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Honored Social Butterfly

Moron Blames Blue States


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Honored Social Butterfly

FACTS and LOGIC are not part of Trump World, so let's return to the subject of this thread.

 

RED states depend on BLUE states for their financial survival. BLUE states have a much higher level of education, they are far more productive, they have better jobs, and they provide the financial foundation for America's economy.

Honored Social Butterfly

@CriticalThinking wouldn’t the argument against a flat tax mean that the well to do and wealthy would have to actually pay a set amount. No longer could they play with the figures in order to pay a lesser percentage of taxes than those in the earning brackets below them...of course they don’t want to pay their fair share...when they can have their taxes paid by those in the lower brackets. 

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Honored Social Butterfly

William, that's why in my FLAT TAX system, the wealthy pay a larger percentage of their incomes than low or middle income families. 

 

For example, a family with a gross income of $50,000 would pay only 5%, which is $2,500. 

However, a family earning $500,000 would pay lets' say 12%  of their income. That would come to around (doing this in my head) $60,000 in taxes. They would keep $440,000.

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Honored Social Butterfly

As I stated earlier, Trump Cult members cannot think for themselves. Here's proof:

 

" A flat tax means a fixed percent for all - that's it!"

 

I'm LOL. Trump Cult members plow straight ahead and are incapable of flexibility, thinking, and keeping an open mind to new ideas. A flat tax simply means one pays a percentage of their gross income, which is very different than the current U.S. System. There are no deductions, no complex forms to fill out, and it eliminates the overwhelming majority of tax fraud, which is derived from the vast array of IRS tax deductions.

 

Just because the system I described changes the percentage based upon one's gross income, doesn't change the fact that it's a FLAT TAX. I'm still LOL.

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly
Honored Social Butterfly

Back to the topic, it's not about taxes.

 

Trump has blamed the Blue states for COVID deaths, yet another of his thousands of lies. Many believe tRump's propaganda, which is exactly what his lies are, make no mistake about it. Trump is about division and he is dependent upon people believing his lies to accomplish that. Too bad that a portion of our electorate is stupid enough to take tRump';s lies at face value, not doing the research to disprove trump's lies.

 

Centrist, thank you for this posting to help debunk tRump's lie.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

Trump supporters cannot think for themselves. They are told how to think, and then they come here to regurgitate what they are told. You don't even have to watch FOX because they will tell you every day what they were told by Fox.

 

In the system I described, every one pays a flat percentage of their gross income. That is a FLAT TAX system. 

 

Just because everyone doesn't pay the same exact percentage, does not mean it isn't a flat tax system. That is, unless you are a Trump supporter, and you are told how to think. 

  • There are no deductions
  • That means most tax fraud schemes are eliminated
  • Nobody else gets a deduction you didn't receive
  • You can figure out your balance due in less than 2 minutes.

America, if you can think for yourself, this is the way to go. Let's replace our horrific, unfair, overly complex, tax system with one where everybody can complete their return in minutes.

Honored Social Butterfly

Some heads are thicker than rocks.  A flat tax means a fixed percent for all - that's it!

 

You can't convince some far lefties because their way is the only way even when proved wrong!

 

Say no to Joe!

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Honored Social Butterfly


@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Some heads are thicker than rocks.  A flat tax means a fixed percent for all - that's it!

 

You can't convince some far lefties because their way is the only way even when proved wrong!

 

Say no to Joe!


What about tRump's lies about Blue states being responsible for Covid deaths?


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

What about tRump's lies about Blue states being responsible for Covid deaths?

 

I don't know about Trump telling lies about blue states being responsible for Covid deaths but I do have first hand knowledge about NY state (very blue).  Governor Cuomo gave orders to send Covid patients to the nursing homes and assisted living facilities instead of the (Trump supplied) Javits Center or the Navy supplied medical ship .  This caused over 6,000 deaths so maybe Trump has something!

