Mueller Charges 12 Russian Intelligence Officers with Hacking the Democrats during the 2016 election

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Re: Mueller Charges 12 Russian Intelligence Officers with Hacking the Democrats during the 2016 elec

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Message 11 of 220

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

Our association here had gone back to when he first started posting years ago.

 

 


Yep, back when you displayed good sense.


Democrats in 2020
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Re: Mueller Charges 12 Russian Intelligence Officers with Hacking the Democrats during the 2016 elec

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Message 12 of 220

@MaVolta wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

Okay, speaking as a moderate, I'll give it a go.

 

Point 1. True about the left being sceptical of law enforcement and overreach, and to some degree they still are. But what happened to the other party that always, always, stood up for law enforcement and intelligence gathering services? The majority of those agencies have always been R's because of that support. R's never had a problem funding those agencies either, especially after 9/11. So what happened to that party? The Never Trump R's (now mostly independents) want to know?

I don't see the relationship between funding and Never Trumpers and the left's 180.

The turnabout on the left probably has more to do with the 180 taken by Trump R's on the right. They are diametrically opposed. Never Trumpers, however, still hold law enforcement and intelligence agencies in high regard.

 

Point 2. I don't see why the timing of the indictments is suspicious, regardless of one's opinion of President Trump. Rosenstein informed the president before his trip, and apparently he had no objection or concerns about it, according to staff. If anything, it should have given him a stronger hand to play against Putin. He had the evidence and complete backing of the American intel community, to put Putin on formal notice that we knew what he did and exactly how/when he did it, and the people he used to commit these crimes. It should have been advantage Trump. What happened? Why can't he process that Russian conspiracy and Russian collusion are two separate issues? He has declared himself vindicated of the later, so why doesn't he focus on the former?

I was not privy to the Trump/Rosenstein discussions. But his main point was that they will never stand trail so what is the point?

Oh, but they can!! Spies have often been tried and convicted in absentia. I do hope they proceed to do so. 

 

Point 3. True, that's a fair assessment of most liberals. Personally, I've made it clear that I do not like his policies, or how he acts, or how he treats our allies, or most people, for that matter. I certainly and most strongly disapprove of everything that happened in the Monday press conference. Whether it was out of complete ignorance and his overwhelming ego, or whether he's compromised, or both, I don't really know. I do believe that we will have a better idea once Mueller submits his report to Congress. I believe that work should go unhampered, without R's in Congress continually running interference for the president, for whatever their reason or agenda.

What do you think is important - meddling or tying the President to the cyber warfare that has been going on for many years?

Getting to the truth is what is important. Period. 

 

Truth about what? 

 


 

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Re: Mueller Charges 12 Russian Intelligence Officers with Hacking the Democrats during the 2016 elec

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Message 13 of 220

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

Okay, speaking as a moderate, I'll give it a go.

 

Point 1. True about the left being sceptical of law enforcement and overreach, and to some degree they still are. But what happened to the other party that always, always, stood up for law enforcement and intelligence gathering services? The majority of those agencies have always been R's because of that support. R's never had a problem funding those agencies either, especially after 9/11. So what happened to that party? The Never Trump R's (now mostly independents) want to know?

I don't see the relationship between funding and Never Trumpers and the left's 180.

The turnabout on the left probably has more to do with the 180 taken by Trump R's on the right. They are diametrically opposed. Never Trumpers, however, still hold law enforcement and intelligence agencies in high regard.

 

Point 2. I don't see why the timing of the indictments is suspicious, regardless of one's opinion of President Trump. Rosenstein informed the president before his trip, and apparently he had no objection or concerns about it, according to staff. If anything, it should have given him a stronger hand to play against Putin. He had the evidence and complete backing of the American intel community, to put Putin on formal notice that we knew what he did and exactly how/when he did it, and the people he used to commit these crimes. It should have been advantage Trump. What happened? Why can't he process that Russian conspiracy and Russian collusion are two separate issues? He has declared himself vindicated of the later, so why doesn't he focus on the former?

I was not privy to the Trump/Rosenstein discussions. But his main point was that they will never stand trail so what is the point?

Oh, but they can!! Spies have often been tried and convicted in absentia. I do hope they proceed to do so. 

 

Point 3. True, that's a fair assessment of most liberals. Personally, I've made it clear that I do not like his policies, or how he acts, or how he treats our allies, or most people, for that matter. I certainly and most strongly disapprove of everything that happened in the Monday press conference. Whether it was out of complete ignorance and his overwhelming ego, or whether he's compromised, or both, I don't really know. I do believe that we will have a better idea once Mueller submits his report to Congress. I believe that work should go unhampered, without R's in Congress continually running interference for the president, for whatever their reason or agenda.

