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Honored Social Butterfly

Millions More Lose Health Insurance

Number of people who lost their health insurance during the pandemic -- 16.2 million.


Number of seniors (65 +) who lost their health insurance during the pandemic -- Zero (0).


We’ve seen this before.


During the last big recession, researchers at Cornell University found that 9.3 million Americans lost their health insurance between 2007 and 2009. Why? As people lost work, their employer-provided insurance went away. During this time, roughly six in 10 Americans who lost their jobs became uninsured.

 

And this problem compounds itself.

 

If the reason you lost your health insurance is that you no longer have steady employment, how are you now going to be able to afford monthly premiums for some other private health care plan?


Millions of Americans are expected to lose their health coverage because they received it through their employer-sponsored plan. In the United States, unlike any other major country in the world, when you lose your job, you lose your health care. That is absurd.


Before the coronavirus pandemic, 87 million were uninsured or underinsured while one out of five people struggled to afford obscenely priced prescription drugs.


Each year, more than 500,000 families declared bankruptcy and 30,000 people died because they couldn’t get the care they needed.

The situation is far more dire now.
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  • Do we really want to continue spending twice as much per capita for health care as any other country while our social outcomes — life expectancy, infant mortality, maternal deaths — lag behind many of them?
  • Do we really want to continue with a system that is designed to boost its own profits while millions of Americans struggle to get the care they need?
  • Do we really want to continue the current cruel system that ties health care to our jobs, leaving us without health care when we are unemployed and most vulnerable?
  • Do we really want to continue the complicated, wasteful and bureaucratic system that requires an absurd amount of paperwork to determine how much of our deductible we’ve paid, how much of our procedure is covered by our plan, and whether we saw a doctor in the correct "network"?
  • Do we really want to continue having a grossly unfair system where medical and nursing school graduates, facing crippling amounts of student debt, tend to go to communities where they can make the most money, rather than the locations where they are needed most?

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

FACT ............... If we had Medicare for All or a similar national health care plan, no one would have lost their health care options when this pandemic hit and so many lost their jobs.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

Joe Biden's pledge: "If you like your health care plan, your employer-based plan, you can keep it." 

 

The above statement was true for most Americans on Obamacare. Gordy keeps attacking Biden in his attempt to get Trump re-elected, but the above statement is not a negative on Biden or Obama. The statement needs to be explained.  

 

Both Obama and Biden made the same statement because of a flawed assumption. Obamacare created a new set of minimum standards for health plans. They assumed everyone would want a health plan that complied with the new and better standards. They were wrong, but that was an honest mistake.  

 

It turned out that a very tiny percentage of Americans wanted to keep their SUBSTANDARD Health Plans. Who knows why? The estimates I saw were between 2 and 3% of Americans wanted their old, outdated plans. They eventually changed the law to essentially grandfather in those substandard health plans.  

 

This is the kind of mistake I can live with. Both Obama and Biden were trying to raise the standards of health care in America. It's not their fault that some people wanted a substandard health insurance plan.

Honored Social Butterfly

CriticalThinking:   Both Obama and Biden made the same statement because of a flawed assumption. Obamacare created a new set of minimum standards for health plans. They assumed everyone would want a health plan that complied with the new and better standards. They were wrong, but that was an honest mistake.  

 

 

That lie is still being repeated a decade after it was born and it's not going away no matter how patiently or often we explain why it's bogus.

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Honored Social Butterfly

What would MFA actually look like?

 

Well, the total cost of health care would go way down because there's be no "uninsured" so providers would not have to factor in all those VERY expensive uncompensated ER visits nor would they have to waste billions dealing with hundreds of SLIGHTLY different payment schedules.

 

There's no need to abolish the Insurance companies, they could still maintain coverage for their clients, but there would be only one payment schedule for services, which the Government would pay and then collect from the Insurance company. The individual would never have to worry about being sued for their medical bills or not getting the coverage promised in their policies.The companies could not raise their premiums or decrease the coverage during the year.

 

Honored Social Butterfly

What do you do if you're out of work AND your insurance company denies your claim for a medical procedure?

 

ACA Plans Denied Nearly 1 in 5 In-Network Claims in 2017


Feb. 27, 2019


For most products, you can assume you’ll get what you pay for.

 

If you go to the store to buy a bicycle and bring it to the cashier and hand over the money, you get your bicycle. You don’t pretend that the store did you some big favor. You got poorer, the store got richer -- and in return, you got something. This is commerce.
And yet, there is one industry that is not held to this universal concept of transactions: private health insurance.
In America, a system of denied claims, wait times, paperwork and bureaucratic red tape has worn us down, and made us now presume that we won’t necessarily get the health care coverage that we buy. Indeed, just look at data from the Affordable Care Act marketplaces:


 ⦁ Affordable Care Act marketplace plans denied 19% of claims submitted for in-network service in 2017.


 ⦁ Only 0.5% of those denied claims were appealed, according to a new Kaiser Family Foundation report.


