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Immigration Crime & Fear Mongering

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Message 21 of 56

Today's Republican Party, led by Donald Trump, is addicted to fear mongering.

  • Muslims
  • Mexican Immigrants
  • Mexican federal judges
  • etc. 

But there's one big exception, Vladimir Putin is not on Trump's list

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Re: Immigration Crime & Fear Mongering

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Message 22 of 56

@Centristsin2010wrote:


By any rational definition, throwing in the race of the people involved would be considered racism. Not by any inteeligent(sic) person.  But then again, you claimed referring to Obama as the Black President was racist; again, clearly demonstrating you have no clue what the term means.  My point exactly. Making a person's race a factor is racism. The people under discussion are "illegal immigrants" - period; Obama was the "President of the United States" - period. It has nothing to do with right-wing, left-wing. It has to do with the point of introducing race in to the discussion.  LOL!  Introducing race is NOT racism.  Your logic is incredibly flawed.  Then see if you can correct it beyond a phony laugh - what is the point of introducing race, particularly in the cases above?


 


 

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Re: Immigration Crime & Fear Mongering

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Message 23 of 56

Der Fuhrer had the Jews now Der Trumper has the immigrants. Hitler committed mass murder on his hated minority, Der Trumper is doing it one at a time by sending people back to be killed by the terror that sent them fleeing to America. His immigration "Courts" are forcing 3-year-old infants to DEFEND THEMSELVES because there's no REQUIREMENT to provide attorneys to the defendants in Immigration Court.

 

His toad Sessions wants the process to move faster, even tho one woman's hearing lasted 3 MINUTES, she lost, was deported, and couple weeks later, the thugs she was running from found and killed her.

 

Lemontop and the NRAGOP could care less - families living peacefully and HONESTLY for years are being torn apart because the toad POTUS needs to divert attention from his criminal administration and feed the blood lust of his moronic base.

 

Hitler told Germany the Jews had "stabbed Germany in the back" and deserved to be punished. Der Trumper and his followers on this blog tell us the Immigrants "rape and murder all across the border states" and deserve to be punished. Hitler built the camps for the exterminations, Der Trumper just sends his victims "back home" to die at the hands of their persecutors.

 

Don't like being compared to Hitler Donnyboy? Stop acting like him!

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Re: Immigration Crime & Fear Mongering

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Message 24 of 56

@rk9152wrote:

@afisherwrote:

   How do you know that the ignoble donald supporters can't discuss the merits of a thread;, they throw up  RW propaganda verbage.    

 

   Here is something else they are in abject denial about:   For the first time, the number of unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. was lower in 2015 than it was at the end of the Great Recession in 2009. The origin countries of unauthorized immigrants also shifted during that time, with the number from Mexico declining and the number from other regions rising, according to the latest Pew Research Center estimates.


By definition, a nation must have borders. There is nothing "ignoble" about that. There is no propaganda verbiage in that. There is nothing right wing in that. It is just reality

 

Yet, when one sees these boards as merely a place to insult others, they tend to overlook all that reality.


Yep, a nation must have borders, but not 'walls'. Should be build a 'wall' around our entire country? I'm sure that some crackpots would say 'yes'.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Immigration Crime & Fear Mongering

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Message 25 of 56

@TxGrandpa2wrote:

@ChasKy53wrote:


You were simply asked to post data to support the claim that it's about crime or something other than race. You failed to do so, just more rhetoric instead.
So I guess until you post supportive data ............. it must be race.


Why should I submit data when someone inserts race into a discussion about immigration?  Inserting 'brown' people into the discussion where illegals come from all over from all different races.

 

Why don't you post data showing its not about race?  You keep critiquing other posters, yet never come up with anything original yourself.  Some are not leaders but are meant to be followers.


In other words you can post no data to support your claim. Thanks for answering.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Immigration Crime & Fear Mongering

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Message 26 of 56

@rk9152wrote:

@afisherwrote:

   How do you know that the ignoble donald supporters can't discuss the merits of a thread;, they throw up  RW propaganda verbage.    

 

   Here is something else they are in abject denial about:   For the first time, the number of unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. was lower in 2015 than it was at the end of the Great Recession in 2009. The origin countries of unauthorized immigrants also shifted during that time, with the number from Mexico declining and the number from other regions rising, according to the latest Pew Research Center estimates.