What do you think is important - meddling or tying the President to the cyber warfare that has been going on for many years?

Getting to the truth is what is important. Period. 

 

"Music can change the world because it can change people." - Bono
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Re: Mueller Charges 12 Russian Intelligence Officers with Hacking the Democrats during the 2016 elec

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Message 14 of 220

@MaVolta wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

NPR had an interesting discussion this morning about the indictment of  the Russians. Three basic themes came out:

1. For years the left has been distrustful of the intel community (yellow cake, WMDs, etc.) but now it seems like they can do no wrong and their proclamations are accepted without question;

2. A guy said he had no use for President Trump but took a very pragmatic approach - what is the point of the indictments and the interesting timing of their release? The individuals will never stand trial;

3. A woman caller took an approach very, familiar to anyone on these boards. She went off on what a disgrace Trump is, what an embarrassment to the country he is, and on and on and eventually tried to say that these indictments proved it.


Okay, speaking as a moderate, I'll give it a go.

 

Point 1. True about the left being sceptical of law enforcement and overreach, and to some degree they still are. But what happened to the other party that always, always, stood up for law enforcement and intelligence gathering services? The majority of those agencies have always been R's because of that support. R's never had a problem funding those agencies either, especially after 9/11. So what happened to that party? The Never Trump R's (now mostly independents) want to know?

I don't see the relationship between funding and Never Trumpers and the left's 180.

 

Point 2. I don't see why the timing of the indictments is suspicious, regardless of one's opinion of President Trump. Rosenstein informed the president before his trip, and apparently he had no objection or concerns about it, according to staff. If anything, it should have given him a stronger hand to play against Putin. He had the evidence and complete backing of the American intel community, to put Putin on formal notice that we knew what he did and exactly how/when he did it, and the people he used to commit these crimes. It should have been advantage Trump. What happened? Why can't he process that Russian conspiracy and Russian collusion are two separate issues? He has declared himself vindicated of the later, so why doesn't he focus on the former?

I was not privy to the Trump/Rosenstein discussions. But his main point was that they will never stand trail so what is the point?

 

Point 3. True, that's a fair assessment of most liberals. Personally, I've made it clear that I do not like his policies, or how he acts, or how he treats our allies, or most people, for that matter. I certainly and most strongly disapprove of everything that happened in the Monday press conference. Whether it was out of complete ignorance and his overwhelming ego, or whether he's compromised, or both, I don't really know. I do believe that we will have a better idea once Mueller submits his report to Congress. I believe that work should go unhampered, without R's in Congress continually running interference for the president, for whatever their reason or agenda.

What do you think is important - meddling or tying the President to the cyber warfare that has been going on for many years?

 

 


 

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Message 15 of 220

@rk9152 wrote:

NPR had an interesting discussion this morning about the indictment of  the Russians. Three basic themes came out:

1. For years the left has been distrustful of the intel community (yellow cake, WMDs, etc.) but now it seems like they can do no wrong and their proclamations are accepted without question;

2. A guy said he had no use for President Trump but took a very pragmatic approach - what is the point of the indictments and the interesting timing of their release? The individuals will never stand trial;

3. A woman caller took an approach very, familiar to anyone on these boards. She went off on what a disgrace Trump is, what an embarrassment to the country he is, and on and on and eventually tried to say that these indictments proved it.


Okay, speaking as a moderate, I'll give it a go.

 

Point 1. True about the left being sceptical of law enforcement and overreach, and to some degree they still are. But what happened to the other party that always, always, stood up for law enforcement and intelligence gathering services? The majority of those agencies have always been R's because of that support. R's never had a problem funding those agencies either, especially after 9/11. So what happened to that party? The Never Trump R's (now mostly independents) want to know?

 

Point 2. I don't see why the timing of the indictments is suspicious, regardless of one's opinion of President Trump. Rosenstein informed the president before his trip, and apparently he had no objection or concerns about it, according to staff. If anything, it should have given him a stronger hand to play against Putin. He had the evidence and complete backing of the American intel community, to put Putin on formal notice that we knew what he did and exactly how/when he did it, and the people he used to commit these crimes. It should have been advantage Trump. What happened? Why can't he process that Russian conspiracy and Russian collusion are two separate issues? He has declared himself vindicated of the later, so why doesn't he focus on the former?

