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Re: Kicked in their sleep, forced to drink toilet water, fed frozen & rotten food, denied medica

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Message 21 of 39

Der Trumper has gone to court to defend his treatment of immigrant children because he thinks its a good policy. He claims Dems won't cooperate, and that's true - Dems will NOT condone the kidnapping, brutalization and torture of children. Der Trumper said he thought Waterboarding was great and would being torture back. He's making good on his promise USING CHILDREN AS HIS VICTIMS.

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Re: Kicked in their sleep, forced to drink toilet water, fed frozen & rotten food, denied medica

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Message 22 of 39

http://time.com/5314769/family-separation-policy-donald-trump/

 

Here Are the Facts About President Trump's Family Separation Policy

 

President Donald Trump continues to falsely blame Democrats for an administration policy that has led to more than 2,000 children being separated from their parents at the U.S. border.

 

Speaking at a White House event on space Monday morning, Trump again said that the policy is “the Democrats’ fault” because they will not work with Republicans to revise immigration laws.

 

The family separations began earlier this year after Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced a new “zero tolerance” policy of referring all border crossings for federal criminal prosecution, which leads to children being separated as their parents are sent to jail.

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Re: Kicked in their sleep, forced to drink toilet water, fed frozen & rotten food, denied medica

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Message 23 of 39

Since it has been firmly established that the events occurred before President Trump was elected, shall we disregard him in this discussion?

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Re: Kicked in their sleep, forced to drink toilet water, fed frozen & rotten food, denied medica

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Message 24 of 39

The report is based on over 30,000 pages of documents dated between 2009 and 2014.

 

As you say Obama ran into these issues and had to change policy to mitigate the problems.

 

These problems were already known when Trump and Republicans implemented the recent Trump zero tolerance immigration policy.

 

They knew they were going to abuse and hurt children, they did it to terrorize people seeking asylum by hurting their children.

 

That's what makes it evil.

 

 

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Re: Kicked in their sleep, forced to drink toilet water, fed frozen & rotten food, denied medica

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Message 25 of 39

@PaintItBlack wrote:

Since the related thread has gotten so long and off the rails, I thought I'd share this new report.

 

Judge Orders Monitor For Immigrant Child Shelters After Reported Abuses

... Since then, a team of about 100 lawyers interviewed more than 200 migrant children and their parents, and submitted to the court reams of testimony describing physical and verbal assault, lack of food and water, sleep deprivation, and dangerously unsanitary conditions. The detainees described being kicked in their sleep, forced to drink toilet water, fed frozen and rotten food, denied medical treatment, and pushed to sign documents they could not read or understand.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/judge-orders-monitor-for-immigrant-child-shelters-after-reported-...

 

Our beloved Trumplings have fervently denied previous allegations against the Administration's treatment of refugee children, by 1. Denying that it even happened and accusing the plaintiffs of lying, and 2. By blaming the victims and asserting that the children deserve to be beaten and starved because they acted out.

 

Do we now have 100 "lying" lawyers and more than 200 "lying" children, none of whom have been placed in any special kind of detention, and therefore cannot be blamed for the abuse against them? Or do we have continued proof that the immigration department is out of control in its thuggish desire to hurt people?

 

If there's nothing going on, why would the Administration argue in court that the monitor is unnecessary? Why not welcome transparency? 

 

 


How did Der Trumper get Americans to treat CHILDREN this way?

 

Simple - the same way Der Fuhrer got Germans to treat CHILDREN this way.

 

First you spend YEARS vilifying "there kind" - have the leaders call them murderers and rapists, blame them for our drug problem, blame them for YOUR lousy job with no raises, use words like Plague" when describing them, have your media spread lies about them bringing disease into our schools.

 

All of a sudden, they're not like the guards, they're LESS human, BELOW human.

