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Honored Social Butterfly

How Trump lost the summit

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/06/12/how-trump-lost-the-summit-before-the-p...

 

How Trump lost the summit before the photographers even left the room

 

 

The spectacle of the murderous dictator Kim Jong Un on equal footing with the president of the United States — each country’s flag represented, a  supposedly “normal” diplomatic exchange between two nuclear powers — was enough to turn democracy lovers’ stomachs. President Trump naturally made things worse. He gushed: “It’s my honor, and we will have a terrific relationship, I have no doubt.”

 

An honor to meet the man who maintains slave labor camps, who periodically attacks the ships of our ally South Korea and whose regime is responsible for the death of Otto Warmbier? That should stun Warmbier’s parents — and every decent human being. Trump envisions a “terrific” relationship with a country that conducts mass hacking, is arguably the worst human rights violator, threatens us with nuclear weapons, detains our people and seeks the reunification of the Korean peninsula under its rule of terror. Imagine if President Barack Obama traveled to Iran, shook Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s hand, proclaimed it was a great honor and spoke about his conviction that Iran and the United States would have a terrific relationship. John Bolton and Mike Pompeo, among others, would have had a conniption.

 

Trump’s impulsive decision to have a summit and his insatiable need for attention provided Kim with a historic victory that no other U.S. president has handed to a North Korean leader. With not a single bomb dismantled or a single gram of fissile material shipped out of the country, Kim got more than he could have dreamed of — and all before the photographers departed.

 

It went downhill from there. The Post reports:

Honored Social Butterfly

It looks and feels like progress is being made.

It was less than a year ago, we were worried that Trump was going to start World War III with North Korea.

 

Kim Jong Un: "The entire United States is within range of our nuclear weapons, a nuclear button is always on my desk. This is reality, not a threat."
Kim Jong Un: "This year, we should focus on mass-producing nuclear warheads and ballistic missiles for operational deployment. These weapons will be used only if our society is threatened."

 

Trump: "I too have a Nuclear Button, but it is a much bigger & more powerful one than his, and my Button works!

 

North Korea regularly calls the military exercises between the U.S. and South Korea "provocative" preparations for a northward invasion, and many of the scariest standoffs in recent years on the Korean Peninsula have happened when the drills were being staged.

 

During a news conference following his summit Tuesday with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, Trump also called the annual U.S.-South Korean military exercises "provocative."


He also said he'd like to remove all 28,500 U.S. troops stationed in the South, although he made clear this was an option for the future, not a part of current negotiations.

 

"We will be stopping the war games, which will save us a tremendous amount of money, unless and until we see the future negotiation is not going along like it should," Trump said in Singapore.


"But we'll be saving a tremendous amount of money. Plus, I think it's very provocative," Trump said.


In a later interview with the Voice of America, Trump said the North Koreans were "very happy" about his decision to freeze the exercises "because it is so provocative."

 

"Six and a half hours — that's a long time for these big massive planes to be flying to South Korea to practice and then drop bombs all over the place, and then go back to Guam," Trump said. "I know a lot about airplanes; it's very expensive."

 

Honored Social Butterfly

President Donald Trump praised North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un, a man who leads a government that outside observers say brutalizes and starves its own citizens, as someone who "loves his people."

 
Trump called Kim "funny" and "smart." "He's got a great personality. He's a funny guy, he's very smart, he's a great negotiator. He loves his people, not that I'm surprised by that," Trump said.
 
Trump Cult members voted for and wholeheartedly support this idiot in the White House?
Honored Social Butterfly

Trump Cult members are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. They have a massive double standard for their hero in the White House. I copied a portion of the article.

 

"Imagine if President Barack Obama traveled to Iran, shook Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s hand, proclaimed it was a great honor and spoke about his conviction that Iran and the United States would have a terrific relationship. John Bolton and Mike Pompeo, among others, would have  a conniption."

Honored Social Butterfly

The State of affairs in this country is really becoming scary  The manner that many of the Trump followers think, could bring a serious situation in this country.

