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Honored Social Butterfly

NO UTILITY CEO IS AS STUPID AS OUR PRESIDENT

JOBS!!! JOBS!!!! JOBS!!!!

 

DUFUS TRUMP can scream that until he is blue in the face rather than his usual orange.

 

The economics of coal usage is actually the opposite of DUFUS TRUMP'S claims and intentions.

 

It takes approximately 6-8 years to build a coal fired energy producing facility at a cost of over 1.8 billion dollars.

 

No utility is going to bet that much time and money on something they know is an energy source that is on a downward trend of usage and is so controversial.

 

Yes, as long as this idiot pea brain is in the White House, the coal using utilities may have a reprieve; but they know that the next President might just as well be an staunch environmentalist.

 

They are not going to invest either the time or money on NEW facilities.

 

While the President is a total IDIOT; the heads of the utilities are not.

 

No spending = No jobs

 

ANOTHER DUFUS TRUMP LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO! IT'S CONSERVATIVES THAT ARE NUTTIER THAN SQUIRREL POOP!
Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:


Advances in technology certainly does exist and the "Imperial fiat" refers to unilateral actions by President Trump's predecessor.

 

I hope that clarifies things for you. 


 


Advances in technology are quite common. The coal industry has seen big advances in digging and transporting machines replacing hundreds of miners' jobs. 

Of course a law or regulation is a unilateral action. What else could it be?

 

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Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

 



Advances in technology certainly does exist and the "Imperial fiat" refers to unilateral actions by President Trump's predecessor.

 

I hope that clarifies things for you. 


 


"Imperial fiat" ??????   "Unilateral actions"? More Right Wing buzz words. Or perhaps you can be specific about what the "Imperial fiat" is? Perhaps you can specifically list the "unilateral actions" you speak of? Of course you can't.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 



Advances in technology certainly does exist and the "Imperial fiat" refers to unilateral actions by President Trump's predecessor.

 

I hope that clarifies things for you. 


 


"Imperial fiat" ??????   "Unilateral actions"? More Right Wing buzz words. Or perhaps you can be specific about what the "Imperial fiat" is? Perhaps you can specifically list the "unilateral actions" you speak of? Of course you can't.


Of course I can. As you well know they were the environmental rules that cost the coal miners their jobs. He promised to help them, he did, end of story. You can understand that without further clarification can't you?

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@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 



Advances in technology certainly does exist and the "Imperial fiat" refers to unilateral actions by President Trump's predecessor.

 

I hope that clarifies things for you. 


 


"Imperial fiat" ??????   "Unilateral actions"? More Right Wing buzz words. Or perhaps you can be specific about what the "Imperial fiat" is? Perhaps you can specifically list the "unilateral actions" you speak of? Of course you can't.


Of course I can. As you well know they were the environmental rules that cost the coal miners their jobs. He promised to help them, he did, end of story. You can understand that without further clarification can't you?


If you cannot or will not show the "environmental rules" and how they caused jobs loss in the coal industry then you are just making empty accusations. Show proof if you can. You can't or you already would have, it's that simple.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 



Advances in technology certainly does exist and the "Imperial fiat" refers to unilateral actions by President Trump's predecessor.

 

I hope that clarifies things for you. 


 


"Imperial fiat" ??????   "Unilateral actions"? More Right Wing buzz words. Or perhaps you can be specific about what the "Imperial fiat" is? Perhaps you can specifically list the "unilateral actions" you speak of? Of course you can't.


Of course I can. As you well know they were the environmental rules that cost the coal miners their jobs. He promised to help them, he did, end of story. You can understand that without further clarification can't you?


If you cannot or will not show the "environmental rules" and how they caused jobs loss in the coal industry then you are just making empty accusations. Show proof if you can. You can't or you already would have, it's that simple.


If there were no environmental rules placed by Obama and removed by Trump, what is all the whining about flat mountains and polluted air about? You've ridden this pony into the ground. I'ts about time to move on.

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Esteemed Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 



Advances in technology certainly does exist and the "Imperial fiat" refers to unilateral actions by President Trump's predecessor.

 

I hope that clarifies things for you. 


 


"Imperial fiat" ??????   "Unilateral actions"? More Right Wing buzz words. Or perhaps you can be specific about what the "Imperial fiat" is? Perhaps you can specifically list the "unilateral actions" you speak of? Of course you can't.