Presto - You have Trump's objective - treat the children so horribly the parents will stop trying to come here, and he didn't even have to write orders on how to do it. Ummm - are Republicans aware that we've found no documents where Hitler ordered the brutal behavior of those guarding the Jews? that "just sorta happened" after the people who became guards were lied to for a few years. The Republican base may not know this, but the GOPerLords DEFINITELY knew how it could be done. And they've DONE IT!

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Re: Kicked in their sleep, forced to drink toilet water, fed frozen & rotten food, denied medica

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Message 26 of 39

@GailL1 wrote:

@williamb39198 wrote:

Even considering the timeline of the 2009-2014 reports, aren’t the initial reports posted by @PaintItBlack current and reflect what is taking place within the immigration system?

And ask, has treatment improved under the current administration. It would seem that they have no interest in developing a good and fair immigration policy...separate families, lose track of kids, 3 year olds in court without lawyers, only desire whites to come into our country...not impressed!

 

mawa?


The TPM link describes an ALLEGATION - a class action lawsuit which has to go to court to be proven.  Remember in our Country, you are innocent until proven guilty.

 

Correct. It is an allegation made by 100+ lawyers and 200+ children. Thank you for at least not going for the Trumpling Pavlovian response that every one of them is lying.

 

HHS has jurisdiction over minors (18 and under) , after the call by DHS / ICE to detain them rather than automatically deporting them depending upon their Country of origin.  HHS is suppose to provide for them until they are adjudicated.  

 

This is a very difficult situation.  When a minor comes into the country, many times illegally - meaning NOT coming to a port of entry to declare intentions of asylum, their situation has to be assessed.  Some come alone and then the process is to determine if there are any legal adults who have a relationship with the minor.  Sometimes they come with papers but some papers are forged.  

 

Again, because Trumplings so often lie through their teeth on this matter, I would like to see a citation of when and how often this happens. The "they use children as get out of jail free cards" lie has been made repeatedly on this forum, yet the poster has finally admitted that he made it up.

 

 

It is a BIG deal and it all shows the extent to which people go to get here whether motivated by fear, economic conditions, turmoil in their homeland neighborhood or motivated by greed or profit as some smugglers or coyotes do.  And our country has to determine all the facts and true motives.

 

Yet another vague assertion without any citations to back it up.

 

 

... make it easier for someone to apply for asylum before arriving here - be them an adult, a minor or a family.

Agreed. Instead, the P-grabber Administration thought it was a better idea to kidnap children. Why?

 

 

I don't think this Administration wanted something like that happening again - so, yes, they took measures - possibly to send a message - was it right or wrong, I don't know because we may never know if the message got through.

You "don't think" this administration wanted blah blah blah -- that is a completely unsupported theory given that a satisfactory solution had already been used before under the Obama Administration. There is no "right" in this case. I don't care whether this incredibly cruel message got through or not, there is a moral line that decent people do not cross, no matter how eloquently they express their excuses for this travesty.

 

 

I have to also remember that these folks are desperate and many of them know how to work the system - the true asylum seekers and the smugglers and coyotes.  

 

Yet another unproven allegation.

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Re: Kicked in their sleep, forced to drink toilet water, fed frozen & rotten food, denied medica

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Message 27 of 39

@GailL1

Well, will see how the accusations pan in court and hearings.

Will have to agree with you on one thing, people are innocent until proven guilty...I wish that trump & supporters would remember that instead of continually trying cases in the court of public opinion.

trump, DHS, ICE, and HHS deserve absolutely compliments here. In fact as people, they should be ashamed of their actions against other human beings!

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Re: Kicked in their sleep, forced to drink toilet water, fed frozen & rotten food, denied medica

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Message 28 of 39

@williamb39198 wrote:

Even considering the timeline of the 2009-2014 reports, aren’t the initial reports posted by @PaintItBlack current and reflect what is taking place within the immigration system?

And ask, has treatment improved under the current administration. It would seem that they have no interest in developing a good and fair immigration policy...separate families, lose track of kids, 3 year olds in court without lawyers, only desire whites to come into our country...not impressed!