We really need to have a change in Congress and the Senate, that would be the  only way that we may see sanity again.

Contrary to what the Trump followers think, this is not any longer a matter of Democrats or Republicans. This is a matter of bringing back this country to the country of values, and morality that it used to be.

no name
Esteemed Social Butterfly


@Roxanna35 wrote:

... This is a matter of bringing back this country to the country of values, and morality that it used to be.


Isn't that Trump's slogan? MAGA!

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Honored Social Butterfly


@jfpinlvn wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:

... This is a matter of bringing back this country to the country of values, and morality that it used to be.


Isn't that Trump's slogan? MAGA!


His slogan for the suckers who believe him. Porn stars, crooked lawyers, money launderers, abandoned promises, KKK, the list goes on.  This is not what made America great but it is what his boss Putin wants to reduce us to. 

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Esteemed Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

@jfpinlvn wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:

... This is a matter of bringing back this country to the country of values, and morality that it used to be.


Isn't that Trump's slogan? MAGA!


His slogan for the suckers who believe him. Porn stars, crooked lawyers, money launderers, abandoned promises, KKK, the list goes on.  This is not what made America great but it is what his boss Putin wants to reduce us to. 


The possibility of a Trump NK success really grates on you, doesn't it?

Honored Social Butterfly


@jfpinlvn wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@jfpinlvn wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:

... This is a matter of bringing back this country to the country of values, and morality that it used to be.


Isn't that Trump's slogan? MAGA!


His slogan for the suckers who believe him. Porn stars, crooked lawyers, money launderers, abandoned promises, KKK, the list goes on.  This is not what made America great but it is what his boss Putin wants to reduce us to. 


The possibility of a Trump NK success really grates on you, doesn't it?


No what really grates me is the suit filed in NY today by the NY AG on the Trump family charity. It shows how it is nothing but a criminal operation that has cheated people for years. They  want it dissolved, and fined. Lets hope they can put the turstees and founder in Jail for the fraud it is.

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Honored Social Butterfly

The State of affairs in this country is really becoming scary  The manner that many of the Trump followers think, could bring a serious situation in this country.

 

They don't think, they just follow the leader.

Honored Social Butterfly

Sorry  to disagree with you. Trump won the summit for Russia and China, he is dong their plan to disengage the US from that region.

no name
Honored Social Butterfly


@Roxanna35 wrote:

Sorry  to disagree with you. Trump won the summit for Russia and China, he is dong their plan to disengage the US from that region.


True - trump continues to do what Putin wants.

 

 

44>dolt45
Honored Social Butterfly


@Roxanna35 wrote:

 

Sorry  to disagree with you. Trump won the summit for Russia and China, he is dong their plan to disengage the US from that region.


Apparently in talking about investments, he is looking for more American engagement.  North Korea has many resources that we could use.  And America has many resources that North Korea could use.  Bet Kim would appreciate a McDonald franchise!!  The country already has an Indonesian burger chain similar to McDonalds that is well received.

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Honored Social Butterfly

Apparently in talking about investments, he is looking for more American engagement.  North Korea has many resources that we could use.  And America has many resources that North Korea could use.  Bet Kim would appreciate a McDonald franchise!!  The country already has an Indonesian burger chain similar to McDonalds that is well received.

 

Per capita income in North Korea is about $ 1000 a year, would you buy happy meals if your income was $ 1000 a year?

Honored Social Butterfly


@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:

 

Sorry  to disagree with you. Trump won the summit for Russia and China, he is dong their plan to disengage the US from that region.


Apparently in talking about investments, he is looking for more American engagement.  North Korea has many resources that we could use.  And America has many resources that North Korea could use.  Bet Kim would appreciate a McDonald franchise!!  The country already has an Indonesian burger chain similar to McDonalds that is well received.


