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Treasured Social Butterfly
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Re: Men, Women and Sexual Harassment

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Message 11 of 27

Why  is anyone so surprised as to the attitude from our Sexual Harasser in Chief?
Who is really naive to expect that our sexual harasser in Chief would actually criticize another like himself?
Please, start by getting real and try to smell the roses. 
and women, keep it up, defending men that may in the future be your daughters's attackers, and then try to answer as to why you put your moral values below your political party.

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Re: Men, Women and Sexual Harassment

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Message 12 of 27

@ReTiReD51 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

Generally I am not a fan of the daily kos but that piece is beautifully written and hits the nail on the head.

 

Thanks snoop.


 

Since you’re a Jake Trapper fan here’s another story. This one too is beautifully written and hits the nail perfectly dead center on the head.

 

“Trapper runs through Trump sexual harassment accusers: ‘People in glass White Houses shouldn’t throw stones”

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/360956-tapper-runs-through-trump-sexual-harassment-accusers-people...


Nothing in that. Just a CNN dude being a CNN dude.

 

Snoop's post was about the everyday men and women going through life and really is a "thought piece".

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Re: Men, Women and Sexual Harassment

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Message 13 of 27

I am very blessed to have met my present wife in 1982. I asked her out within days of meeting her and she answered;   "Heck no I won't go out with you, you're on the rebound and you are 8 years older than me. But I do like you and I really hope that we can be friends".  I was 30 years old and she was 22.

 

In retrospect, I had never been just 'friends' with a woman. I continued to take other women out and I would talk with my new woman friend about them and how a relationship with them just wasn't going to work. I went from woman to woman and was getting disgusted. This had went on for at least 6 years or more when I decided that I was going to stop my quest for a life-long mate and remain single. I shared this information with my new friend and told her that she was happy being single, along with my sister who had never married, and by gosh, it should work for me. Our friendship had became genuine, and she had actually became my very best friend, in retrospect I realize that she taught me how to be friends with a woman, a priceless gift which I have cherished for many years.

 

Because of my wife and how we met, and the things that she unknowingly taught me, I have made and maintain very good friendships with hundreds of women. I cherish each and every one. I treat women as friends and not someone that I would be interested in having any other kind of relationship with, lest it be professional.

 

IMHO, too many men simply don't treat women as friends or just as 'people', and they 'get out of line'. I hope that when they do they get what they deserve.

 

I hope that society is becoming 'enlighted' and that changes come, but I would hate to be a woman waiting for those changes to happen.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Men, Women and Sexual Harassment

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Message 14 of 27

@Snoopy48 wrote:

As has been said the sexual harassment ‘line’ is not a firm, hard line but somewhat depends on the woman. Some women will accept more actions without feeling harassed than others. So true, Snoopy.  Part of the problem in my always humble opinion is that men are expected to know where that line is with each woman.  And as I said before, many men are challenged by the subtle nuances.  Add to that, societal norms have been that men are supposed to initiate the first contact or first kiss.  Now, before I get beat-up over that comment, please understand I know this is far from the old definition of sexual harrassment, but I'm referring to the "new" line we're discussing.

 

In that light, the one woman needs to feel free to speak up and let the man know that they crossed the line. And, more importantly, the man needs to listen and  watch for indications and remember what others may feel constitutes harassment.  Agree.  And women should eliminate the coy sexual teasing that some employ to get attention at the work place.  (and no, I'm not excusing men's behavior.  I'm pointing out it's a two way street.)

 

Since some may accept more actions and words without feeling harassed than others the line drawn by the man needs to be at the most sensitive until they are comfortable with the line drawn by the person they are interacting with. Also, remember in a business setting you are seldom only interacting with the person in front of you. Good points.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Men, Women and Sexual Harassment

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Message 15 of 27

@rk9152 wrote:

Generally I am not a fan of the daily kos but that piece is beautifully written and hits the nail on the head.

 

Thanks snoop.


 

Since you’re a Jake Trapper fan here’s another story. This one too is beautifully written and hits the nail perfectly dead center on the head.

