.

 

The pricing of the services is based on "what the traffic will bear" with no regard for the actual cost to provide the service, nor is there the slightest hint of "price competition" among providers.


The availability of physicians is totally controlled by the physicians themselves. The AMA has restricted Medical School class size for at least 100 years, and they have driven lower cost competitors our of the market, like Midwives that deliver the vast majority of children born in the rest of the industrialized world and nurse practitioners who, like military corpsmen, could handle a great deal of the care for patients at a fraction of the cost.

 

So something will replace the present GOP, just as it replaced the Party that existed pre-1980, there is no "free market Capitalism" in our health care system, and you should admit what you really want is to continue the redistribution of wealth (in addition to income) from the middle class to the top of the 1% until your dream of an American Oligarchy is achieved.

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 42 of 126

@alotofgrey wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

If your 1954 rusted out Rambler breaks down, you do NOT set out to repair it as your primary transportation. You get a new car. Same applies to "fixing" our health care system.

 

Scout,
We do not have a health care system problem. We have a  "health insurance" problem.

Medicare-for-all is a health insurance program that will end (fix) that problem.

Note: We have one of the best health care systems on this planet.

 


No, we have the 37th best health care system in the World, we're only #1 in COST, and while Insurance is part of the problem, it includes the delivery system which is based on profit maximization and the AMA which has restricted the SUPPLY of physicians to drive up their incomes for the last 100 years.

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 43 of 126

@alotofgrey wrote:

 

 

Scout,
We do not have a health care system problem. We have a  "health insurance" problem.

Medicare-for-all is a health insurance program that will end (fix) that problem.

Note: We have one of the best health care systems on this planet.

 


Where did you get that info or why do you think we have one of the best health care systems on the planet ?

 

And I am talking outcomes - international ranking of other industrial countries puts the US very close to the bottom - but they also include cost in their analysis.

 

 Commonwealth Fund.org - July 13,2017 - Health Care System Performance Rankings

 

Our system is inefficient, costly and outcomes are dismall compared to other countries.   We have access to many medical things - but that does not mean these things are used in the best manner.

 

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 44 of 126

@Olderscout66 wrote:

If your 1954 rusted out Rambler breaks down, you do NOT set out to repair it as your primary transportation. You get a new car. Same applies to "fixing" our health care system.

 

Scout,
We do not have a health care system problem. We have a  "health insurance" problem.

Medicare-for-all is a health insurance program that will end (fix) that problem.

Note: We have one of the best health care systems on this planet.

 

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 45 of 126

If your 1954 rusted out Rambler breaks down, you do NOT set out to repair it as your primary transportation. You get a new car. Same applies to "fixing" our health care system.

 

Hospitals accounted for $1.1Trillion or 32% of health care expenditures in 2016.

 

They all use a totally fantasy based system called The Charge Master that bills patients not for the cost of the service, but the maximum amount the Hospital thinks they can make the patient pay - this is where those $50 asprin tabs come from. Instead demand the max allowable is whatever Medicare considers a fair and reasonable price, NOT the max Medicare will pay. Est saving: $100B

 

Since it's "single payer" the hospitals no longer need to worry about hundreds of insurance schedules and coding schemes, so their admin expense, around 30% of their total costs, gets cut in half. Est. savings: $165B

 

The insurance companies will no longer be inventing unique coverage plans - they will all offer a standard plan covering everything Medicare now covers plus OB/GYN. Additional services will be between the customer and the company. Est saving: $50B

 

We can re-start Midwives in the USA, so uncomplicated births can be done at home. Right now, the OB/GYNs are so overburdened they use Caesarian Sections so they can handle their patient load. Cost of a delivery by midwife in the UK is $7,000, cost for hospital delivery in the US is $32,000, so for 4 million births each year: Est saving: $100B

 

That's $415 BILLION in savings without even considering things like using WATSON and an RN to do diagnostics, sharing high-cost equipment among hospitals to maximize their economic utility, and expanding the pool of paraProfessionals.

 

Doctors and clinicians cost $665 Billion, 20% of the total. Write some sensible controls for malpractice claims, perhaps limit it to actual damages unless criminal negligence can be proven. Or perhaps make the HOSPITAL responsible for the second or third malpractice claim from any single physician. But first thing we do is provide 100% grants to anyone who can get into and out of Medical School, CONDITIONED on them serving for 5 years in an "underserved area", and include no-interest Gov't loans to set up clinics where none exist. Est savings: $25Billion

 

Prescription Drugs account for $329 Billion or 10% of the total. We know for a fact the drugs bought by Medicare cost 40% more (on average) than the drugs bought by the VA. We also know other countries have negotiated MUCH lower prices from American drug companies, and the companies have NOT abandoned those markets, so they have got to be making money at the much lower price. We can shave 40% of the cost for drugs just by making the reimbursement schedule used by VA the standard. Est savings: $130 Billion

 

With very little effort, we can find a way to cut the COST of our medical care by HALF - which should come as no surprise since our costs are slightly more than TWICE the next highest on a per capita basis.

 

NOW we can do Medicare for All and since the "tax" would be whatever you're paying for your insurance, and the insurance company just got its payouts cut in half, it will be a huge TAX CUT that actually goes to the 99% to get Universal Coverage.

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 46 of 126

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@Soosie wrote:
They ask "Do you support Medicare For All if it gives the Government too much control over health care?" when the real question is "Do you support Government controlling what providers receive for services just as they do now with Medicare?" @scout.......question for you......How many of the providers do you think will stop operating their "business" and when they do and services are slow, lean and non-existent what do you think will happen? I know some doctors who are packing it up already.

