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Message 1 of 48

@alotofgrey wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


How are the poor going to pay for it when they currently cannot afford insurance? 

 

The same way the poor in the other 35 developed countries pay for their health insurance, a pay check deduction.

 

No Medicaid spending but the money would still be spent but under another name. So, no savings there.

 

Medicaid is for people that have no health insurance. No uninsured means NO Medicaid.

 

When the government takes over the healthcare system, I think that is a pretty good definition of "Socialized Medicine". And let's not play the game of, "No, they will not control it, they will only pay for it". That is unrealistic.

 

Our healthcare system is "For Profit". Medicare For All will not change that. However, it will make it more profitable by eliminating our uninsured and our government Medicaid spending.

 

What is wrong with leaving things be as they are but expanding Medicaid for the poor - the main objective here.

 

That is not the objective.

Our uninsured are making all of that not sustainable. Because of them the cost  of health insurance, medical products, and medical services in this country are the highest of any country on this planet. There presence is making that worse.


The objective is to get rid of our uninsured problem.That Republican Obamacare program was supposed to end it. It did not and will not. Medicare For All will.

 

We (includes you) know that  because each of the other 35 developed countries used a similar nonoptional government health insurance program to get rid of their uninsured.

 

The issue is how do we get rid of  our uninsured. It can be done. The other developed countries have done it.


Yes, that would deal with the uninsured aspect. But what about people who do not have food - shall we have a government "food for all" program? And then there is housing - and  clothing.

 

What is wrong with expanding Medicaid for the poor?

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Message 2 of 48

@rk9152 wrote:


How are the poor going to pay for it when they currently cannot afford insurance? 

 

The same way the poor in the other 35 developed countries pay for their health insurance, a pay check deduction.

 

No Medicaid spending but the money would still be spent but under another name. So, no savings there.

 

Medicaid is for people that have no health insurance. No uninsured means NO Medicaid.

 

When the government takes over the healthcare system, I think that is a pretty good definition of "Socialized Medicine". And let's not play the game of, "No, they will not control it, they will only pay for it". That is unrealistic.

 

Our healthcare system is "For Profit". Medicare For All will not change that. However, it will make it more profitable by eliminating our uninsured and our government Medicaid spending.

 

What is wrong with leaving things be as they are but expanding Medicaid for the poor - the main objective here.

 

That is not the objective.

Our uninsured are making all of that not sustainable. Because of them the cost  of health insurance, medical products, and medical services in this country are the highest of any country on this planet. There presence is making that worse.


The objective is to get rid of our uninsured problem.That Republican Obamacare program was supposed to end it. It did not and will not. Medicare For All will.

 

We (includes you) know that  because each of the other 35 developed countries used a similar nonoptional government health insurance program to get rid of their uninsured.

 

The issue is how do we get rid of  our uninsured. It can be done. The other developed countries have done it.

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Message 3 of 48

Not Happening wrote, "Senior Medicare is also funded two ways: on an ongoing basis while you are working for 20-45 years and by high monthly payments after you attain the age of 65. Since YOU want Medicare for all, will the younger than 65 pay triple premiums since they DIDN'T put money into the Medicare system for 45 years? "

 

Good point and I agree that younger people would have to pay much higher premiums than they currently contribute to Medicare only for their senior years. But they would not have to pay for private health insurance.

 

The one factor I would add, is unlike Medicare for Seniors, I think "Medicare for All" should be a voluntary option for everyone under the age of 65. If a young person prefers private health insurance, that option should be available.

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Message 4 of 48

@alotofgrey wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@CriticalThinking wrote:

One should never expect Trump Cult members to deal with FACTS. 

 

"Medicare for All" is NOT Medicaid."Medicare for All" is paid for by the people who are working and paying Medicare premiums out of their paycheck.

 

Medicaid is a welfare program where health care is provided for free to people who cannot afford to pay health insurance premiums.



Yes, you want socialized medicine. But the complaint seems to be poor people who can't afford insurance and people having to go to the ER. Why would Medicaid not be the way to go for them and leave the rest of us alone?


52,

There is no "Socialized" anything in the:

Medicare health insurance program,

Medicare for All health insurance program

Medicaid health insurance program.

 

Keep in mind , the medical resources used in each program is "for profit". "For profit" does not exist in anything "Socialized".

 

Also, there are many reasons to go to Medicare for All "health insurance". I'll name 2..

 

1. Everyone in this country would pay for it including those poor that concern you, no exceptions. We would have NO UNINSURED.

 

2.  NO UNINSURED means we would have no "Medicaid" spending (hundreds of tax payer billions).


How are the poor going to pay for it when they currently cannot afford insurance? 

 

No Medicaid spending but the money would still be spent but under another name. So, no savings there.

 

When the government takes over the healthcare system, I think that is a pretty good definition of "Socialized Medicine". And let's not play the game of, "No, they will not control it, they will only pay for it". That is unrealistic.

 

What is wrong with leaving things be as they are but expanding Medicaid for the poor - the main objective here.

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Message 5 of 48

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@CriticalThinking wrote:

One should never expect Trump Cult members to deal with FACTS. 

 

"Medicare for All" is NOT Medicaid."Medicare for All" is paid for by the people who are working and paying Medicare premiums out of their paycheck.

