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Re: Mexico As A Safe Third County

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@GailL1 wrote:

@mickstuder

 

You are quoting me when I was responding to retiredtraveler about the OAS (Organization of American States) and their inadequacies all the way around but specifically in this instance of the crime conditions in these countries, their reaction or lack thereof to the asylum seekers from their OWN member states.

Notice I said "governmentS" - this comment had nothing to do with the USA.

 

Although in fairness, when discussing the same thing with rker321 a couple post below the one made by retiredtraveler, I did wonder why the USA was still a member of the OAS.

 

Let's me put it this way - my post in starting this thread is about ideas of how asylum seeking especially those coming from these countries could be better and who (other countries) could help in this problem. I wasn't discussing Trump or any other person, only us as a nation.

 

Do you know what a Safe Third Nation agreement is ?

It was initially an EU asylum plan - then we adopted an agreement with Canada in 2002 - effective in 2004.

 

Canadian Government - Canada / US Safe Third Country Agreement

 


Again - this IS what you posted - if it's true - then it should apply to Trump and the GOP and the way they run OUR Government - Poorly

 

"Seems government's should be better at determining what works and what doesn't - Isn't that where government shines - ideas, planning, creating the steps for success - putting it to work and making adjustments along the way.

 

Anybody with any intelligence can write up a good spill - it is actions that produce results and success in whatever goals have been set.

 

Am I a Cherry-picker - yup - irrelevant!

 

Safe Third Nations - Sure Trifecta - Threesome - Triple Play...........................I get it - I also understand Canada & Mexico are as different as you and I

 

1. First, there is the question of whether Mexico could even be labeled a safe country, given its own security and human rights challenges. Homicides have soared in recent years, with more than 25,000 murder cases opened in 2017—the most of any year since Mexico began publishing data in 1997. The violence has not only changed Mexicans’ lives at home but also has pushed thousands of people to seek asylum in the United States. In 2016 alone, 12,800 Mexicans filed applications (the second-highest number, after El Salvador). It is hard to see how the U.S. government can formally recognize a country as safe while thousands of its citizens are filing asylum claims in U.S. courts.

 

2. Second, Mexico’s system for processing refugee-status claims is not prepared to receive an increase in asylum applications. COMAR, the Mexican agency tasked with processing such claims, received 14,596 applications in 2017—the highest number on record for a single year. To process these applications, the agency relied on only 28 officers and a budget of around $20 million Mexican pesos (that’s just $1.07 million in U.S. dollars). The lack of personnel and resources have created a backlog:  More than half of the 2017 applications are still not resolved. By comparison, the United States received more than 100,000 asylum applications last fiscal year. While a safe-third-country agreement with Mexico would not affect all of these U.S. asylum cases, some would surely be shifted to Mexico—overwhelming an already-strained system. This would also put Mexico at risk of not being able to fulfill its own refugee-protection obligations and, subsequently, its ability to serve as a safe third country.

 

3. Third, if the proposed agreement looks anything like the U.S.-Canada agreement, it would likely contain various exceptions. The U.S.-Canada agreement includes exemptions for unaccompanied minors (in accordance with the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child), asylum-seekers who have a family member legally in the United States, and asylum-seekers holding a valid U.S. visa. If officials use this accord as a blueprint for a U.S.-Mexico agreement, these exceptions could ultimately constitute a significant portion of the overall asylum cases presented, as unaccompanied children alone accounted for 19 percent of Central Americans arriving at the U.S.-Mexico border in fiscal 2017. During the first year of the U.S.-Canada agreement, roughly 75 percent of asylum seekers at the shared border qualified for one of the agreement’s exemptions.

 

These carve-outs would generate bureaucratic challenges in a U.S.-Mexico context. Migration officials in both countries would need to determine both the validity of asylum claims and the appropriate country in which to make those claims. What’s more, the United States would likely need to secure additional changes to be able to deport Central Americans back to Mexico to seek asylum.

 

No matter how the United States spins it, it is hard to see how a safe-third-country agreement with Mexico would help to streamline or improve current processes or alleviate regional migratory pressures. The Trump administration’s promotion of such an agreement is not framed around burden sharing or addressing root causes but more narrowly focused on moving a significant portion of asylum decisions south of the U.S. border. Other facets of U.S. policy for addressing Central American migration—such as the Alliance for Prosperity, which provides economic and security assistance to Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador—have sought to bring in Mexico as a partner. But the Trump administration’s language surrounding the recent safe-third-country proposals has notably not incorporated this idea of working together on a shared challenge.