Tx.  your post is surprising. you, are a military man that saw so many Americans die in the Korean War now really thinking that NK  could be our friend? That is practically thinking that the Nazis if they existed today could of use  to this country. 
Have you forgotten what kind of country NK  represents.?  don't you approve of Democracies any longer? don't you have any allegiance to  the men that fought and died in that war. and what it represented. ?
I can't believe that you have changed this much. I must have misunderstood you.

no name
Honored Social Butterfly


@Roxanna35 wrote:


Tx.  your post is surprising. you, are a military man that saw so many Americans die in the Korean War now really thinking that NK  could be our friend? That is practically thinking that the Nazis if they existed today could of use  to this country. 
Have you forgotten what kind of country NK  represents.?  don't you approve of Democracies any longer? don't you have any allegiance to  the men that fought and died in that war. and what it represented. ?
I can't believe that you have changed this much. I must have misunderstood you.


Of course I am well aware of the Korean War and the autrocities committed by the Koreans and the Chinese.  I could relate many details that we heard at the time or from official sources after I entered the Air Force.  They are too vivid to post here.  There is the official report of how a dozen MPs that stayed back to destroy classified documents and how they were killed, or the details of how a truckload of wounded were killed by the Chinese after being soaked in gasoline.

 

But remember the Germans and Japanese who was as bad or worse.  They are now our allies. 

 

And there is the saying about turning enemies to friends.  Isn't that worth a try?

Honored Social Butterfly

Der Trumper has no interest in de-nuclearization of the Korean Penisnula - he's interested in all that under-developed real estate in North Korea and how he can get in on the ground floor if sanctions are lifted, regardless of what Kim does with his nukes or his ICBMs (which he calls "space launch vehicles").

 

It is possible Kim feels secure enough with his nukes and ICBMs that he'll open the country up for very select trade if the sanctions are lifted, and at the head of the list of those getting in will be his new BFF Lemontop.

Honored Social Butterfly


@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:


Tx.  your post is surprising. you, are a military man that saw so many Americans die in the Korean War now really thinking that NK  could be our friend? That is practically thinking that the Nazis if they existed today could of use  to this country. 
Have you forgotten what kind of country NK  represents.?  don't you approve of Democracies any longer? don't you have any allegiance to  the men that fought and died in that war. and what it represented. ?
I can't believe that you have changed this much. I must have misunderstood you.


Of course I am well aware of the Korean War and the autrocities committed by the Koreans and the Chinese.  I could relate many details that we heard at the time or from official sources after I entered the Air Force.  They are too vivid to post here.  There is the official report of how a dozen MPs that stayed back to destroy classified documents and how they were killed, or the details of how a truckload of wounded were killed by the Chinese after being soaked in gasoline.

 

But remember the Germans and Japanese who was as bad or worse.  They are now our allies. 

 

And there is the saying about turning enemies to friends.  Isn't that worth a try?


The Germans had Japanese unconditionally surrendered to the US and unilaterally  gave up their arms, and accepted Constitutions written by the US.  So there is no difference?

So it begins.
Honored Social Butterfly


@MIseker wrote:


The Germans had Japanese unconditionally surrendered to the US and unilaterally  gave up their arms, and accepted Constitutions written by the US.  So there is no difference?


Were you around to remember that?  We could bring up Vietnam.  There was no unconditional surrender there either. Yet they have become trading partners.  We have two bedroom suites manufactured in Vietnam that is solid wood that costs several thousands of dollars. 

 

Also, the house my wife grew up in is now a McDonalds. The town is a tourist attraction where Americans are common, especially for their tailoring industry.  So we shouldn't help North Korean people either?

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Honored Social Butterfly

Were you around to remember that?  We could bring up Vietnam.  There was no unconditional surrender there either. Yet they have become trading partners.  We have two bedroom suites manufactured in Vietnam that is solid wood that costs several thousands of dollars. 

 

Vietnam doesn't have a million man standing army on the door step of an ally, they don't have nukes either, and far as I know Vietnam hasn't threatened any of it's neighbors since the end of the Vietnam war. 

 

They haven't been belligerent, North Korea has.

Honored Social Butterfly


@gruffstuff wrote:

They haven't been belligerent, North Korea has.