By definition, a nation must have borders. Almost every country has no walls, but the right-wing extremists demand one.  Quite telling.....  There is nothing "ignoble" about that.  A wall?  Yes there is....   There is no propaganda verbiage in that. There is nothing right wing in that. It is just reality (sic) Reality also indicates that 2/3rds of voters do NOT want a wall.

 

Yet, when one sees these boards as merely a place to insult others, they tend to overlook all that reality.   Like walls aren't necessary and a strong majority doesn't believe a wall is necessary.  Fascists demand a wall.


 


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Immigration Crime & Fear Mongering

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Message 27 of 56

@rk9152wrote:

@Centristsin2010wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@Centristsin2010wrote:

@ManicProgressivewrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@ManicProgressivewrote:

This is why liberals think many conservatives are racist. 

 

When you make policy, you try to be fiscally prudent and operationally effective. What is the wrong you are trying to correct? What is the good you are trying to achieve? How can you achieve the most good with the least amount of money?

 

If it’s crime prevention and reduction, border walls and national guard deployments are not the way.  

 

If it’s keeping out brown people, those tactics may help.


"Illegal immigrant" is not a racist term. Hence, the Liberals are wrong about their claim about Conservatives.


I never said that term was racist. I said the policy choices were.


Yeah TM.... It's the usual intellectual dishonesty by the one poster spinning another straw argument....it's what he does.


"intellectual dishonesty" and "straw" - O.K. you got the required meaningless terms in. OK, back to lies and fraudulant arguments then.  It might prove to be constructive if you didn't lie and didn't attempt to create falacies.  That should take care of your issue.  Now, could you explain how inserting "brown people" into the discussion is not racist?  Can you explain how it IS racist? We've learned from yours and other right-wing extremists that if someone mentions race, you think it's "racists".  I'd suggest borrowing a dictionary.


By any rational definition, throwing in the race of the people involved would be considered racism. Not by any inteeligent person.  But then again, you claimed referring to Obama as the Black President was racist; again, clearly demonstrating you have no clue what the term means.  It has nothing to do with right-wing, left-wing. It has to do with the point of introducing race in to the discussion.  LOL!  Introducing race is NOT racism.  Your logic is incredibly flawed.  


 


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Immigration Crime & Fear Mongering

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Message 28 of 56

@ManicProgressivewrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@ManicProgressivewrote:


I never said that term was racist. I said the policy choices were.


The policy is intended to deal with illegal immigrants - how is that racist?


Because it's NOT a policy that is meant to actually deal with illegal immigrants.  It's either stupid, or it's deliberately meant to rile up Trump's racist base, playing on their fears of losing their culture. Of course it is. Let's consider the realities.

 

Policymaking 101:

 

First you identify the problem: Illegal immigration, or illegal immigrants, or both? Strange question - one causes the other. Stop the first, you solve the second. They are not separate issues.

 

Then you identify the scope of the problem:  There are 11-13 million illegal immigrants here already.   But current illegal immigration is at its lowest in a very long time.  So what's the best thing to target in order to solve the problem?  People who are currently here.  We can address current and future illegal immigration, too.  But is it just from Mexico?  What about the influx from Asia?  What about the 20+ countries who don't work with us to repatriate illegal immigrants?  The problem is porous borders - in many ways. I remind you that President Trump tried to redefine our legal immigration policy and was stopped by both Parties. Establishing the definition of "legal" goes a long way towards defining your actions to deal with "illegal". As to the other issue you raised - yes, they too must be addressed.

 

What other problems contribute to the illegal immigrant population in the country?  Inadequate ICE staffing.  Inadequate immigration court staffing.  A severe backlog in pending deportation cases.   700,000 right now.  We also have businesses that both employ and depend on illegal immigrant workers.  To disrupt those significantly would likely hurt the economy.  Other causes are political, environmental, and economic instability in much of Central and South America.   We also have a growing number of Asian immigrants who overstay their visas, engage in sham marriages, fly here to have babies, and engage in other illegal green card sponsor schemes. I just heard that the President is trying to increase the  number of judges. But, as in other cases, he needs the support of the Congress.