 

Point 3. True, that's a fair assessment of most liberals. Personally, I've made it clear that I do not like his policies, or how he acts, or how he treats our allies, or most people, for that matter. I certainly and most strongly disapprove of everything that happened in the Monday press conference. Whether it was out of complete ignorance and his overwhelming ego, or whether he's compromised, or both, I don't really know. I do believe that we will have a better idea once Mueller submits his report to Congress. I believe that work should go unhampered, without R's in Congress continually running interference for the president, for whatever their reason or agenda.

 

 

"Music can change the world because it can change people." - Bono
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Message 16 of 220

NPR had an interesting discussion this morning about the indictment of  the Russians. Three basic themes came out:

1. For years the left has been distrustful of the intel community (yellow cake, WMDs, etc.) but now it seems like they can do no wrong and their proclamations are accepted without question;

2. A guy said he had no use for President Trump but took a very pragmatic approach - what is the point of the indictments and the interesting timing of their release? The individuals will never stand trial;

3. A woman caller took an approach very, familiar to anyone on these boards. She went off on what a disgrace Trump is, what an embarrassment to the country he is, and on and on and eventually tried to say that these indictments proved it.

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Re: Mueller Charges 12 Russian Intelligence Officers with Hacking the Democrats during the 2016 elec

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Message 17 of 220

@CriticalThinking wrote:

MaVolta asked a very good question. 

@CriticalThinking - You know, sometimes I doubt the "collusion" aspect of all this. Rather, maybe Trump's ignorance is only exceeded by his huge ego. He got played like a fine tuned violin, and Putin directed the orchestra.

 

MaVolta, it's certainly a viable possiblity. Only Mueller and his team know the answer to that question. Is Trump simply the dumbest U.S. President ever who's ruled by his massive ego? Or, as I suspect, the answer to your question is possibly BOTH. I think the above is obviously true but I'm hoping Mueller proves Trump and his flunkies committed a number of crimes along the way.


Yes, both are certainly possible! And there's also the element of "compromising material" in the hands of the Russians. Some analysts believe that it has to do with Trump's past financial dealings in Russia. All three could be true.

"Music can change the world because it can change people." - Bono
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Message 18 of 220

Was anyone else, besides me, surprised by Trump using the term "captive of Russia" days before he was to meet with Putin?

 

What has Rosenstein's sabotaging of the meeting to do with "captive of Russia"?

 

I didn't say it did. To me, using the term "captive of Russia" implied Russia is a foe, which surprised me that he would move in that direction right before he was to have a meeting with Putin. Although, when Trump used the word "foe" he later clarified it meaning "competitor". 

You weren't surprised, with all this talk of Trump and Putin being so chummy, that he would warn Germany to be careful of Russia, and don't allow yourself to be "captive"?

It surprised me.

Maybe Trump was informed (or enlightened) by intelligence to be careful of Russia. They may have presented him with more evidence, which we later found out included the new indictments.

 

I said: It appears Trump was blind-sided by Rosenstein's announcements, but Trump didn't seem to show much emotion or surprise, either. Hmmm...

 

Shortly after I posted that, someone informed me that "Rosenstein stated that he briefed Trump on the coming indictments".

 

Is anyone curious as to how long ago Team Mueller had this information on Mariia Butina and the 12 Russians? Someone said they were worried she would flee the country. But there was certainly no flight risk of the 12 Russians.

 

Interesting -- Butina is charged with failing to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, an allegation the Justice Department also has made against Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort.

 

If I was to take a wild guess, maybe there's a connection between the Russians indicted and/or the Russian woman Mariia Butina with Paul Manafort. Some sort of link, maybe. Manafort's trial is coming up in about a week, so maybe there is an urgency by the Justice Department here.

 

 

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Re: Mueller Charges 12 Russian Intelligence Officers with Hacking the Democrats during the 2016 elec

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Message 19 of 220

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

 


Very good - an entire post dealing with attacking the alleged intents and motivations of posters and attempting to impugn what you allege are their motivations - instead of staying on the topic of the 12 charged Russian Intelligence Officers...

 


Perhaps you should speak about yourself? 


Nope - but the amusing comic relief derpitude in the content of your answering post is appreciated...

 

 

44>dolt45
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Message 20 of 220

@alferdpacker wrote:

 


Very good - an entire post dealing with attacking the alleged intents and motivations of posters and attempting to impugn what you allege are their motivations - instead of staying on the topic of the 12 charged Russian Intelligence Officers...

 


Perhaps you should speak about yourself? 


“Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”. . . FDR
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