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Re: Neo Marxist Fantasy

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@Olderscout66 wrote:

rk has indeed constructed an amazing FANTASY about Marxism, centering on the totally unsupportable assertion that anything that has been done by the American Government can in any way be equated with the acts of Stalin and Mao.
@rk9152 wrote:

Sorry for the delay on this topic, I assure you it was not my doing. Now, let's leave sighing about religion and get back to the issue.  

 

Historically, the path to Marxism has four parts.

The first is the basic concept. That was documented by Marx and is available to read. That provides the intellectual element bit. Except for the fact the examination of Marx's writings expose them as Utopian drivle.

 

Then there is the second (physical) element and it is provided by rousing the people up through hatred. Targets of the hatred are needed. In the case of Russia it was the Czar, his supporters and his implementers (mostly land owners since it was an agrarian economy). Here it is “the Orange Toad”, Trumpatoons (and the like), and the job creators such as the successful and corporations. No, the HATRED is directed at Women, the Poor, refugees and anyone who isn't white by the Republican Party and its Propaganda Ministry at FOX. What is directed at all those cited by rk is scorn and derision based on a rational examination of their actions

 

Third the people must by roused up to take action. In the case of Russia it was the failed revolution and then the successful one where you can get mobs in the street willing to disrupt the status quo including with violence. We have Occupy, antifa, the pussyhat mobs and Maxine Waters followers, BLM, bullhorn chanters, etc. Not even close. What we have here are Nazis, KKK and White Supremacists urged on by the POTUS to commit acts of deadly violence against imaginary enemies, like the child sex rings operating at PizzaHut or the Jews who are paying for the invasion of our southern border by a hoard of starving women and children. Everyone cited by rk is fighting AGAINST the violence promoted by Republicans and defended by their POTUS.

 

And finally, there are the pragmatists who actually implement the “new world order”. We know the end result in Russia. What that would look like here? Who knows? Actually we DO know - it would look very much like America from 1946 to 1965. An ever-expanding Middle Class.  96% of profits from increased worker productivity going to the workers. The best infrastructure, including k-12 schools and affordable post-secondary education IN THE WORLD. Loyalty reciprocated between employers and employees. A totally solvent Social Security Trust Fund with huge surpluses in both the OASI and DI portions of the SSTF and Medicare to provide for our Seniors' health needs.

t

An interesting aside that gives an insight into the thinking of some of our more radical leftists happened in Russia. After the revolution they had their civil war to work things out between the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks. The Leninists took the land from the owners and gave it to the farmers. It seemed to work pretty well but then came Stalin with the theme often heard here, “we the people”. He took the land from the farmers and declared it the property of “the people”. Naturally, (as is called for here) the government took over the land as the representative of “the people”.  And the mass starvation and oppression the followed was predictable and a strong reason for me (and any thinking person) to oppose the Marxism of the left. 

What rk has done here is to (not so) subtly transmogrify restoring reasonable taxation so the burden falls on those most able to pay with the least disruption to their lifestyles into the Stalinist slaughter of the Kulaks.

 

The reality is since 1966, the American tax structure has promoted the redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the very top of the 1%. This process went into overdrive in 1981 and hit warp speed in 1985 and since 1981 profits generated by increased worker productivity have increased 130% while wages have increased 4% for workers but 400% for Management, with nearly logarithmic increases above $250,000.

 

So far, the GOPerLords have managed to dupe their base into thinking the fact they are the first generation to NOT do better than their parents is all because Civil Rights and Affirmative Action allowed women and minorities to 'CUT IN LINE" ahead of white Americans. The reality - that the plight of the American Workers is 100% the result of Republican legislation that promoted the redistribution of income and wealth from the middle to the very top- just might be FINALLY getting thru to the middle class. The first evidence of this would be the Blue Wave that swept away the GOPer majority in the House. Seems people noticed that Corporate Profits were up 31% while wage hikes didn't even cover inflation, and there was probably a reason for that which did not involve their boss somehow being required to hire and promote more women and minorities.

 

There IS one solid connection between rk's fantasy historical perspective and reality.

The Russian Revolution happened because the Russian Aristocracy had systematically taken EVERYTHING and left 95% of the population with nothing, save the constant threat of starvation.