Of course I can. As you well know they were the environmental rules that cost the coal miners their jobs. He promised to help them, he did, end of story. You can understand that without further clarification can't you?


If you cannot or will not show the "environmental rules" and how they caused jobs loss in the coal industry then you are just making empty accusations. Show proof if you can. You can't or you already would have, it's that simple.


He can't, because it's all hyperbole that's been proven false over and over.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/aug/14/fact-checks-obama-coal-rules-carbon-poli...

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/aug/07/shelley-moore-capito/west-virginia-se...

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jun/02/john-boehner/Boehner-says-Obama-clima...

 

And there are more links on those pages to other articles panning out other GOP statements, and they're all either mostly false, or flat-out false.

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (13 pages of lies and growing)
Honored Social Butterfly


@BigLib wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 



Advances in technology certainly does exist and the "Imperial fiat" refers to unilateral actions by President Trump's predecessor.

 

I hope that clarifies things for you. 


 


"Imperial fiat" ??????   "Unilateral actions"? More Right Wing buzz words. Or perhaps you can be specific about what the "Imperial fiat" is? Perhaps you can specifically list the "unilateral actions" you speak of? Of course you can't.


Of course I can. As you well know they were the environmental rules that cost the coal miners their jobs. He promised to help them, he did, end of story. You can understand that without further clarification can't you?


If you cannot or will not show the "environmental rules" and how they caused jobs loss in the coal industry then you are just making empty accusations. Show proof if you can. You can't or you already would have, it's that simple.


He can't, because it's all hyperbole that's been proven false over and over.

 

Same answer - if jobs were not lost due to Obama's actions and brought back by Trump then the miners talking to both candidates were lying as were both candidates.

 

 

 


 

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Esteemed Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

@BigLib wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 



Advances in technology certainly does exist and the "Imperial fiat" refers to unilateral actions by President Trump's predecessor.

 

I hope that clarifies things for you. 


 


"Imperial fiat" ??????   "Unilateral actions"? More Right Wing buzz words. Or perhaps you can be specific about what the "Imperial fiat" is? Perhaps you can specifically list the "unilateral actions" you speak of? Of course you can't.


Of course I can. As you well know they were the environmental rules that cost the coal miners their jobs. He promised to help them, he did, end of story. You can understand that without further clarification can't you?


If you cannot or will not show the "environmental rules" and how they caused jobs loss in the coal industry then you are just making empty accusations. Show proof if you can. You can't or you already would have, it's that simple.


He can't, because it's all hyperbole that's been proven false over and over.

 

Same answer - if jobs were not lost due to Obama's actions and brought back by Trump then the miners talking to both candidates were lying as were both candidates.

 

 

 


 


Now why would anybody lie to get elected??

 

"Donald Trump's claim Monday that Michigan has lost 50,000 jobs due to President Obama's "war on coal" is inaccurate, based on federal and business data, as the state doesn't have any coal mines and the state's power industry employs less than half that amount."

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-trump-clash-over-who-is-calling-the-shots/article/2610516

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (13 pages of lies and growing)
Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

 

If the buggy whip is cracking due to advances in technology, I'm all for it.


Then you should support developing alternative energies, they are true advances in technology.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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Honored Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 

If the buggy whip is cracking due to advances in technology, I'm all for it.


Then you should support developing alternative energies, they are true advances in technology.


I do.

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Recognized Social Butterfly

Trump is handling himself and manhandling the country like the sorcerer's apprentice.

schlomo
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Honored Social Butterfly

Yes, the day will come when energy we receive from coal will be delivered by wind or tidal forces or something that no one outside the laboratory has yet thought of. It will occur because of the advancement in technology brought about by that nasty ol' profit motive, not the decree of an individual who thinks he is in total command of the nation or even more.

 

Think of the buggy whip industry - they eventually lost their jobs, as will the coal industry workers by the forces of the market.

Esteemed Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

It will occur because of the advancement in technology brought about by that nasty ol' profit motive


Being that fossil fuels are finite resources is a good motivator, too. Whether we run out or not within our individual lifetimes is irrelevant. And all it takes is a nasty ole war to cut people off from the resources they depend on from other countries.