 

Medicaid is a welfare program where health care is provided for free to people who cannot afford to pay health insurance premiums.



Yes, you want socialized medicine. But the complaint seems to be poor people who can't afford insurance and people having to go to the ER. Why would Medicaid not be the way to go for them and leave the rest of us alone?


52,

There is no "Socialized" anything in the:

Medicare health insurance program,

Medicare for All health insurance program

Medicaid health insurance program.

 

Keep in mind , the medical resources used in each program is "for profit". "For profit" does not exist in anything "Socialized".

 

Also, there are many reasons to go to Medicare for All "health insurance". I'll name 2..

 

1. Everyone in this country would pay for it including those poor that concern you, no exceptions. We would have NO UNINSURED.

 

2.  NO UNINSURED means we would have no "Medicaid" spending (hundreds of tax payer billions).

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Message 6 of 48

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@CriticalThinking wrote:

One should never expect Trump Cult members to deal with FACTS. 

 

"Medicare for All" is NOT Medicaid."Medicare for All" is paid for by the people who are working and paying Medicare premiums out of their paycheck.

 

Medicaid is a welfare program where health care is provided for free to people who cannot afford to pay health insurance premiums.


Exactly - and those are the people supposedly in need, so help them via Medicaid.


Once we have universal health care, it won't matter what we call it. My thought is rather than try to keep individual programs we put them all into one program. Look at the programs in several of the developed countries which are providing the best outcomes at the lowest costs, determine where  improvements  are needed, and build a new program on the infrastructure provided by medicare, Medicaid, the VA and other existing US programs. 


Yes, you want socialized medicine. But the complaint seems to be poor people who can't afford insurance and people having to go to the ER. Why would Medicaid not be the way to go for them and leave the rest of us alone?

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Message 7 of 48

@rk9152 wrote:

@CriticalThinking wrote:

One should never expect Trump Cult members to deal with FACTS. 

 

"Medicare for All" is NOT Medicaid."Medicare for All" is paid for by the people who are working and paying Medicare premiums out of their paycheck.

 

Medicaid is a welfare program where health care is provided for free to people who cannot afford to pay health insurance premiums.


Exactly - and those are the people supposedly in need, so help them via Medicaid.


Once we have universal health care, it won't matter what we call it. My thought is rather than try to keep individual programs we put them all into one program. Look at the programs in several of the developed countries which are providing the best outcomes at the lowest costs, determine where  improvements  are needed, and build a new program on the infrastructure provided by medicare, Medicaid, the VA and other existing US programs. 

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Message 8 of 48

Senior Medicare is also funded two ways: on an ongoing basis while you are working for 20-45 years and by high monthly payments after you attain the age of 65. Since YOU want Medicare for all, will the younger than 65 pay triple premiums since they DIDN'T put money into the Medicare system for 45 years?

 

The simple answer is "No". Remember that seniors are the most expensive group for healthcare costs. It was the driving force to create Medicare for seniors in the first place. Insurance companies did not want to cover seniors. Young, healthy people - yes". Sick people - no. Seniors - no. 

 

19 million individuals signed up for Medicare during its first year in 1966. None of them had payed into the system for 45 years. None of them paid into the system for even one year.


I'm sure people will come up with many ways to pay for Medicare-for-All. I like the penny-tax on stock transactions. I don't believe Bernie includes that in his plan. A national lottery could help pay for it, as some parts of Canada do. Sales tax is popular in some countries, including Canada.

We're Americans. If other counries can come up with ways to insure all its people, I can't see why we can't. 


Medicare-for-All should guarantee basic healthcare for all its people as every major industrial nation has done. Everybody in. No out.


Ideas - How to pay for Medicare-for-All:


https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file

 

medicare for all 1944.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Message 9 of 48

@GailL1 wrote:

@john258

 

It is Bernie's plan - it is already written up in the form of legislation - it was introduced last year.  I think it is S.B. 1803 but I am just guessing at the number, can't remember for sure.

 

He has a time line in the legislation.

 

I am an expert !


How do you know that? You do not but you want to try and make that a starting point, just as you try and make this whole area into a total endless back and forth. There can be a totally new approach and I pointed out some of the steps. The experts will handle it no one in here is an expert so why do you keep trying to discuss something you nor I can. Here is an idea spend time working on how  to start a cure for the new childhood polio spreading around the country. That is going to add a lot of expense to the health care system. Go push for a cure to cut costs. Now forget Bernie, and you are not in any way shape of form an expert on Medical.

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Message 10 of 48

@CriticalThinking wrote:

One should never expect Trump Cult members to deal with FACTS. 

 

"Medicare for All" is NOT Medicaid."Medicare for All" is paid for by the people who are working and paying Medicare premiums out of their paycheck.

 

Medicaid is a welfare program where health care is provided for free to people who cannot afford to pay health insurance premiums.


Senior Medicare is also funded two ways: on an ongoing basis while you are working for 20-45 years and by high monthly payments after you attain the age of 65. Since YOU want Medicare for all, will the younger than 65 pay triple premiums since they DIDN'T put money into the Medicare system for 45 years? Leftists probably think not and the senior system of Medicare will get swamped with the younger people in the system. I see the ultimate failure of Medicare as the result of not thinking before proposing this solution.

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