The Reagan Revolution has taken virtually everything from the American Middle Class and left them with no hope for the future, which just MIGHT promote a Second American Revolution, and the objective of the new Revolutionaries will NOT be to continue to persecute women and minorities. Instead it will be focused on those who wound up with all the goodies while the workers got nothing but higher costs lower pay and longer hours.


 


rk has accurately described the thinking of Marx and how it translates into the Progressive Movement. For some reason scout prefers to talk about Stalin and Mao, Fox, the KKK, Pizza Hut, dreams of a half century ago, affirmative action, grammar school, corporate profits, and persecuted minorities - and, of course, the ever popular Reagan tax cuts.

 

rk recommends simply reading what he has posted and agreeing or disagreeing with that and stating "why".

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Re: Neo Marxist Fantasy

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Message 2 of 19

rk has indeed constructed an amazing FANTASY about Marxism, centering on the totally unsupportable assertion that anything that has been done by the American Government can in any way be equated with the acts of Stalin and Mao.
@rk9152 wrote:

Sorry for the delay on this topic, I assure you it was not my doing. Now, let's leave sighing about religion and get back to the issue.  

 

Historically, the path to Marxism has four parts.

The first is the basic concept. That was documented by Marx and is available to read. That provides the intellectual element bit. Except for the fact the examination of Marx's writings expose them as Utopian drivle.

 

Then there is the second (physical) element and it is provided by rousing the people up through hatred. Targets of the hatred are needed. In the case of Russia it was the Czar, his supporters and his implementers (mostly land owners since it was an agrarian economy). Here it is “the Orange Toad”, Trumpatoons (and the like), and the job creators such as the successful and corporations. No, the HATRED is directed at Women, the Poor, refugees and anyone who isn't white by the Republican Party and its Propaganda Ministry at FOX. What is directed at all those cited by rk is scorn and derision based on a rational examination of their actions

 

Third the people must by roused up to take action. In the case of Russia it was the failed revolution and then the successful one where you can get mobs in the street willing to disrupt the status quo including with violence. We have Occupy, antifa, the pussyhat mobs and Maxine Waters followers, BLM, bullhorn chanters, etc. Not even close. What we have here are Nazis, KKK and White Supremacists urged on by the POTUS to commit acts of deadly violence against imaginary enemies, like the child sex rings operating at PizzaHut or the Jews who are paying for the invasion of our southern border by a hoard of starving women and children. Everyone cited by rk is fighting AGAINST the violence promoted by Republicans and defended by their POTUS.

 

And finally, there are the pragmatists who actually implement the “new world order”. We know the end result in Russia. What that would look like here? Who knows? Actually we DO know - it would look very much like America from 1946 to 1965. An ever-expanding Middle Class.  96% of profits from increased worker productivity going to the workers. The best infrastructure, including k-12 schools and affordable post-secondary education IN THE WORLD. Loyalty reciprocated between employers and employees. A totally solvent Social Security Trust Fund with huge surpluses in both the OASI and DI portions of the SSTF and Medicare to provide for our Seniors' health needs.

t

An interesting aside that gives an insight into the thinking of some of our more radical leftists happened in Russia. After the revolution they had their civil war to work things out between the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks. The Leninists took the land from the owners and gave it to the farmers. It seemed to work pretty well but then came Stalin with the theme often heard here, “we the people”. He took the land from the farmers and declared it the property of “the people”. Naturally, (as is called for here) the government took over the land as the representative of “the people”.  And the mass starvation and oppression the followed was predictable and a strong reason for me (and any thinking person) to oppose the Marxism of the left. 

What rk has done here is to (not so) subtly transmogrify restoring reasonable taxation so the burden falls on those most able to pay with the least disruption to their lifestyles into the Stalinist slaughter of the Kulaks.

 

The reality is since 1966, the American tax structure has promoted the redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the very top of the 1%. This process went into overdrive in 1981 and hit warp speed in 1985 and since 1981 profits generated by increased worker productivity have increased 130% while wages have increased 4% for workers but 400% for Management, with nearly logarithmic increases above $250,000.