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (13 pages of lies and growing)
Honored Social Butterfly


@BigLib wrote:

Being that fossil fuels are finite resources is a good motivator, too. Whether we run out or not within our individual lifetimes is irrelevant. And all it takes is a nasty ole war to cut people off from the resources they depend on from other countries.
Agreed. It being a finite resource pushes the private sector to find an alternative source of profit. It is that seeking of profit that provides us with our needs.

 

 


 

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@rk9152 wrote:
Agreed. It being a finite resource pushes the private sector to find an alternative source of profit. It is that seeking of profit that provides us with our needs.

Is it seeking an alternative source of profit, or the fact that sitting in the dark without electricity, in an unheated home, with a garage full of cars you can't drive, forever and ever, would suck. I'm pretty sure the latter would be the greater motivator.

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (13 pages of lies and growing)
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@BigLib wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:
Agreed. It being a finite resource pushes the private sector to find an alternative source of profit. It is that seeking of profit that provides us with our needs.

Is it seeking an alternative source of profit, or the fact that sitting in the dark without electricity, in an unheated home, with a garage full of cars you can't drive, forever and ever, would suck. I'm pretty sure the latter would be the greater motivator.

 

 


Think about that for a minute. Is it the person suffering the effects that creates the power or is it the person driven by that nasty old "profit motive"?

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@rk9152 wrote:

@BigLib wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:
Agreed. It being a finite resource pushes the private sector to find an alternative source of profit. It is that seeking of profit that provides us with our needs.

Is it seeking an alternative source of profit, or the fact that sitting in the dark without electricity, in an unheated home, with a garage full of cars you can't drive, forever and ever, would suck. I'm pretty sure the latter would be the greater motivator.

 

 


Think about that for a minute. Is it the person suffering the effects that creates the power or is it the person driven by that nasty old "profit motive"?


As the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention. Profit isn't even mentioned.

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (13 pages of lies and growing)
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Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

@BigLib wrote:

Being that fossil fuels are finite resources is a good motivator, too. Whether we run out or not within our individual lifetimes is irrelevant. And all it takes is a nasty ole war to cut people off from the resources they depend on from other countries.
Agreed. It being a finite resource pushes the private sector to find an alternative source of profit. It is that seeking of profit that provides us with our needs.

 

 


 


"Seeking a profit" is also what provides us with bank robberies and burglaries.  The profit is intended to reward entrepuneris for satisfying our needs.  Simply dumping raw sewage into our drinking water would generate great profits and dispose of our sewage but the health costs override the benefits so they are not allowed to profit (if we can catch them)

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@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@BigLib wrote:

Being that fossil fuels are finite resources is a good motivator, too. Whether we run out or not within our individual lifetimes is irrelevant. And all it takes is a nasty ole war to cut people off from the resources they depend on from other countries.
Agreed. It being a finite resource pushes the private sector to find an alternative source of profit. It is that seeking of profit that provides us with our needs.

 

 


 


"Seeking a profit" is also what provides us with bank robberies and burglaries.  The profit is intended to reward entrepuneris for satisfying our needs.  Simply dumping raw sewage into our drinking water would generate great profits and dispose of our sewage but the health costs override the benefits so they are not allowed to profit (if we can catch them)


You are aware that we are talking about the energy industry are you not. If you think you can get along without heat for your home, power for your car, even the power for your computer, fine - but I want the industry to flourish. I hope you understand that the power industry does not exist to rob banks, ruin the water supply, or create ill-health. Those are controllable side effects and does not in any way take from the value of the profit motive.

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@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@BigLib wrote:

Being that fossil fuels are finite resources is a good motivator, too. Whether we run out or not within our individual lifetimes is irrelevant. And all it takes is a nasty ole war to cut people off from the resources they depend on from other countries.
Agreed. It being a finite resource pushes the private sector to find an alternative source of profit. It is that seeking of profit that provides us with our needs.

 

 


 


"Seeking a profit" is also what provides us with bank robberies and burglaries.  The profit is intended to reward entrepuneris for satisfying our needs.  Simply dumping raw sewage into our drinking water would generate great profits and dispose of our sewage but the health costs override the benefits so they are not allowed to profit (if we can catch them)


I'm sure you already know he meant "within the law" but your distortion is noted!