 

https://abc7ny.com/nursing-home-deaths-cuomo-criticized-in-new-york/6168676/

 

Say no to Joe!

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Honored Social Butterfly

Some people, Trump Supporters, cannot think outside the box. They were told a FLAT TAX is one in which everyone pays the same percentage. Hello! They have no imagination. We can still have a FLAT TAX system where the percentage one pays on their gross income rises with their income. 

 

But in the end, despite what Not Happening believes, what I proposed is a FLAT TAX. The following will happen in this system

  • A myriad of deductions will disappear
  • Fraud will be eliminated in most cases because those deductions no longer exist
  • The system will be much fairer because nobody can get a deduction you didn't receive
  • Here's the best part, taxpayers can figure out their balance due in less than 2 minutes.
Honored Social Butterfly

They were told a FLAT TAX is one in which everyone pays the same percentage

 

That's what it is.  Look up "flat tax".  You are the one that can't think outside the box.  Look, read, think!  You can't make up a different definition every time you post!

 

Say no to Joe!

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Honored Social Butterfly

Gail, a FLAT TAX is a Flat Tax. One has to step outside the concepts of myriad deductions we currently have which make the tax code incredibly complex and unfair. The concept of a flat tax eliminates the kinds of deductions you mentioned. 

 

The two areas where I would make an exception for SENIORS are:

  • Social Security Income should be Tax Free
  • Pensions Benefits under let's say $50,000, would also be tax free.
Honored Social Butterfly

Gail, a FLAT TAX is a Flat Tax.

 

No, you have described a (bad) progressive tax system!

 

A flat-tax system is one in which everyone pays the same rate, regardless of income. Although proponents suggest that flat taxes would simplify the tax system and make both payment and enforcement easier, flat taxes generally reduce the proportional tax burden of high-income earners while increasing it on low-income earners. While the U.S. federal tax system is progressive, meaning that a worker’s income is taxed according to her level of income, some states have flat taxes on income as well.

 

https://www.bankrate.com/glossary/f/flat-tax/

 

Say no to Joe!

Honored Social Butterfly

Gail, why are you locked into that definition of a flat tax? I gave ;you a modified version where everyone doesn't pay the same percentage of their income. Do you think it's fair that someone earning $50,000 and a millionaire pays the same percentage of their income?

 

And look at all the benefits I described?

  • It makes it incredibly easy on people to do their tax returns. It should take 2 minutes for the calculation.
  • It completely eliminates the complexity of tax deductions
  • It eliminates the double standards of tax deductions. Nobody else is getting a tax deduction I didn't receive.
  • It virtually eliminates the possibility of FRAUD reference tax deductions
  • It ensures everyone in the brackets I described pays income tax

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

Chasky, gross income is the total of all income earned by the taxpayer. 

 

Did you see all the benefits I outlined? 

 

How could anyone prefer the overly complex, unfair system we have no which is rife with corruption, illegal returns, and double standards?

Honored Social Butterfly


@CriticalThinking wrote:

Chasky, gross income is the total of all income earned by the taxpayer. 

 

Did you see all the benefits I outlined? 

 

How could anyone prefer the overly complex, unfair system we have no which is rife with corruption, illegal returns, and double standards?


Am I to understand from this post that you are talking about tax codes rather than rates - cause your rate argument doesn't work.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@CriticalThinking wrote:

Chasky, gross income is the total of all income earned by the taxpayer. 

 

Did you see all the benefits I outlined? 

 

How could anyone prefer the overly complex, unfair system we have no which is rife with corruption, illegal returns, and double standards?


Perhaps you're not understanding what I posted. "Gross income" does not include interest, business profits, earnings on stocks increasing in value, or anything else taxed as capital gains.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:

@CriticalThinking wrote:

Chasky, gross income is the total of all income earned by the taxpayer. 

 

Did you see all the benefits I outlined? 

 

How could anyone prefer the overly complex, unfair system we have no which is rife with corruption, illegal returns, and double standards?


