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   As many here are Seniors, the question is to you, have you had that conversation with your family or whoever will oversee you if you end up in that situation?   If not, why not.

   Many patients are left on those machines, because the family has not made a decision.    Physicians can tell the family that there is no hope of recovery and nothing more can be done and the family refuses to take a qualified health care professionals advice.     What would G want done?   Reminder much of that information and decision making is mandated by State legislator's - which is probably never a good thing, as the country inches towards the religious right nonsense, aka   a zyote is a human being, 

PRO-LIFE is Affordable Healthcare for ALL .
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@GailL1 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

 

Few Patients Sick Enough To Receive a Pacemaker Implant - Would Survive Very Long Outside of ICU

 

Also Below is a Picture of a Oxygen Concentrator - Room Air is around 21% O2 - these machines can increase that percentage significantly and deliver it statically or under pressure - Patients with low O2 saturations would Die outside of ICU

 

Again below is a CPAP Machine - Patients with Sleep Apnea would die outside of ICU without this machine

 

So Now Like Everything Else

 

Life Itself is going to be a Privlege for the Rich?

 

OR

 

Perhaps the suggestion is - Government should decide who lives and dies and who gets to make that decision

 

 

 

 

 


Pacemakers once installed and maintained gives people many years of relatively healthy lives.

You don't even have to be in ICU - a pacemaker can be needed when the heart rate slows.

 

DeFibulators also serve the purpose of shocking the heart back into a life sustaining rythm.

They are installed and maintained to give the patient as normal a life as they can and for many it is pretty normal - ask my niece.

 

O2 Concentrators are used in the home or place of residence when they have low O2 concentrations due to some lung condition.   The patient can go out and about with the use of portable units. - my late husband had one and he never spent one night in a hospital, mush less ICU.

 

Both of these are designed to make the patient get better or stay as even as possible for as long as possible.   In fact, many live many times a full productive life for as long as they can.

 

You are missing the point on these extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (dubbed ECMO) (read my post and link again)

 

ECMO is not designed to be a destination, but a bridge to somewhere — recovery, transplantation or an implanted heart device. But when patients are too sick to reach those goals, ECMO can become a “bridge to nowhere,” leaving the patient in limbo, possibly even awake and alert, but with no chance of survival outside the intensive care unit.

 

It does not matter who a patient might be - when there is NO HOPE FOR SURVIVAL OUTSIDE ICU CONNECTED TO AN ECMO - the machine should not be used only to keep them alive. 

 

If you think "a bridge to nowhere" is the correct use of our medical infrastructure, certain members of the medical community will just love you  cause they will make lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

 

 

 


The Point Is 

 

The Current American Healthcare System is a privilege for only those who can afford it - I'm of course referring to Quality Healthcare - for the rest of us - it's a Bridge To No Where 

 

Talk to US patients on Transplant lists - they consistently get bumped by Rich Politically Connected Individuals - many from Foreign Countries 

 

As far as the rest of your reply - every Condition & Every Piece of Medical Equipment I mentioned were examples of situations where patients would die outside ICU without then 

 

I'm not going to argue about family members with you - obviously every patients invidual situation is different and there are typically many other underlying problems 

 

Bottomline - If there is treatment available & the patient & family want it - it should be made available to everyone regardless of ability to pay or how long the treatment is necessary 

 

Sadly I think your barking up a senseless tree - because in most cases - patients left in long term critical care environments - especially on invasive therapies - eventually end up with infections that kill them not the original disease or condition 

 

That's Just One Example of How Great Our Healthcare System Is 

 

Over prescribing of Antibiotics & poorly written & or adherence to Quality Assurance is responsible 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Message 3 of 5

@mickstuder wrote:

 

Few Patients Sick Enough To Receive a Pacemaker Implant - Would Survive Very Long Outside of ICU

 

Also Below is a Picture of a Oxygen Concentrator - Room Air is around 21% O2 - these machines can increase that percentage significantly and deliver it statically or under pressure - Patients with low O2 saturations would Die outside of ICU

 

Again below is a CPAP Machine - Patients with Sleep Apnea would die outside of ICU without this machine

 

So Now Like Everything Else

 

Life Itself is going to be a Privlege for the Rich?