 

So far, the GOPerLords have managed to dupe their base into thinking the fact they are the first generation to NOT do better than their parents is all because Civil Rights and Affirmative Action allowed women and minorities to 'CUT IN LINE" ahead of white Americans. The reality - that the plight of the American Workers is 100% the result of Republican legislation that promoted the redistribution of income and wealth from the middle to the very top- just might be FINALLY getting thru to the middle class. The first evidence of this would be the Blue Wave that swept away the GOPer majority in the House. Seems people noticed that Corporate Profits were up 31% while wage hikes didn't even cover inflation, and there was probably a reason for that which did not involve their boss somehow being required to hire and promote more women and minorities.

 

There IS one solid connection between rk's fantasy historical perspective and reality.

The Russian Revolution happened because the Russian Aristocracy had systematically taken EVERYTHING and left 95% of the population with nothing, save the constant threat of starvation.

The Reagan Revolution has taken virtually everything from the American Middle Class and left them with no hope for the future, which just MIGHT promote a Second American Revolution, and the objective of the new Revolutionaries will NOT be to continue to persecute women and minorities. Instead it will be focused on those who wound up with all the goodies while the workers got nothing but higher costs lower pay and longer hours.


 

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Re: Neo Marxist Fantasy

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Message 3 of 19

@aruzinsky wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

Neo Marxism is  often used  on these threads as a catch all to end a disagreement.. " of course you think people are racist, you think like a neo marxist."  its a conversation stopper for sure, because unless you are involved in the minutae of the alt right you have no idea exactly what it is. 

 

What is it? Its a boogeyman of the extreme right. A neo marxist ( aka cultural marxist) boogeyman has been tossed around by white supremicists since the 30's, to be sure its a real thing but its NOT what is portrayed to be by right wing extremists.

 

In  2012, a hero of the modern fascist movement featured it in his some 1500 page manifesto.

 

Quoting an article to jog some memories..

 

"On July 22, 2011, in downtown Oslo, the right-wing extremist Anders Behring Breivik—who once gifted his mother a vibrator—detonated a bomb outside the prime minister's office, killing eight. He then drove 25 miles to Utøya island, where the ruling Labour Party's youth rally was being held, and began an hour-long shooting spree that ended with 69 more dead, most of them teenagers. That morning he had electronically distributed a 1,520-page tract, 2083: A European Declaration of Independence, decrying the "rise of cultural Marxism/multiculturalism in the West." Later, he said the massacre had been a way of publicizing his manifesto."

 

Full article :https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/78mnny/unwrapping-the-conspiracy-theory-that-drives-the-alt-right

 

I have more links upon request. The articles are interesting, but boring. It is fun however, to know where these whackaoodle theories come from.


A test for neo-Marxism:

 

Which of the following most closely expresses your viewpoint:

 

A. From each according to their ability and to each according to their need.

 

B. From each according to their ability and to each according to their ability.

 

If you selected A., then you are a neo-Marxist.


Well phrased.

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Re: Neo Marxist Fantasy

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Message 4 of 19

@MIseker wrote:

Neo Marxism is  often used  on these threads as a catch all to end a disagreement.. " of course you think people are racist, you think like a neo marxist."  its a conversation stopper for sure, because unless you are involved in the minutae of the alt right you have no idea exactly what it is. 

 

What is it? Its a boogeyman of the extreme right. A neo marxist ( aka cultural marxist) boogeyman has been tossed around by white supremicists since the 30's, to be sure its a real thing but its NOT what is portrayed to be by right wing extremists.

 

In  2012, a hero of the modern fascist movement featured it in his some 1500 page manifesto.

 

Quoting an article to jog some memories..

 

"On July 22, 2011, in downtown Oslo, the right-wing extremist Anders Behring Breivik—who once gifted his mother a vibrator—detonated a bomb outside the prime minister's office, killing eight. He then drove 25 miles to Utøya island, where the ruling Labour Party's youth rally was being held, and began an hour-long shooting spree that ended with 69 more dead, most of them teenagers. That morning he had electronically distributed a 1,520-page tract, 2083: A European Declaration of Independence, decrying the "rise of cultural Marxism/multiculturalism in the West." Later, he said the massacre had been a way of publicizing his manifesto."

 

Full article :https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/78mnny/unwrapping-the-conspiracy-theory-that-drives-the-alt-right

 

I have more links upon request. The articles are interesting, but boring. It is fun however, to know where these whackaoodle theories come from.