Perhaps you're not understanding what I posted. "Gross income" does not include interest, business profits, earnings on stocks increasing in value, or anything else taxed as capital gains.


Speaking from a tax point

As a general rule, "gross" means all of something. Gross income refers to an individual's entire income from all sources -- wages, self-employment, bonuses, dividends, etc. Net income is the number that matters for tax purposes, and refers to your income after adjustments, deductions, and credits are subtracted from your gross income.

read more :

Motley Fool - Taxes: Net Amount vs. Gross Amount - Explaining different measurements of income used ... 

 

Sure would be simpler,  if you two - @ChasKy53 & @CriticalThinking  would just come out and say what you mean -

  • Should people be able to deduct deferred retirement contributions (IRA / 401K, etc.)
  • Should people be able to deduct ( just lumping them all together here) Schedule A deductions?
  • If a person buys a stock at $ 1000, holds onto it, dies, and passes it on to their heir with the market value of the stock being $ 5000 on the day they die and that heir sells it a few years later to pay for education expenses or buy a house for $ 10,000 - on what figure should they be taxed???
  • what about real estate buys and sells
  • what about real property being passed along to heirs?

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

The only way I could possibly agree to a progressive flat tax as described is if it were applied to all  'earnings' as opposed to just 'income'.

 

'Earnings' includes payroll income, profits, and all things covered under capital gains taxes. 


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:

The only way I could possibly agree to a progressive flat tax as described is if it were applied to all  'earnings' as opposed to just 'income'.

 

'Earnings' includes payroll income, profits, and all things covered under capital gains taxes. 


WHAT the heck is a "progressive flat tax"? ????    Like what CriticalThinking described? 

Doesn't matter what is included - earning / income - the numbers do not work. 

Government categorizes types of income and taxes them in different ways for the same reason that the government has special tax codes written for various things - It is the way government entices us to do something that they want us to do - 

Government only has (2) ways to motivate us to do something they want us to do - with either incentives or with punishments.

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly


@GailL1 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

The only way I could possibly agree to a progressive flat tax as described is if it were applied to all  'earnings' as opposed to just 'income'.

 

'Earnings' includes payroll income, profits, and all things covered under capital gains taxes. 


WHAT the heck is a "progressive flat tax"? ????    Like what CriticalThinking described? 

Doesn't matter what is included - earning / income - the numbers do not work. 

Government categorizes types of income and taxes them in different ways for the same reason that the government has special tax codes written for various things - It is the way government entices us to do something that they want us to do - 

Government only has (2) ways to motivate us to do something they want us to do - with either incentives or with punishments.

 

 


Let's not argue semantics anymore.  Yes, the definition of a "flat tax" is all people paying the exact same tax rate.

 

What Critical suggests has been suggested by many over the last couple of decades, all a bit different, but with the same ideas. I saw one flat tax proposal with 10 brackets, increasing percentages in each bracket, making it truly progressive.

 

The best proposal I have seen called for a change in how all earnings are taxed, it was called an "Earnings Tax".  "Earnings" includes income (as defined by what falls under present income taxes), profits, and all capital gains. No write-offs or deductions and the rates were bracketed and progressive, higher rates in each ascending bracket.. IMHO, it was the fairest that I have seen.

 

Tax rates aren't the only thing that needs addressed, it is also the tax codes. What I described addresses both, it virtually does a way with the codes.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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Honored Social Butterfly

Gail, I'm not sure why you always get hung up on trivial details. I think what I described is very clear and easy to understand. The Flat Tax benefits I described above are huge for Americans. Instead of getting hung up on terminology, why don't you tell us if you agree or disagree with me?

Honored Social Butterfly


@CriticalThinking wrote:

Gail, I'm not sure why you always get hung up on trivial details. I think what I described is very clear and easy to understand. The Flat Tax benefits I described above are huge for Americans. Instead of getting hung up on terminology, why don't you tell us if you agree or disagree with me?