 

mawa?


The TPM link describes an ALLEGATION - a class action lawsuit which has to go to court to be proven.  Remember in our Country, you are innocent until proven guilty.

 

HHS has jurisdiction over minors (18 and under) , after the call by DHS / ICE to detain them rather than automatically deporting them depending upon their Country of origin.  HHS is suppose to provide for them until they are adjudicated.  

 

This is a very difficult situation.  When a minor comes into the country, many times illegally - meaning NOT coming to a port of entry to declare intentions of asylum, their situation has to be assessed.  Some come alone and then the process is to determine if there are any legal adults who have a relationship with the minor.  Sometimes they come with papers but some papers are forged.  

 

When they come here with an adult - a determination has to be made as to who is this adult and their relationship to the minor.

 

Other experts, like physicians and various types of scientist have to be used to determine things like a minors age, their physical condition, any signs of actual abuse or injuries which can validate an asylum plea.  Sometimes they do DNA test to verify whether or not they are related to an adult that came with them or one to whom they are going to grant custody here in the US.

 

HHS, Nonprofits, Charitable organizations are all enlisted to help minors seeking asylum here - Can the process get messed up or confusing - yes, it can.  But I blame it all on our messed up Immigration system.  Congress - get to work.

 

It is a BIG deal and it all shows the extent to which people go to get here whether motivated by fear, economic conditions, turmoil in their homeland neighborhood or motivated by greed or profit as some smugglers or coyotes do.  And our country has to determine all the facts and true motives.

 

We need to discourage this sort of immigration - make it easier for someone to apply for asylum before arriving here - be them an adult, a minor or a family.

When all those minors came in hordes in 2014, I am sure that things went amuck just because of the shear number of them and the resources needed to work through the process of either deportation or approved asylum seeking.

I don't think this Administration wanted something like that happening again - so, yes, they took measures - possibly to send a message - was it right or wrong, I don't know because we may never know if the message got through.

 

Any Country that has an immigration problem, which we do, has to take their own steps to curtail it or stop it as we have seen from other industrialized nations.  Sometimes these measures are taken as a sign that the country is cruel or Inhumane be that turning back boat loads of refugees /asylum seekers, or closing their boarders.

 

Our political environment is vicious right now - and I can only go by reputable sources as to our current dealings in this matter.  However, I also have to put it all in prospective and the problems we would have if 40,000+ of them begin to enter our country.  I have to also remember that these folks are desperate and many of them know how to work the system - the true asylum seekers and the smugglers and coyotes.  

 

It it may be beneficial for people to know what extremes they go to by reading this expose from The Atlantic Mag.  BTW, there is whole series of stories like this one which span different Administrations.

 

Atlantic Magazine - Unaccompanied Minors and the Journey to the US 10/2015

 

Here a father had to give up custody of his minor just to keep the kid in the US.

In this instance, the kid probably understood why his father refused taking him back - for a younger child, I am not too sure.

 

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: Kicked in their sleep, forced to drink toilet water, fed frozen & rotten food, denied medica

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Message 29 of 39

@williamb39198 wrote:

Even considering the timeline of the 2009-2014 reports, aren’t the initial reports posted by @PaintItBlack current and reflect what is taking place within the immigration system?

And ask, has treatment improved under the current administration. It would seem that they have no interest in developing a good and fair immigration policy...separate families, lose track of kids, 3 year olds in court without lawyers, only desire whites to come into our country...not impressed!

 

mawa?


Yes, the current law suit deals with incidents occuring in 2017 and 2018. 

 

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Message 30 of 39

Even considering the timeline of the 2009-2014 reports, aren’t the initial reports posted by @PaintItBlack current and reflect what is taking place within the immigration system?

And ask, has treatment improved under the current administration. It would seem that they have no interest in developing a good and fair immigration policy...separate families, lose track of kids, 3 year olds in court without lawyers, only desire whites to come into our country...not impressed!

 

mawa?

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