So your philosophy is that once an enemy, forever an enemy?  Going on that thought, England would still be considered an enemy country, along with Germany, Japan,Italy, etc.  Even Spain since they were also back in1898.

 

Are we in George Orwell's '1984'? 

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@gruffstuff wrote:

 

 

Vietnam doesn't have a million man standing army on the door step of an ally, they don't have nukes either, and far as I know Vietnam hasn't threatened any of it's neighbors since the end of the Vietnam war. 

 

They haven't been belligerent, North Korea has.


Of course you're not aware that Vietnam and China have mostly been enemies for thousands of years?  Even over the past several decades there has been clashes between the two.  There is contention between the two over oil rich deposits in the off-shore waters of Vietnam, of which China claims is in their sphere of influence.

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Of course you're not aware that Vietnam and China have mostly been enemies for thousands of years?

 

 

Yes I am, it's the main reason the whole domino theory justification for the Vietnam War was baloney.

 

Vietnam didn't trust China, they knew if they let China in, China would never leave.

 

It is a case where understanding or ignoring  history could have saved a lot of grief. Ho Chi Minh reached out to Truman after WWII, but nothing came of it because Ho Chi Min was a communist.

 

Vietnam still doesn't trust China, with good reason.

 

I think they were correct in their assessment and still understand the Chinese better then Americans do.

 

So now we should trust the Chinese and Russian satellite state of North Korea?

 

No we should not, but we should normalize relations, IF North Korea basically does what it has said it will do, give up nukes and nuclear weapons, and that would include fissile materials, which come from nuclear reactors, OR agree to an  IAEA  inspection protocol of those reactors to verify the fissile  materials are disposed of in such a way that can't be used for weapons.

 

That includes dirty bombs.

 

North Korea has a substantial artillery system that can strike Seoul from hardened positions,  even without Nukes they inflict terrible damage, with dirty artillery shells they could do damage that would be very difficult or impossible to clean up.

 

I don't doubt  they have such weapons, along with poison  gas and chemical weapons.

 

The question is do you trust North Korea to not use those weapons?

 

If the answer is yes, explain why.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As6y5eI01XE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:


The Germans had Japanese unconditionally surrendered to the US and unilaterally  gave up their arms, and accepted Constitutions written by the US.  So there is no difference?


Were you around to remember that?  We could bring up Vietnam.  There was no unconditional surrender there either. Yet they have become trading partners.  We have two bedroom suites manufactured in Vietnam that is solid wood that costs several thousands of dollars. 

 

Also, the house my wife grew up in is now a McDonalds. The town is a tourist attraction where Americans are common, especially for their tailoring industry.  So we shouldn't help North Korean people either?


you are the one that made the equal comparison Tx. I dont NEED to be as old as you to know what went on at the end of WWII...as i doubt you remember everything that happened in 1945. I do study history a bit..probably 10 times more than you.

 

So it begins.
Honored Social Butterfly


@MIseker wrote:


you are the one that made the equal comparison Tx. I dont NEED to be as old as you to know what went on at the end of WWII...as i doubt you remember everything that happened in 1945. I do study history a bit..probably 10 times more than you.

 


Yes, there is a comparison between Germany, Japan, North Korea, China and Vietnam.  We fought wars against all of them.  They committed many atrocities on people, including our soldiers who was captured.  Yet we extended the hand of friendship once the hostilities ceased.

 

The United States doesn't get even with former enemies but attempts to turn them into friends. If Trump can successfully swing this deal we would have access to their vast resources, plus an outlet for consumer goods, plus inexpensive quality labor as we found in Vietnam and other Asian countries.

 

Yes, you probably studied history, but it is different from living it.  Doubt you've studied history even as much as I have...not only have I been a history buff for around 8 decades, but have experienced it in the emotions of the time during that period.

 

According to your theories, you are being selective because of basic prejudices against some countries or ethnic groups.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:


 

 

But remember the Germans and Japanese who was as bad or worse.  They are now our allies. 

 

And there is the saying about turning enemies to friends.  Isn't that worth a try?