 ⦁ Only about 200,000 of the almost 43 million denied claims were appealed.


https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/aca-plans-denied-nearly-1-in-5-in-network-claims-in-2017/549312/

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

Bad support article as it is from 2017 and that was at the start of Trump wrecking the ACA. He has had a few more years of wrecking under his belt now so it is a lot worse now, and if his court case wins there will be no ACA, and just wait. You will see millions more loose Insurance, and more junk medical policies being sold, and more claims being denied.

You change this by making sure Trump is not President this time next year.

What is strange to me is that Trump supporters bring this up as they are responsible for it since they voted for Trump or a 3rd party person in the last election, and are telling us they will do the same this election.

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Honored Social Butterfly

Bad support article as it is from 2017 and that was at the start of Trump wrecking the ACA.

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The article is from 2019.

 

The "data" was from the year 2017. That was the first year of the Trump administration.

 

There was a lot of "talk" about repealing Obamacare, but it didn't happen.

 

Trump and the Republicans repealed the "Individual Mandate" at the end of 2018, which became effective in 2019. So, that doesn't reflect on the data from 2017 -- 1 in 5 denied coverage.

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

Bad support article. It was published in 2019  but is about 2017. Trump has been changing the the ACA since the day he took office. He does it by rule changes which need no approval from congress. He has done most of his damage that way. Trump has really just about repealed the ACA that way.

We are all going to see rates go sky high shortly due to Trump. The pre EX will be back in full force since the rule changes make it necessary if rates are not going to be so high no one can afford it. Rule changes to Medicaid have been as bad, and will force higher costs on everyone.

 

If you want better health care you do not support Trump or any Reb. in Nov. You support the Dems whether you agree 100% with them or not. You also do not support any far left Dem on a national level as that helps Trump. If you want good  health care for all it will be done through the ACA as that is the only way you can do it. In the end you will have a single payer system like medicare over 65, Medicaid for all the rest except the VA and IHS will still  be here, and guess what we will all save money as it will be cheaper. The word premium might disappear and be replaced by the word Tax which would be paid by all of us, and a tax on business. Yes the tax could be structured by income.

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Honored Social Butterfly

What would MFA actually look like?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

With the right leadership it would look like this...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ1lPPTPSR4

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

And you are telling us Trump is the right leadership and that is why you support him.

Honored Social Butterfly

And you are telling us Trump is the right leadership and that is why you support him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

U.S. politics is now discussed far more as tests of tribal loyalty (“whose side are you on?”) than actual ideological or even political beliefs (“which policies do you favor or oppose”?).

 

Roughly 40% of eligible voters don't vote. Talking to some of those "non-voters" I have sensed a degree of apathy. Neither party is looking out for them. Generally speaking, I have to agree with them.

 

Many of you are aware of the Princeton Study. According to the study, if the majority of the American people are for a particular policy, it has a 30% chance of passing Congress. If the majority are against a policy, it still has only a 30% chance of passing. 

However, this only applies to the bottom 90%. The top 10% get what they want. Why? Money talks in US politics.

 

I was listening to NPR in my car a few weeks ago. They said the industry that donates the most money to politicians' campaigns was Wall Street. The health insurance industry was #2. Why do these industries spend millions upon millions of dollars during elections? Political influence. Control.

 

Allowing corporate money and big money interests to influence our elections results in a dysfunctional, complex and costly healthcare system where today 137 million Americans are struggling with medical debt.
"Medical debt is the top reason that people, regardless of age, would consider cashing in their 401(k)s or other retirement savings" TD Ameritrade found.
Separate research published this year found that 66.5% of all personal bankruptcies are tied to medical issues.

 

  • Do we really want to continue spending twice as much per capita for health care as any other country while our social outcomes — life expectancy, infant mortality, maternal deaths — lag behind many of them?
  • Do we really want to continue with a system that is designed to boost its own profits while millions of Americans struggle to get the care they need?
  • Do we really want to continue the current cruel system that ties health care to our jobs, leaving us without health care when we are most vulnerable?

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

John258 wrote:

 

And you are telling us Trump is the right leadership and that is why you support him.

**************************************************************************************************

Of course the answer would be NO.

 

Denigrating others with false statements or assumptions does nothing but cause more division. Way to go!


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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Honored Social Butterfly

27 million Americans lost their medical insurance when their jobs went away.   12.7 million will be eligible for  Medicare and 8.4 million may be eligible for subsidized rates under Obamacare.  So we will have 21 million (tops) on some form of socialized medicine and 6 million uninsured.   I assume this was part of Trump's MAGA plan, right?

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/13/politics/health-insurance-uninsured-unemployed-covid-kaiser/index.htm... 

Honored Social Butterfly

Joe Biden's pledge: "If you like your health care plan, your employer-based plan, you can keep it."


I don't think Biden will be using those talking points throughout the rest of the 2020 campaign.
I knew that was not true from the moment Biden uttered those words.
Immediately I thought about people who lose their jobs will lose their employer health insurance. I wasn't thinking of pandemic level of unemployment, but I knew recessions happen. They happen often enough. And we can't rule out another Great Recession or even a Depression.


