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Re: Is Ed Sec. Worth 20 Million in Security Details?

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Message 1 of 17

@retiredtraveler wrote:

"...Who got a Education - for how long and at what Level of Quality would go back to the States - we already tried that - it didn't work....".

 

Ok. I'm going to make rker321 happy to write a conflicting belief (and then see if the tirade starts).

 

I'm Libertarian (well, mostly). I agree that the states have failed at a great many things. But I believe the feds have failed even more greatly and that the states have to solve their issues.

 

   More to the Libertarian point --- all politics is local. If states fail at something, it's the right and responsibility of the citizens to get it fixed by voting in people who will fix it. States don't 'fail' --- people do. And, the Libertarian ideal is that if you live in a state that is doing something you really can't live with, you have the ability to move, don't do business there, protest, fix things. You're dealing with people living in the same area you are as opposed to feds trying to control California the same as Rhode Island.

     I'm in Illinois. We're failing at a number of things. And people, and companies, are moving to neighboring states. Eventually, the state will go bust, or enough people will get involved to fix things, especially education. That's the way it should be. You're free to fail, free to prosper. It's the choice of the people of the state.

  You would agree with all the money spent, we still have absolutely dismal results in education in states like Alabama or Mississippi (and many others). The feds are not fixing that, and cannot. If those states want to remain ignorant, let them. Don't live there, don't travel there. Fed employees have no more smarts than state employees. They are all capable of running things well, or capable of completely screwing around, being corrupt, not accomplishing anything. States can contract with other states. That is, they can cooperate or they can sue. You don't need the feds for that.


Political Ideologies Are A Wonder To Behold - communism - socialism - democracy - republicanism - libertarianism....................

 

Every Single One of Them Has Arguably Some Good & Bad Points

 

But .......................They All Share One Thing in Common

 

They Are Dreamt Up - On Paper & Are Conceived in a Vacumn Void of The Typical Realities Inherent in the Human Populations They Are Intended To Serve

 

They are all overly simplistic

 

Evil & Greed are ignored, overlooked - never accounted for - never built into the Modeling

 

Human Nature - Demands There Will Be Cheats & The Success of Those Cheats - The Ones Who will try to take Adavantage - depends on how well & how many of the Non-Cheaters follow the rules

 

Almost Every Government Policy & Process including the US Constitution makes the faulty assumption that everyone will follow the rules as intended - the brilliance of the US Constitution is even all those years ago they understood the inherent weaknesses of the Human Spirit & they built in fail safes - but they miscalculated the enormous size scope and scale of what their Country would become

 

We see the same phenomenon in Nature - we see the same failures in conception

 

Humans reproduce at a global rate of around 130 Million a year - 8 Million or roughly 6% are born with serious birth defects.......................

 

Few Americans find that risk important enough to even think about when they are deciding about whether or not to start a family or when

 

So hopefully for purposes of our discussion here we have identified just a few of the major flaws in the Dreams of the Politcal Ideologist

 

The Author above to his credit does attempt to address some of these - Realities

 

He provides us with the Universal Fall Back Position - If you don't like it - well you can always leave

 

You can just MOVE - leave the Town & City - The State or the Country if you don't like the Cheating

 

Ability - Families & Friends - Climate - Opportunities - Culture - NOT IMPORTANT!

 

Again, ideas conceived in a vacumn refusing to consider the Realities of the clients being served or their environment

 

Just the Fact of A $7.25 a hour Federal Minimum Wage does not allow the option of leaving one state for another - Gasoline is $3.00/Gallon - Healthcare is not Portable - Etcetera

 

But the Political Ideologist doesn't accept that their philosophy isn't going to work equally well for everyone - that's the whole purpose they argue - if I can do to - there is no reasonable excuse why you cannot as well

 

Lets go back to Nature - Birth Defects - as Cells Divide after conception - for the DNA Lottery Winners - every cell division is exquisite - exactly as expected - then there is that 6% where something serious happened and these people will never have the opportunity - no matter how closely they follow the Political Ideology Instruction Manual to compete & succeed like all the other more Typically Developed Individuals

 

Some will say - well - we can identify those people & provide accomodations

 

Here is the Problem - Political Ideologists spend No Time defining or accomodating those who's Natural Deficiencies are translucent to the untrained eye

 

For Example - Does Anyone Think for a Minute - Michael Jordon - Tiger Woods - Tom Brady - Neil deGrasse Tyson - Manahel Thabet - Marilyn vos Savant....................simply practiced harder then anyone else - read & studied more than anyone else?