 

Which of these contributing factors can we actually reduce or eliminate?  Staffing for sure.  Cracking down on businesses who hire illegally, for sure.  Revamping the guest worker program so that it's sufficiently robust enough to address seasonal needs.   Sure.   Instability in Central and South America?  Not as much control.   Relationships and agreements with other nations to help reduce illegal immigration?  Some control.   Visa overstays?   Yes, we can crack down on that. I agree, crack down. But then we have the thought of "Jobs that Americans won't do". I have a problem with someone eating three meals a day but refusing to do a job. However, the problem of needed workers can be resolve with the appropriate visas. Also there was at one time a "bracero program" - it could be brought back.

 

How to solve the problem:   The biggest issue are those who are already here.  2/3 of them have been here more than a decade.   Do we treat them the same or differently?  Why or why not?  Of those, do we target those who have a history of violent criminal history?  Or any criminal history?  Do we target those with violent criminal history first?  If so, which program had better results?  Obama's Priority Enforcement Program?  Or Trump's return to Obama's old Secure Communities Program?  Or should we look at something else? Put funding toward staffing, expedited cases, business employment enforcement, visa enforcement, and the guest worker program.  

 

This is why Trump's simplistic, ineffective policy choices of a border wall and National Guard are so frustrating.  The problem is far more complex and will take a much more multi-faceted and comprehensive approach to solve.   Granted, that is short term but you have to start somewhere - particularly without the cooperation of the Congress.

 

But the idea of a wall is all splashy and glitzy.   The national guard?  Everyone loves the military.  Let's deploy them.   They are feel-good but ineffectual moves.  And the deeper issue is.....why do these ideas feel good to certain people?   Because if it truly were about crime, or jobs, or just following the letter of the immigration law, these certain people would be pissed at Trump for wasting everyone's time and everyone's tax dollars.  They'd be yelling about the visa overstays and the businesses who employ them and our failure to actually adjudicate and deport people on a timely basis.   But they aren't.  They just love Trump and his sophomoric policies even more.    Why?  If it's not fear of "other," of losing their culture, of losing superiority in numbers, then what is it?  "sophomoric" only if you consider the first (and only possible thanks to Congress) steps a President can take.

 

 


 

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Re: Immigration Crime & Fear Mongering

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Message 29 of 56

@afisherwrote:

   How do you know that the ignoble donald supporters can't discuss the merits of a thread;, they throw up  RW propaganda verbage.    

 

   Here is something else they are in abject denial about:   For the first time, the number of unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. was lower in 2015 than it was at the end of the Great Recession in 2009. The origin countries of unauthorized immigrants also shifted during that time, with the number from Mexico declining and the number from other regions rising, according to the latest Pew Research Center estimates.


By definition, a nation must have borders. There is nothing "ignoble" about that. There is no propaganda verbiage in that. There is nothing right wing in that. It is just reality

 

Yet, when one sees these boards as merely a place to insult others, they tend to overlook all that reality.

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Re: Immigration Crime & Fear Mongering

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Message 30 of 56

@Centristsin2010wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@Centristsin2010wrote:

@ManicProgressivewrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@ManicProgressivewrote:

This is why liberals think many conservatives are racist. 

 

When you make policy, you try to be fiscally prudent and operationally effective. What is the wrong you are trying to correct? What is the good you are trying to achieve? How can you achieve the most good with the least amount of money?

 

If it’s crime prevention and reduction, border walls and national guard deployments are not the way.  

 

If it’s keeping out brown people, those tactics may help.


"Illegal immigrant" is not a racist term. Hence, the Liberals are wrong about their claim about Conservatives.


I never said that term was racist. I said the policy choices were.


Yeah TM.... It's the usual intellectual dishonesty by the one poster spinning another straw argument....it's what he does.


"intellectual dishonesty" and "straw" - O.K. you got the required meaningless terms in. OK, back to lies and fraudulant arguments then.  It might prove to be constructive if you didn't lie and didn't attempt to create falacies.  That should take care of your issue.  Now, could you explain how inserting "brown people" into the discussion is not racist?  Can you explain how it IS racist? We've learned from yours and other right-wing extremists that if someone mentions race, you think it's "racists".  I'd suggest borrowing a dictionary.


By any rational definition, throwing in the race of the people involved would be considered racism. It has nothing to do with right-wing, left-wing. It has to do with the point of introducing race in to the discussion.

 

Or you can play your "you have to prove a negative" game.

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