Tx  are you forgetting the changes that these two countries have had in all these years. what changes do you attribute to the NK. have they changed and become a Democracy? Aren't t they still  a ruthless dictatorship?  Killing people, jailing them starving them there is no freedom in that country, and you want to compare them with Japan and Germany of today and what they become after WWII? Are you sure that you want NK as our friend?

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@Roxanna35 wrote:


Tx  are you forgetting the changes that these two countries have had in all these years. what changes do you attribute to the NK. have they changed and become a Democracy? Aren't t they still  a ruthless dictatorship?  Killing people, jailing them starving them there is no freedom in that country, and you want to compare them with Japan and Germany of today and what they become after WWII? Are you sure that you want NK as our friend?


I would think that it would help to descalate tensions between us and North Korea. South Korea has set the pace, so why shouldn't we?  Wasn't normalization attempted with Cuba, but it was the Cuban refugees who put a damper on that.  Why?

 

I get the idea here that it isn't just that Trump accomplished something Obama didn't that is the problem with liberals...they just can't stand that he took advantage of a possible breakthrough in relations.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:


Tx  are you forgetting the changes that these two countries have had in all these years. what changes do you attribute to the NK. have they changed and become a Democracy? Aren't t they still  a ruthless dictatorship?  Killing people, jailing them starving them there is no freedom in that country, and you want to compare them with Japan and Germany of today and what they become after WWII? Are you sure that you want NK as our friend?


I would think that it would help to descalate tensions between us and North Korea. South Korea has set the pace, so why shouldn't we?  Wasn't normalization attempted with Cuba, but it was the Cuban refugees who put a damper on that.  Why?

 

I get the idea here that it isn't just that Trump accomplished something Obama didn't that is the problem with liberals...they just can't stand that he took advantage of a possible breakthrough in relations.


I would like to have the poster of this message board see the effects of what happens to an individual that is caught up in a cult and all os a sudden, his past life and experiences have no meaning or have changed. Tx  have you shown any of these post to any of your children? to your wife. and what do they think about your change.?

no name
Honored Social Butterfly


@Roxanna35 wrote:


I would like to have the poster of this message board see the effects of what happens to an individual that is caught up in a cult and all os a sudden, his past life and experiences have no meaning or have changed. Tx  have you shown any of these post to any of your children? to your wife. and what do they think about your change.?


We don't discuss politics at home...do you?  Does your family discuss politics and allow them to control thinking?   They have no use for this site but have other interests.  You should see the flowers my wife is mostly concerned about.  She has no interest in politics.  They are not pertinent to any discussion here.  You now seem to be emulating another poster who likes to bring family into these discussions.

 

I haven't changed, still the independent thinker I've always been.  Even if I have, don't I have the right to do so? 

 

Further, I base my opinions on my life experiences.  But what is it to you or anyone here what my opinion of other nations is?  And what do you know of my personal experiences has been? 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:


I would like to have the poster of this message board see the effects of what happens to an individual that is caught up in a cult and all os a sudden, his past life and experiences have no meaning or have changed. Tx  have you shown any of these post to any of your children? to your wife. and what do they think about your change.?


We don't discuss politics at home...do you?  Does your family discuss politics and allow them to control thinking?   They have no use for this site but have other interests.  You should see the flowers my wife is mostly concerned about.  She has no interest in politics.  They are not pertinent to any discussion here.  You now seem to be emulating another poster who likes to bring family into these discussions.

 

I haven't changed, still the independent thinker I've always been.  Even if I have, don't I have the right to do so? 

 

Further, I base my opinions on my life experiences.  But what is it to you or anyone here what my opinion of other nations is?  And what do you know of my personal experiences has been? 


No Tx, I don't want to bring family into any of this, but your wife and I have very similar backgrounds and I cannot even conceive that she would if she knew that you now are applauding the Dictatorship that exists in NK is something that you approved. Sorry, I do'n't believe that of her, as you have told us she is a very intelligent woman and very well educated. I have lots of respect for her.

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