 

Of Course Not - They are all examples of Lifes Mega DNA Lottery Winners - the rest of us all fall on the Scale somewhere lower

 

If Tom Brady is the Greatest Football Player of All Time & He's Also The Biggest Cheat.................how do any of these Poltical Ideologists account for that?

 

 

 

 

( " If I do not believe as you believe, it proves that you do not believe as I believe, and this is all that it proves. Sam Adams )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Is Ed Sec. Worth 20 Million in Security Details?

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Message 2 of 17

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Der Trumper's vassals think the entire budget of the agencies they have been given charge of can be diverted to satisfy their personal whims, Pruitt's $43,000 phone booth and Voss with more personal security than President Clinton.

 

Just another fact that has come out to keep the Blue Tsunami growing. Wonder what the NEW set of Congressional investigations will turn up? I'll bet AGAINST them spending years and millions and not convicting ANYBODY of ANYTHING, like the GOPers are still (until January) doing.


We will have investigations because the Dems announced that they would do it - it's part of their "Resistance". Do you suppose they will investigate the need for security for the Secretary (the topic)?

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Re: Is Ed Sec. Worth 20 Million in Security Details?

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Message 3 of 17

@Olderscout66 wrote:

You seem to think Gerrymandering is not the result of poor education.

I think gerrymandering is not a factor in the protections offered the Secretary. And "yes" to your statement.

 

You also think the Federal Government can magically overturn Republican efforts to deprive children of an education at the State level - that is, accomplish it without doing anything.

I think that is unrelated to the protections offered the Secretary. And there are no such Republican efforts.

 

Then you assert that when Republcians act at the Federal level to end free public education the one in charge needs more money spent on his/her PERSONAL security than they propose spending to fight school segregation.

I assert that there is no such Republican effort. School SEGREGATION was replaced by school INTEGRATION, in other words still assigning kids to schools based on their race, in the '60s. Catch up.

 

And finally there's some weird complaint concerning the spelling ...of ACRONYMS??

 

Bad enough Republicans have virtually eliminated "civics" from our highschools so their dupes don't even know how they're being messed with or why college tuition had to be increased astronomically to preserve tax scams for the very rich. Now you want all the money spent protecting people who do things that make other people consider violence as a reasonable responce.

Where did Republicans remove civics? As to college costs - are you back to your claim the the cost of college was 75% covered by the feds before the Reagan tax cuts??? If so, it would be wise to substantiate that claim.

 

 


 

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Re: Is Ed Sec. Worth 20 Million in Security Details?

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Message 4 of 17

Der Trumper's vassals think the entire budget of the agencies they have been given charge of can be diverted to satisfy their personal whims, Pruitt's $43,000 phone booth and Voss with more personal security than President Clinton.

 

Just another fact that has come out to keep the Blue Tsunami growing. Wonder what the NEW set of Congressional investigations will turn up? I'll bet AGAINST them spending years and millions and not convicting ANYBODY of ANYTHING, like the GOPers are still (until January) doing.

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Re: Is Ed Sec. Worth 20 Million in Security Details?

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Message 5 of 17

"....And you seem to think that it assures the same quality of education to all. Some might dispute how well that is going.....".

 

Education is a major topic for me. I come from a family of teachers and brought up to value education (although I am  a larger proponent of trade school after high school). But I am very aware of the large percentage of hs students who graduate and can't read, write, or have math skills many of us had at 14 years old. 

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the fed contribution to education for states varies, but I believe the highest percentage is around 15%. The rest is state/local. The feds create mandates, do a lot of studies, but fail to raise education standards. As always, it's local programs that school districts adopt (or individual schools) that raise standards and educational results. 

   


"...Why is everyone a victim? Take personal responsibility for your life..."
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Re: Is Ed Sec. Worth 20 Million in Security Details?

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Message 6 of 17

You seem to think Gerrymandering is not the result of poor education.

 

You also think the Federal Government can magically overturn Republican efforts to deprive children of an education at the State level - that is, accomplish it without doing anything.

 

Then you assert that when Republcians act at the Federal level to end free public education the one in charge needs more money spent on his/her PERSONAL security than they propose spending to fight school segregation.

 

And finally there's some weird complaint concerning the spelling ...of ACRONYMS??