 

“Trapper runs through Trump sexual harassment accusers: ‘People in glass White Houses shouldn’t throw stones”

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/360956-tapper-runs-through-trump-sexual-harassment-accusers-people...

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Re: Men, Women and Sexual Harassment

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Message 16 of 27

@Epster wrote:

@Centristsin2010  Great question about the fixed line. I don't know yet what I think. Smiley Happy I'm not being evasive, just thinking my response will depend upon what the collective we decides upon, should we decide upon a fixed line.

 

Off hand I don't know a movable line will work best because as a species we tend to need our political fences. Nevertheless I'd vote for wider, deeper, more developed and more automatic emotional intelligence for all, as I see the issue largely as one of limited social graces/self-awareness and social acuity ... but, but, but ... how's that movable line gonna work? As you note, what one sees as sexual harassment another may not. Ugh, argh, yuck. Let's keep talking. Maybe we can collectively find that line.

 

Body language: Yes! But for all.

 

Subtlety: Yeah, I know. (That's MY story and I'M sticking to it. Smiley Happy)

 

Catcalling: It took me quite a few years to stop flipping men off in reaction to that. Smiley Happy I still think **bleep** ... I just don't let that thought out in any way anymore. Better? To a degree. I mean emotions and thoughts aren't the problem with abuse. It is when we lose control of those things that we risk becoming an abuser. I think. Yet by not letting men lnow I find that offensive, I am letting them slip past a teachable moment. Tough call. Smiley Happy

 

Over-the-top self confidence and borderline illegal (!) moxie: this is what happens when you toss an A-type with the Guardian-Protector (ISFJ) personality to the wolves during the formative years. Hahahahahahahah. Ahem. Smiley Happy

 

You go, girl: Meh, I  don't know I've ever heard that used in an offensive manner. Do I like being called a girl by men? Not in a professional setting, no. Meanwhile I cannot imagine ever feeling slighted by a woman calling me girl, even in an office setting. I think because that's an insider using an insidrr's term: she is telling me that she gets it. We are bonding; we understand; we've both been there; we are sisters. Solidarity is never offensive, at least not in my book. So there's a view of that gossamer line in the shifting sands. Smiley Happy

 

I'm sorry that you have been sexually harassed. That stinks. Truly. I'm also sorry that you have been accused, presumably wrongly. That stinks to high heaven. Absolutely. (I think a necessary part of this convo will be the part where we decide that ALL false accusers and their lawyers get the book thrown at them. (I'm not clear on what punishment I want, but I'm leaning toward tar and feathering right now...) Their side circus is making it more difficult for the rest of us to talk openly about and to see clearly the gossamer lines we seek to delineate.

 

Like you, I'm ready for this convo. I say, "America, roll up yer sleeves, let's get to it!" 

 

 


Thought you might find this amusing...

 

Adult Wednesday Addams: Wednesday vs. Catcallers [S2, Ep 3] - YouTube

 

 

44>dolt45
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Re: Men, Women and Sexual Harassment

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Message 17 of 27

As has been said the sexual harassment ‘line’ is not a firm, hard line but somewhat depends on the woman. Some women will accept more actions without feeling harassed than others.

 

In that light, the one woman needs to feel free to speak up and let the man know that they crossed the line. And, more importantly, the man needs to listen and  watch for indications and remember what others may feel constitutes harassment.

 

Since some may accept more actions and words without feeling harassed than others the line drawn by the man needs to be at the most sensitive until they are comfortable with the line drawn by the person they are interacting with. Also, remember in a business setting you are seldom only interacting with the person in front of you.

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Re: Men, Women and Sexual Harassment

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Message 18 of 27

I totally agree that we need some clear rules and definations of what classifies as harassment.  I'm not even clear on it myself.  I'm thrilled that the discussion is becoming so public and so many women are talking about things that happened to them years ago.  This includes me.

 

With that being said, I'm so sad that things don't seem to have changed in this area as much as I would have hoped.  I think part of the confusion comes from the fact that girls are taught such things as "when the little boy pulls your hair it means he likes you".  I remember being told that at the age of 8.  In that case it seemed to be true and he gave me a very nice Christmas present.  But he shouldn't have been taught that pulling my hair was a sign of affection and I should not have been taught to accept it.