 

Source - https://www.lawfareblog.com/safe-third-country-agreement-mexico-wont-fix-us-migratory-challenges

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Mexico As A Safe Third County

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The Canadian Government estimates there are somewhere between 20,000 and 200,000 undocumented workers in Canada. the main reason they have a max of 200,000 and we have around 11,000,000 is explained by one simple fact:

In Canada, employing an undocumented worker can get the empolyer 2 years in prison and a $50,000 fine for each offense.

 

They come here for WORK, and they work very hard for very little, which makes them an attractive laborforce for Republicans who have prevented passing of any laws such as those mentioned above in Canada, and insure little to no enforcement of laws Democrats have been able to pass.

 

Don't want millions of hard working honest people because that group harbors a few thousand professional criminals? Prosecute the ones who hire them, like Reagan wanted to do, but was prevented from doing by the GOPerLords who like cheap, compliant labor.

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Re: Mexico As A Safe Third County

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Message 3 of 19

Mexico, Uruguay and Argentina have always been pretty opposed to the US.

We do have to remember that the US was known in many Latin American countries by the United Fruit and its influence in many of the Latin American countries.

We seem to have forgotten how Latin America has always viewed the US. and in many cases and in many countries they were correct.

Mexico in my personal view, has never forgotten that they lost  a lot of land that they considered always as theirs to the US.

Frankly, I have always stated that instead of fighting for those lands they simply have  populated  it.  LOL

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Re: Mexico As A Safe Third County

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Message 4 of 19

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@GailL1 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=24030


All I can say is that my friend lives in Panjachel Solola Guatamala and has for many years.  Their home is gated; they purchased it that way. She tells me that she exerts cautions where she lives like she would in any urban environment.  

They have never been victims of crime there but were when they lived here.


Anecdotal fallacy.

 

Plus, I really doubt the people fleeing can afford to live in a gated community.


Having visited gated communities in a number of Countries I can tell you they are mostly wealthy living there, and fenced with security patrols. They are made that way for security of the people living there so they can remain in the country or serve residents from other countries living in a country for business reasons.

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Re: Mexico As A Safe Third County

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Message 5 of 19

@mickstuder wrote:

I used to Live in Gloucester Ma. - big Fish Processing Port - a Boat from Iceland would come into Port and I'd pick some of the Crew up and take to a Bar and then to my house for a all-night Party - No Border Check Point - No CBP - No Customs - Nothing - in fact when I would drop them back at the Boat it was right after we stopped at the Local Liquor Store so they could stock up



You might be surprised that there was control on these crews.  The boat captain is required to notify the port authorities with the names of his crew and anything they are bringing into the country that needs to be declared.  They are to be accounted for on the boat's departure.

 

 

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Re: Mexico As A Safe Third County

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Message 6 of 19

@GailL1 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=24030


All I can say is that my friend lives in Panjachel Solola Guatamala and has for many years.  Their home is gated; they purchased it that way. She tells me that she exerts cautions where she lives like she would in any urban environment.  

They have never been victims of crime there but were when they lived here.


Anecdotal fallacy.

 

Plus, I really doubt the people fleeing can afford to live in a gated community.

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Re: Mexico As A Safe Third County

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Message 7 of 19

@GailL1 wrote:

@mickstuder

 

You are quoting me when I was responding to retiredtraveler about the OAS (Organization of American States) and their inadequacies all the way around but specifically in this instance of the crime conditions in these countries, their reaction or lack thereof to the asylum seekers from their OWN member states.

Notice I said "governmentS" - this comment had nothing to do with the USA.

 

Although in fairness, when discussing the same thing with rker321 a couple post below the one made by retiredtraveler, I did wonder why the USA was still a member of the OAS.

 

Let's me put it this way - my post in starting this thread is about ideas of how asylum seeking especially those coming from these countries could be better and who (other countries) could help in this problem. I wasn't discussing Trump or any other person, only us as a nation.

 

Do you know what a Safe Third Nation agreement is ?

It was initially an EU asylum plan - then we adopted an agreement with Canada in 2002 - effective in 2004.