A test for neo-Marxism:

 

Which of the following most closely expresses your viewpoint:

 

A. From each according to their ability and to each according to their need.

 

B. From each according to their ability and to each according to their ability.

 

If you selected A., then you are a neo-Marxist.

Old Witch
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Re: Neo Marxist Fantasy

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Message 5 of 19

@MIseker wrote:
It doesnt matter if I believe in all of them. your theory is a figment of right wing imaginations. Until you can prove its validity, thereby making the majority of your posts valid, there is really nothing further to discuss.

of course it matters. if one believes in the basics tenets of Marx that would by definition make that person a Marxists. equally, if a political movement such as the Progressive Movement adheres to the basic tenets of Marx, it would be Marxist.

 

now - do you want to discuss the pluses and minuses of Marxism or do you just want to hide behind "right wing imaginations"?

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Re: Neo Marxist Fantasy

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Message 6 of 19
It doesnt matter if I believe in all of them. your theory is a figment of right wing imaginations. Until you can prove its validity, thereby making the majority of your posts valid, there is really nothing further to discuss.
So it begins.
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Re: Neo Marxist Fantasy

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Message 7 of 19

@MIseker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

@vjklander wrote:
Of course. The current Bolshevik takeover of Amerika is a mere continuation of the Bolshevik takeover in Russia. At least the Russians were smart enough to throw them out. This has been happening for over a century with the Democrat Party waging war against family. Well, they are getting their way. The United States is in its death throes. Civil War II is on the Horizon as our contribution to WWIII. Good luck to all those who depend on government for their every need cradle to grave.

oh boy!! a sidekick!!!


do you have any thoughts on the subject? for example, what was historically or contemporarily wrong with my post?


yes. In reality it only has  an impact on the alt right an their acolytes.  Just ecause you follow an " intellectual theory", doesnt make the alt right intellectuals. 


do you have any thoughts on the information offered or is "sidekick" and something about some intellectual measurement as far as you can go?

 

as an example - how many of the 10 planks do you not agree with?

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Re: Neo Marxist Fantasy

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Message 8 of 19

@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

@vjklander wrote:
Of course. The current Bolshevik takeover of Amerika is a mere continuation of the Bolshevik takeover in Russia. At least the Russians were smart enough to throw them out. This has been happening for over a century with the Democrat Party waging war against family. Well, they are getting their way. The United States is in its death throes. Civil War II is on the Horizon as our contribution to WWIII. Good luck to all those who depend on government for their every need cradle to grave.

oh boy!! a sidekick!!!


do you have any thoughts on the subject? for example, what was historically or contemporarily wrong with my post?


yes. In reality it only has  an impact on the alt right an their acolytes.  Just ecause you follow an " intellectual theory", doesnt make the alt right intellectuals. 

So it begins.
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Re: Neo Marxist Fantasy

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Message 9 of 19

@MIseker wrote:

@vjklander wrote:
Of course. The current Bolshevik takeover of Amerika is a mere continuation of the Bolshevik takeover in Russia. At least the Russians were smart enough to throw them out. This has been happening for over a century with the Democrat Party waging war against family. Well, they are getting their way. The United States is in its death throes. Civil War II is on the Horizon as our contribution to WWIII. Good luck to all those who depend on government for their every need cradle to grave.

oh boy!! a sidekick!!!


do you have any thoughts on the subject? for example, what was historically or contemporarily wrong with my post?

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Re: Neo Marxist Fantasy

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Message 10 of 19

@MIseker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

Sorry for the delay on this topic, I assure you it was not my doing. Now, let's leave sighing about religion and get back to the issue..........

 

 

still a nice fantasy.  As i said, there is indeed a neo marxist ( aka cultural marxist ) school of thought. Yet, its impact today is complete fantasy  cooked up by the alt right.  Its a good boogeyman. Think Bill Orielly and his culture wars. Different name, but still a neo marxist fantasy. Currently Jordan Peterson, praeger university an a few other you tube stars push the theory. Too bad people by into the alt right theory that its applicale today and their method of fighting this ghost enemy by using hate, division, and selfishness. Too bad people that have bought into it spend so much time online pushing a fake issue. 

 

another good link to study..

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/19/cultural-marxism-a-uniting-theory-for-rightwin...

 

 

 any thoughts on what I posted or are you just going to quote Jason Wilson as he bounces around on  separate subjects?

 

 


 

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