Fewer than ever stopped treating Medicare patients, and every one who goes out of business to make a political statement will be replaced by two who realize always getting paid for everyone you treat is a no-lose situation.

 

The REALITY is while Medicare and Medicare for all may not pay as much as the Corporate Charge Master says they should, because those rates are totally fictional and should never be used as a yardstick of how care providers are compensated.  What Medicare DOES pay is the actual cost of delivering the service plus a reasonable profit. Proof is readily available by checking what the rest of the World considers ample compensation for various procedures, and noting the "Charge Master" fiction is outrageously excessive.

 

There's a reason we are the only industrialized Nation without Universal coverage. Its because we're the only industrialized Nation WITH REPUBLICANS.


Is it Republicans you don't like or is it free market capitalism? You do know that if you have your dreams fulfilled and no more Republicans just your one Party, strong central authority you will have your dream of wealth redistribution. That is the point - is it not?

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 47 of 126

 


@Snoopy48 wrote:

We can just keep what we have and spend $33 trillion without considering inflation or population growth.


Which is what the GOPerLords want - maximum profits, minimum performance.

 

As for "all those doctors who will leave the system" - that claim has been around since 1964, and here's what the Kaiser Foundation discovered when they actually looked into the situation:

Main findings:

  • On a national level, Medicare patients have good access to physicians.  The vast majority (96%) of Medicare beneficiaries report having a usual source of care, primarily a doctor’s office or doctor’s clinic.
  • Most people with Medicare—about 90 percent—are able to schedule timely appointments for routine and specialty care. Medicare seniors are more likely than privately insured adults age 50-64 to report “never” having to wait longer than they want for timely routine care appointments.
  • A small share of Medicare beneficiaries say they looked for a new physician in the past year, and only 2 percent of seniors with Medicare report problems finding one when needed—comparable to rates reported by privately insured adults age 50-64.
  • Medicare seniors report foregoing medical care at similar or lower rates than privately insured adults age 50-64. Certain subgroups of the Medicare population are more likely than others to report not seeing a doctor when they thought they needed to during the year, particularly beneficiaries who: are under age 65 and qualify for Medicare because of a permanent disability; have either Medicaid (dually eligible for Medicare and Medicaid) or no supplemental coverage; are Black; have lower incomes; are in fair or poor health, and/or have five or more chronic conditions.  Even within these vulnerable subgroups, however, the majority do not report foregoing doctor visits when needed.
  • According to recently-released physician survey data, the majority (91%) of non-pediatric physicians accept new Medicare patients—the same rate that accept new patients with private non-capitated insurance.  This correlation persists generally across states, indicating that physician acceptance of new Medicare patients may be more related to local market factors than issues unique to Medicare overall.
  • According to new physician data from Medicare, less than 1 percent of physicians in clinical practice have formally “opted-out” of the Medicare program, with psychiatrists accounting for the largest share (42%).

In short, Medicare is a raging SUCCESS and doctors are NOT leaving. It seems likely the Republicans THINK a large number are because of that last little statistic. For those, I recommend they "self-medicate" by forcing a withdrawl from RW media.

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 48 of 126

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@Soosie wrote:
They ask "Do you support Medicare For All if it gives the Government too much control over health care?" when the real question is "Do you support Government controlling what providers receive for services just as they do now with Medicare?" @scout.......question for you......How many of the providers do you think will stop operating their "business" and when they do and services are slow, lean and non-existent what do you think will happen? I know some doctors who are packing it up already.

Fewer than ever stopped treating Medicare patients, and every one who goes out of business to make a political statement will be replaced by two who realize always getting paid for everyone you treat is a no-lose situation.

 

The REALITY is while Medicare and Medicare for all may not pay as much as the Corporate Charge Master says they should, because those rates are totally fictional and should never be used as a yardstick of how care providers are compensated.  What Medicare DOES pay is the actual cost of delivering the service plus a reasonable profit. Proof is readily available by checking what the rest of the World considers ample compensation for various procedures, and noting the "Charge Master" fiction is outrageously excessive.

 

There's a reason we are the only industrialized Nation without Universal coverage. Its because we're the only industrialized Nation WITH REPUBLICANS.


There is a reason why so many people are trying to sneak into our country. I'll give you three guesses why and it's not because we don't have universal healthcare for all for free!

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 49 of 126

@Soosie wrote:
They ask "Do you support Medicare For All if it gives the Government too much control over health care?" when the real question is "Do you support Government controlling what providers receive for services just as they do now with Medicare?" @scout.......question for you......How many of the providers do you think will stop operating their "business" and when they do and services are slow, lean and non-existent what do you think will happen? I know some doctors who are packing it up already.

Fewer than ever stopped treating Medicare patients, and every one who goes out of business to make a political statement will be replaced by two who realize always getting paid for everyone you treat is a no-lose situation.

 

The REALITY is while Medicare and Medicare for all may not pay as much as the Corporate Charge Master says they should, because those rates are totally fictional and should never be used as a yardstick of how care providers are compensated.  What Medicare DOES pay is the actual cost of delivering the service plus a reasonable profit. Proof is readily available by checking what the rest of the World considers ample compensation for various procedures, and noting the "Charge Master" fiction is outrageously excessive.

 

There's a reason we are the only industrialized Nation without Universal coverage. Its because we're the only industrialized Nation WITH REPUBLICANS.

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Re: New Study - "Medicare for All" to Cost $ 32-TRILLION ( 10 Years ) WOW ! WOW ! WOW

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Message 50 of 126

@mandm84 wrote:

Try getting into a nursing home without Medicaid Assistance. Unless you're a Millionaire , you aint getting in in my State !!! Medicaid isn't always Welfare rk9152 !!!


Then what is the difference between Medicare and Medicaid?

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