 

OR

 

Perhaps the suggestion is - Government should decide who lives and dies and who gets to make that decision

 

 

 

 

 


Pacemakers once installed and maintained gives people many years of relatively healthy lives.

You don't even have to be in ICU - a pacemaker can be needed when the heart rate slows.

 

DeFibulators also serve the purpose of shocking the heart back into a life sustaining rythm.

They are installed and maintained to give the patient as normal a life as they can and for many it is pretty normal - ask my niece.

 

O2 Concentrators are used in the home or place of residence when they have low O2 concentrations due to some lung condition.   The patient can go out and about with the use of portable units. - my late husband had one and he never spent one night in a hospital, mush less ICU.

 

Both of these are designed to make the patient get better or stay as even as possible for as long as possible.   In fact, many live many times a full productive life for as long as they can.

 

You are missing the point on these extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (dubbed ECMO) (read my post and link again)

 

ECMO is not designed to be a destination, but a bridge to somewhere — recovery, transplantation or an implanted heart device. But when patients are too sick to reach those goals, ECMO can become a “bridge to nowhere,” leaving the patient in limbo, possibly even awake and alert, but with no chance of survival outside the intensive care unit.

 

It does not matter who a patient might be - when there is NO HOPE FOR SURVIVAL OUTSIDE ICU CONNECTED TO AN ECMO - the machine should not be used only to keep them alive. 

 

If you think "a bridge to nowhere" is the correct use of our medical infrastructure, certain members of the medical community will just love you  cause they will make lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

 

 

 

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Message 4 of 5

Below is a Photo of a Cardiac Pacemaker - the technology has been around and widely in use since around the 1960's

 

Few Patients Sick Enough To Receive a Pacemaker Implant - Would Survive Very Long Outside of ICU

 

Also Below is a Picture of a Oxygen Concentrator - Room Air is around 21% O2 - these machines can increase that percentage significantly and deliver it statically or under pressure - Patients with low O2 saturations would Die outside of ICU

 

Again below is a CPAP Machine - Patients with Sleep Apnea would die outside of ICU without this machine

 

 

HEART .png

 

o2.png

 

cpap.png

 

 

So Now Like Everything Else

 

Life Itself is going to be a Privlege for the Rich?

 

OR

 

Perhaps the suggestion is - Government should decide who lives and dies and who gets to make that decision

 

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Maybe We Need Some Sort of a Healthcare Warranty

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Message 5 of 5

THE WARRANTY:  IF (whatever) doesn't work - they don't get paid.  Woman Wink

(just kiddin)

 

But it seems that some will go to extreme lengths just to be considered "living" and with docs that are supporting this mode of thinking -  With no hope for survival outside of ICU.  Really - we talk about spending health care dollars wisely and having better outcomes -

Where do you think this fits into that equation -

Who will make the rules of needed use?

Who would be saying "NO" if that is the case?

 

KHN 06/18/2019 - Miracle Machine Makes Heroic Rescues — And Leaves Patients In Limbo

 

Sure, there are times for something like this.  No doubt - but what if there is no good prognosis or possible prognosis and it is still used.

 

The latest miracle machine in modern medicine — whose use has skyrocketed in recent years — is saving people from the brink of death: adults whose lungs have been ravaged by the flu; a trucker who was trapped underwater in a crash; a man whose heart had stopped working for an astonishing seven hours.

 

But for each adult saved by this machine — dubbed ECMO, for extracorporeal membrane oxygenation — another adult hooked up to the equipment dies in the hospital. For those patients, the intervention is a very expensive, labor-intensive and unsuccessful effort to cheat death.

 

ECMO, the most aggressive form of life support available, pumps blood out of the body, oxygenates it and returns it to the body, keeping a person alive for days, weeks or months, even when their heart or lungs don’t work.

 

. . . . Experts caution that as ECMO becomes more available, it is also being used as a last-ditch attempt to buy more time for dying patients with poor chances of survival.

 

. . . . ECMO is not designed to be a destination, but a bridge to somewhere — recovery, transplantation or an implanted heart device. But when patients are too sick to reach those goals, ECMO can become a “bridge to nowhere,” leaving the patient in limbo, possibly even awake and alert, but with no chance of survival outside the intensive care unit

 

 

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