I used COBRA once when I left my job, but it only lasted six months and was very expensive. Luckily, I had money in the bank to help pay for the monthly premiums. Millions of people aren't so lucky.


More than half of the American people have their healthcare tied to their employer.


The last company I worked for would change their employer health insurance plan every year. Every single year.
The employees would thumb through the booklet to see if their doctor or their hospital was still in the company plan or network. Some were disappointed. It would still be a poor plan with many out of pocket expenses and the in-network became tighter and tighter. I assume it was the "Obamacare Bronze Plan".


So, Biden's pledge "If you like your healthcare plan...you can keep it" doesn't hold true.


Biden's scare tactic: Under Medicare for All proposals, "Medicare as you know it goes away. It's gone."


I don't think Biden will be using those talking points anymore either, as Americans are favoring Medicare for All.


A new poll showing nearly 90 percent approval among Democratic voters for Medicare for All has stirred fresh calls for Joe Biden to end his outdated opposition to the healthcare solution that would cover all Americans at less overall cost than the current, more wasteful for-profit system.


Biden's Hostility to Medicare for All 'No Longer a Tenable Position'.


https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/04/25/poll-shows-nearly-90-democratic-support-biden-told-host...


4/24/2020 -- The Hill: 69% Support Medicare for All:

 

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Up to 43 million Americans could lose health insurance amid pandemic, report says.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/10/us-health-insurance-layoffs-coronavirus

 

Number of Americans who lost their health insurance during the pandemic -- 27 million.


Number of Seniors (65 +) who have lost their health insurance during the pandemic -- Zero (0).


Number of Canadians who have lost their health insurance during the pandemic -- Zero (0).

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

gordy:

Why are you trying to now blame Biden for what Trump has done. It is Trump who gutted the ACA, and is in court now trying to kill it in total. Even a lot of Trumps own  advisors have told him to drop his court suit. Yes the virus has shown once again we need changes in our health care payment system, and Trump has shown once again he could care less. Trump follows what a former Gov. of Ga. said: Let them Die in the streets."

Biden has told us what he would do to solve the current problem by using the ACA after ending the damage Trump has done. He would use the public option to do that by adding it back to the current ACA. That was in the current ACA when Obama proposed it, but the Reb. killed it. This country has now a health care for all type system just go to the ER and you will be treated. We see that in operation everyday with the virus.

You were a Bernie supporter, and now you support Trump totally, and now seem to be doing everything you can to support Trump. How can someone who believed in Bernie and his programs now support someone who opposed everything Bernie stood for?

Here is a message to all. If all Bernie supporters are now Trump supporters the job of ending Dictator Trump has become harder, and all thinking people will have to work harder to end Trump.

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Honored Social Butterfly

November 2013 Reuters article.    IN REVIEW ---
" The Senate Finance Committee held meetings from June to September 2009 to develop the health care reform bill, ( the ACA)     according to the finance committee's website.   Present at those meetings were Democratic senators Max Baucus, Jeff Bingaman and Kent Conrad and Republican senators Mike Enzi, Chuck Grassley and Olympia Snowe, but there is no single author of the bill.     It was a collaboration of Senate Democrats and Republicans, members of the House of Representatives, the late Sen. Edward M. Kennedy and other interested parties, indicates Jonathan Cohn of New Republic.   Orin Hatch sat in  on some meetings.  "


There is no point in knocking BIDEN for supporting healthcare in the past or present.   The point is also the ACA wasn't meant to be the final solution....no one promised that.  

 

My opinion the prime  reason the republicans are against the ACA is that their party actually started calling it OBAMACARE....and now they regret the association.    They do not want the democrats to get credit for anything and in particular something so important as healthcare reform.   That's why in the 1990's  First Lady  Hillary Clinton wanted congress to discuss healthcare reform and the republicans refused....exactly for the reason they didn't want Clinton democrats to get credit.        .   

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

In just two weeks, the number of Americans estimated to have lost their health insurance as a result of the coronavirus pandemic grew by nearly four million, according to the Economic Policy Institute.


As New Republic deputy editor Katie McDonough tweeted, the Covid-19 pandemic has illustrated with each passing week that the U.S. must expand Medicare to all Americans—"like yesterday."


The uninsurance crisis resulting from mass job losses, wrote Sarah Jones at New York magazine, should serve as a death knell for one of the most frequently-deployed, industry-approved talking points against Medicare for All—that the current for-profit health insurance system free to "make decisions" about their own healthcare.
"As the pandemic clarifies, choice means little in the context of healthcare," Jones wrote. "A person's ability to keep an insurance plan they like already depended on the choices their employer makes—or, in the case of Covid-19, on massive forces outside an employer's control. So while Americans may like their employer-provided coverage when they have it, contra Obama, they can't always keep it. That vulnerability simply becomes more pronounced during times of national economic distress."


https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/05/14/we-need-single-payer-yesterday-medicare-all-case-made-1...

 

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