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@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@BigLib wrote:

Being that fossil fuels are finite resources is a good motivator, too. Whether we run out or not within our individual lifetimes is irrelevant. And all it takes is a nasty ole war to cut people off from the resources they depend on from other countries.
Agreed. It being a finite resource pushes the private sector to find an alternative source of profit. It is that seeking of profit that provides us with our needs.

 

 


 


"Seeking a profit" is also what provides us with bank robberies and burglaries.  The profit is intended to reward entrepuneris for satisfying our needs.  Simply dumping raw sewage into our drinking water would generate great profits and dispose of our sewage but the health costs override the benefits so they are not allowed to profit (if we can catch them)


I'm sure you already know he meant "within the law" but your distortion is noted!


I understood he meant within the law.  Dumping "your" sewage in "my" drinking water may not be illegal but certainly would negate the value you provide society.

 

My point was that "profit" is a reward for those who satisfy the needs of society.  It is a driving force.  Mining companies are making profits but society has the right to set rules and those rules may impact your profits.  For society, profit is not the goal, satisfying needs is the goal.  Profit is just the mechanism by which society encourages individuals and companies to find (better) ways to satisfy those needs. 

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@Richva wrote:

 

For society, profit is not the goal, satisfying needs is the goal. 


And that is the point of my thread.

 

Utility Company CEO's have already recognized that the building of NEW coal fired plants would not be profitable; in fact, would be a losing venture.

 

At the same time, the coal available for our present coal fired plants is in plentiful supply so mining ADDITIONAL coal would satisfy NO need.

 

So DUFUS TRUMP'S actions regarding coal are those of an idiot who has no idea of the economics of the industry.

NO! IT'S CONSERVATIVES THAT ARE NUTTIER THAN SQUIRREL POOP!
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@nctarheel wrote:

@Richva wrote:

 

For society, profit is not the goal, satisfying needs is the goal. 


And that is the point of my thread.

 

If we remove "profit", what is the driving force to satisfy the needs of society? Other models have been tried and failed. Yet some seem nostalgic for them.

 

Or is it just some pleasure derived from typing "DUFUS (doofus??)TRUMP"?

 

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@rk9152 wrote:

Yes, the day will come when energy we receive from coal will be delivered by wind or tidal forces or something that no one outside the laboratory has yet thought of. It will occur because of the advancement in technology brought about by that nasty ol' profit motive, not the decree of an individual who thinks he is in total command of the nation or even more.

 

Think of the buggy whip industry - they eventually lost their jobs, as will the coal industry workers by the forces of the market.


Surprised by your post. RK

no name
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@Roxanna35 wrote:


Surprised by your post. RK

Any particular aspect you'd like to discuss? This is not the first time I have expressed that thought.


 

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Honored Social Butterfly

From Fortune Magazine and the Huffington post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/01/04/solar-power_n_13961296.html

 http://fortune.com/2015/10/06/wind-cheap-coal-gas/

Apparently coal is not that much cheaper than wind or solar.  please read article by Fortune magazine in 2017

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Honored Social Butterfly

FYI-67% of all electicity comes from fossil fuels and coal makes up 33% of the total electricity produced.

 

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

Recognized Social Butterfly


@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

FYI-67% of all electicity comes from fossil fuels and coal makes up 33% of the total electricity produced.

 

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3


The reason opening more coal reserves will not result in more coal jobs is because coal use is in decline.  In 2000 51.4% (page 1, middle of the 2nd paragraph on the link below) of electrity was generated by coal, as your link pointed out, it was 33% in 2015, with more coal plant closures already announced.  The cost of generating power by coal vs other methods (natural gas, wind, etc) means that is very doubtful that any new coal plants will be built, thus demand for coal will continue to decrease and why opening more coal reserves will not autmatically generate more jobs.

 

https://www.eia.gov/coal/review/pdf/feature00.pdf

Honored Social Butterfly

I heard something today that makes a lot of sense. Tillerson, would have made a better President than Trump. and the reason as to why is the fact that he has been a CEO of a Corporation. that has had many people on the board, and all other restrains that a public corporations has. and that he needed to know and deal with as their CEO.

Trump has never been in that position, therefore, he has never dealt with people that don't agree with him and that he cannot fire.

That is his biggest weakness.

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