I am not hung up on anything but the actual numbers - You give me some actual numbers like I did you with your premise.

Again from Investopedia - definition

FLAT TAX:  A flat tax system applies the same tax rate to every taxpayer regardless of income bracket. 

 

 

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

Gail, you are completely missing the point of why I prefer the FLAT TAX system described earlier. Instead of getting hung up on, and focusing on, the term progressive, a flat tax system, which encompasses elements of a progressive system, is a hybrid which does the following:

  • It makes it incredibly easy on people to do their tax returns. It should take 2 minutes for the calculation.
  • It completely eliminates the complexity of tax deductions
  • It eliminates the double standards of tax deductions. Nobody else is getting a tax deduction I didn't receive.
  • It virtually eliminates the possibility of FRAUD reference tax deductions
  • It ensures everyone in the brackets I described pays income tax

There are more benefits, but I think the above is enough for now.

Honored Social Butterfly


@CriticalThinking wrote:

Gail, you are completely missing the point of why I prefer the FLAT TAX system described earlier. Instead of getting hung up on, and focusing on, the term progressive, a flat tax system, which encompasses elements of a progressive system, is a hybrid which does the following:

  • It makes it incredibly easy on people to do their tax returns. It should take 2 minutes for the calculation.
  • It completely eliminates the complexity of tax deductions
  • It eliminates the double standards of tax deductions. Nobody else is getting a tax deduction I didn't receive.
  • It virtually eliminates the possibility of FRAUD reference tax deductions
  • It ensures everyone in the brackets I described pays income tax

There are more benefits, but I think the above is enough for now.


You can simple prove your concept with numbers but alas, you can't - cause numbers don't lie.

Somehow I get the sense that you are talking about the tax CODE rather than the tax RATE (Progressive or FLAT).

If that is what you are talking about . . . . TAX CODE . . . . let's discuss that because your rate argument is WAY off the mark.. 

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Honored Social Butterfly

There is one other point I forgot to make in my last example. The numbers I posted in my previous post were also simple illustrations we could easily calculate them in our heads. If I had the time and/or energy, I could make the gross income brackets smaller than $25,000 and the increments 1% instead of 2%. But we don't need to get that detailed and/or deep in the AARP Forum.

 

It is an excellent FLAT TAX system where everyone could do their tax return calculations in less than 2 minutes. And those earning smaller amounts would pay a lower percentage than high income earners.

Honored Social Butterfly


@CriticalThinking wrote:

There is one other point I forgot to make in my last example. The numbers I posted in my previous post were also simple illustrations we could easily calculate them in our heads. If I had the time and/or energy, I could make the gross income brackets smaller than $25,000 and the increments 1% instead of 2%. But we don't need to get that detailed and/or deep in the AARP Forum.

 

It is an excellent FLAT TAX system where everyone could do their tax return calculations in less than 2 minutes. And those earning smaller amounts would pay a lower percentage than high income earners.


Then just look at our current progressive tax system - you can just pull the 2020 tax table.

The % and the cut offs don't matter - IT IS PROGRESSIVE IN NATURE - just like we have now.

 

The only way to do a 2 minute return on a post card is say

Here's my income and here is the FLAT TAX rate = Amount of tax.

Those who earn more will ALWAYS pay more - that the nature of a FLAT TAX;  the more your earn; the more you pay in tax. 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

NOT HAPPENING is wrong!

The numbers I proposed were only illustrations with easy to read and understand round numbers. The goal was to make it easy to that anyone could understand the concept. I thought that was obvious, but when dealing with Trump Cult members, nothing is obvious.

In a real world example, the cutoffs between tax rates and actual percentages would be much closer. For example:

  • Those earning more than $50,000 but less than $75,000 would pay 5% of their gross income.
  • Those earning more than $75,000 but less than $100,000 would pay 7% of their gross income
  • Those earning more than $100,000 but less than $125,000 would pay 9% of their gross income
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