 

Canadian Government - Canada / US Safe Third Country Agreement

 


The border is no different now than it was for a number of years. The difference now is Trump and his followers want no no one coming in from other than countries like Norway (Trump word). Why? Looks like race and religion play a big part in that. Far right see people of some races and religions as Dem. voters and that is why we see the efforts to depress votes in GA, FL, MS, AL, and other far right states by far right rep. That is now starting to fail so they attack the border in hopes that can save them in their efforts to recreate a form of slavery again. I live in a border state, and Hispanics are a large part of our residents. I see Mexican plates on cars all the time at our shopping malls etc. I live with them as neighbors, and also Native Americans, Black and it is great. There is travel back and forth across the border. Cities like El Paso Texas would not exist if not for the cross border traffic. One school dist. in the southern part of our state runs school busies to to border point of entry every day to pick up kids who live in Mexico and go to school in the US. One of the border students was President of the Senior high school class. They run van service from places in my state to Mexico for people to go for Medical, and dental services, plus get their medicines. In Texas at one border site you can go to an eating place in Mexico and bypass all border crossing reg. by using a special road turnoff to the US parking lot. I have eaten there. They say there are at least 2 million US living in Mexico. There are towns in Mexico made up of just about all Americans. The person who cut my hair for years had family living in one, and he went there all the time. He said fishing was great. His people were farmers who left the US years ago from Utah. Romneys grand father or great grandfather came from one of those towns. There is a Native American Reservation that straddles the border. People living there move back and forth freely.

This  thread is nothing but the far right trying to preserve their dominance in some parts of the US at the expense of others.

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Re: Mexico As A Safe Third County

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Message 8 of 19

@mickstuder

 

You are quoting me when I was responding to retiredtraveler about the OAS (Organization of American States) and their inadequacies all the way around but specifically in this instance of the crime conditions in these countries, their reaction or lack thereof to the asylum seekers from their OWN member states.

Notice I said "governmentS" - this comment had nothing to do with the USA.

 

Although in fairness, when discussing the same thing with rker321 a couple post below the one made by retiredtraveler, I did wonder why the USA was still a member of the OAS.

 

Let's me put it this way - my post in starting this thread is about ideas of how asylum seeking especially those coming from these countries could be better and who (other countries) could help in this problem. I wasn't discussing Trump or any other person, only us as a nation.

 

Do you know what a Safe Third Nation agreement is ?

It was initially an EU asylum plan - then we adopted an agreement with Canada in 2002 - effective in 2004.

 

Canadian Government - Canada / US Safe Third Country Agreement

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: Mexico As A Safe Third County

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Message 9 of 19

@ManicProgressive wrote:

https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=24030


All I can say is that my friend lives in Panjachel Solola Guatamala and has for many years.  Their home is gated; they purchased it that way. She tells me that she exerts cautions where she lives like she would in any urban environment.  

They have never been victims of crime there but were when they lived here.

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: Mexico As A Safe Third County

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Message 10 of 19

@GailL1 wrote:

@mickstuder

 

I said nothing about the US building a border wall in this post.

 

Try applying for asylum in Canada - especially if entering from the US

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/campaigns/irregular-border-crossings-asylu...

 

Georgia does legislate the mandatory use of the E-Verify system for all employers with over 25 employees - One of the only states that does this - but the law is only as good as the employers giving these undocumented a job regardless of the wages they pay them because government cannot be everywhere.

 

I wish these folks had an easier, more efficient way of becoming here.

We Seem to have a pretty good refugee process but with asylum seekers, it is hit or miss even without the current Administrations tough policies.

it seems to me that perhaps this group seeking asylum here could begin the process in their own country and gather the proof they need to back up their claim so that we could be ready for the ones that are approved for asylum.

This whole asylum seeking process for this group does nothing but cause them grief because many are never approved.

 

 


Sure you did - you said the following about  Trump & the Republican Majority Controlled US Federal Government

 

"Seems government's should be better at determining what works and what doesn't - Isn't that where government shines - ideas, planning, creating the steps for success - putting it to work and making adjustments along the way.

 

Anybody with any intelligence can write up a good spill - it is actions that produce results and success in whatever goals have been set.

 

This organization of governments seems to have lost their way."

 

The Organization of our US Government lost it's way when Voters thought Trump & a GOP Controlled Federal Government was a good idea

 

Trump who for right now for all intents & purposes because Congress has abdicated their Constitutional Responsibility is our Government - his only solution to both Immigration & Asylum is a WALL

 

So yeah - spin it anyway you want - again Trump & your Republicans have controlled the US Government for 2 years - all together - all any of them can propose to solve all Immigration Problems is a Wall & Cages

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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