 

Bad enough Republicans have virtually eliminated "civics" from our highschools so their dupes don't even know how they're being messed with or why college tuition had to be increased astronomically to preserve tax scams for the very rich. Now you want all the money spent protecting people who do things that make other people consider violence as a reasonable responce.

 

 

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Re: Is Ed Sec. Worth 20 Million in Security Details?

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Message 7 of 17

@mickstuder wrote:

@retiredtraveler wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, the Dept of Education is one of a number of federal agencies that should either be eliminated, or severely downsized. $63 billion (with a 'b') a year, and 4000+ employees.

 

I would surely like to see what their accomplishments are and how much was spent to get there. 


There are 55 Million American Children in US Schools - (K-12) - if the Federal Government was not mandating that States provide every child a opportunity to get a Education

 

Who got a Education - for how long and at what Level of Quality would go back to the States - we already tried that - it didn't work

 

States already Gerrymander our Elections

 

States already systematically by design suppress Voting

 

Specific States Would Absolutely Design Education to Favor a few at the Expense of many

 

The Issues With the Federal Government Managing Education is not because it's not the best idea - it's because of all the Special Interests Involved like Betsy Devos who wants to create Income Flows for Friends & Associates by Privatizing it all & having Tax Payers provide the profit

 

The US Government Does a Poor Job at Healthcare - VA Benefits - Education - not because it shouldn't be run by the Federal Government but because Congress and Presidents don't do their Jobs

 

Congress & Presidents spend all their time running for re-election instead of working to fix the Nations Problems

 

Just another reason why all Incumbents - that's ALL INCUMBENTS - should be Voted out every election cycle until they start managing our Government & doing it competently instead of only worrying about their own Careers

 

 For Example - How Many Pell Grants - Could have been funded with the 200 $$ Million wasted on the Political Stunt called - Operation Faithful Patriot?

 

 

 You seem to think that the Dept. of Education is in charge of preventing gerrymandering. I had not heard that.

 

And you seem to think that it assures the same quality of education to all. Some might dispute how well that is going. 

 

You are correct about our never ending campaign seasons - but how does that effect the operation of any specific federal department or the need for the protection of it's head?

 

Finally, the topic (your topic) is about DOE not DOD.

 


 

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Re: Is Ed Sec. Worth 20 Million in Security Details?

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Message 8 of 17

@retiredtraveler wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, the Dept of Education is one of a number of federal agencies that should either be eliminated, or severely downsized. $63 billion (with a 'b') a year, and 4000+ employees.

 

I would surely like to see what their accomplishments are and how much was spent to get there. 


Agreed.

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Message 9 of 17

@LydiaN586309 wrote:

Ummmmm!

Well, since ol' Besty is already worth $1 billion dollars, I say let her foot the bill.  Problem solved.


Ummm!

Her personal wealth is a factor in private life. However, as a government official that isn't supposes to matter. And, consider this, what wealth have the Clintons acquired and yet, even as private citizens they receive protection.

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Message 10 of 17

"...Who got a Education - for how long and at what Level of Quality would go back to the States - we already tried that - it didn't work....".

 

Ok. I'm going to make rker321 happy to write a conflicting belief (and then see if the tirade starts).

 

I'm Libertarian (well, mostly). I agree that the states have failed at a great many things. But I believe the feds have failed even more greatly and that the states have to solve their issues.

 

   More to the Libertarian point --- all politics is local. If states fail at something, it's the right and responsibility of the citizens to get it fixed by voting in people who will fix it. States don't 'fail' --- people do. And, the Libertarian ideal is that if you live in a state that is doing something you really can't live with, you have the ability to move, don't do business there, protest, fix things. You're dealing with people living in the same area you are as opposed to feds trying to control California the same as Rhode Island.

     I'm in Illinois. We're failing at a number of things. And people, and companies, are moving to neighboring states. Eventually, the state will go bust, or enough people will get involved to fix things, especially education. That's the way it should be. You're free to fail, free to prosper. It's the choice of the people of the state.

  You would agree with all the money spent, we still have absolutely dismal results in education in states like Alabama or Mississippi (and many others). The feds are not fixing that, and cannot. If those states want to remain ignorant, let them. Don't live there, don't travel there. Fed employees have no more smarts than state employees. They are all capable of running things well, or capable of completely screwing around, being corrupt, not accomplishing anything. States can contract with other states. That is, they can cooperate or they can sue. You don't need the feds for that.


"...Why is everyone a victim? Take personal responsibility for your life..."
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