 

It gets even more confusing for us females.  I had no problem knowing it was harassment  when I worked for an attorney as a part time secretary while in college and I had to make certain to keep the desk between us.  In the end I left the best paying part time job I had because of that.  I also knew it was harassment when I was subjected to wolf whistles and cat calls from a crew of workmen while crossing a downtown street.  It's more difficult when it comes from a friend or a co-worker.  Then it's supposed to fall back in the classification of the hair pulling.

 

Then I remember how funny everyone thought it was when all the clowns from the Shrine Circus hit our cafeteria when I was in college and began to molest the girls standing in the lunch line.  I don't think it was funny to us.  I know it wasn't to me being touched in places where I wouldn't allow a date to touch until we knew each other a lot better.  Yet if we objected we were bad sports with no sense of humor and the clowns put on an even bigger show of surprise and sadness, complete with tears that could be aimed at interesting places.

 

I don't think any man can truly understand what a woman is subjected to as an everyday part of life with the underlying message that we are somehow supposed to like and even feel in some way honored by such attention.

 

I hope with the "Me too" movement  everyone will begin to understand, males and females alike.

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Re: Men, Women and Sexual Harassment

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Message 19 of 27

@Centristsin2010  Great question about the fixed line. I don't know yet what I think. Smiley Happy I'm not being evasive, just thinking my response will depend upon what the collective we decides upon, should we decide upon a fixed line.

 

Off hand I don't know a movable line will work best because as a species we tend to need our political fences. Nevertheless I'd vote for wider, deeper, more developed and more automatic emotional intelligence for all, as I see the issue largely as one of limited social graces/self-awareness and social acuity ... but, but, but ... how's that movable line gonna work? As you note, what one sees as sexual harassment another may not. Ugh, argh, yuck. Let's keep talking. Maybe we can collectively find that line.

 

Body language: Yes! But for all.

 

Subtlety: Yeah, I know. (That's MY story and I'M sticking to it. Smiley Happy)

 

Catcalling: It took me quite a few years to stop flipping men off in reaction to that. Smiley Happy I still think **bleep** ... I just don't let that thought out in any way anymore. Better? To a degree. I mean emotions and thoughts aren't the problem with abuse. It is when we lose control of those things that we risk becoming an abuser. I think. Yet by not letting men lnow I find that offensive, I am letting them slip past a teachable moment. Tough call. Smiley Happy

 

Over-the-top self confidence and borderline illegal (!) moxie: this is what happens when you toss an A-type with the Guardian-Protector (ISFJ) personality to the wolves during the formative years. Hahahahahahahah. Ahem. Smiley Happy

 

You go, girl: Meh, I  don't know I've ever heard that used in an offensive manner. Do I like being called a girl by men? Not in a professional setting, no. Meanwhile I cannot imagine ever feeling slighted by a woman calling me girl, even in an office setting. I think because that's an insider using an insidrr's term: she is telling me that she gets it. We are bonding; we understand; we've both been there; we are sisters. Solidarity is never offensive, at least not in my book. So there's a view of that gossamer line in the shifting sands. Smiley Happy

 

I'm sorry that you have been sexually harassed. That stinks. Truly. I'm also sorry that you have been accused, presumably wrongly. That stinks to high heaven. Absolutely. (I think a necessary part of this convo will be the part where we decide that ALL false accusers and their lawyers get the book thrown at them. (I'm not clear on what punishment I want, but I'm leaning toward tar and feathering right now...) Their side circus is making it more difficult for the rest of us to talk openly about and to see clearly the gossamer lines we seek to delineate.

 

Like you, I'm ready for this convo. I say, "America, roll up yer sleeves, let's get to it!" 

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: Men, Women and Sexual Harassment

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Message 20 of 27

Generally I am not a fan of the daily kos but that piece is beautifully written and hits the nail on the head.

 

Thanks snoop.

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