Find answers to your Social Security questions in the AARP Social Security resource center.

Reply
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
174
Views

Re: He's a SOCIALIST... Don't you understand.... A SOCIALIST...

174 Views
Message 1 of 54

chas - you have several lengthy posts in which your basic argument seems to be with the word "free". I agree, nothing is free, someone pays for it. However, in any wealth redistribution scheme something is "free" to the recipient. His or her only contribution is "inablilty to pay".


Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
174
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
176
Views

Re: He's a SOCIALIST... Don't you understand.... A SOCIALIST...

176 Views
Message 2 of 54

@ChasKy53 wrote:


Anti- Irish and Catholic reflect bias. Anti-Socialist reflects differing political ideologies. Anti socialist screams and whines reflects unfounded fear. Did you not notice I was pointing out the difference between ant-Catholic and anti-Socialist?

 

Free military - he defense of the nation is the proper role of the government.  Disingenuous again. No such thing as "free military".  Talk to your fellow lefties who compare government provided military wit h government provided healthcare.

 

Free roads - a way for the nation and it's economy to grow. Disingenuous. No such thing as "free roads". See above.

 

Free education (as it is) - prepares children to be adults. Disingenuous. No such thing as "free education". See above.

 

But, hey, you did get to type "disingenuous" multiple times.

 

All that is far different from any "free" which (for example) is means tested. Higher education - prepares students for what? Jobs. An engineering degree qualifies one to become an engineer. (just one example). Yes, but not basically "one size fits all" as the lower grades. The lower grade are fairly standard understanding of the basics for adulthood. But university? Yes. Without some higher education most are sentenced to low paying jobs and even poverty. It seems you would want people educated so that as adults they are not on "free stuff" like food stamps, Medicaid, etc. Higher education in what fields?

 

My problem with the sort of "frees" currently under discussion is that they create a dependency on government that pose a danger to freedom. There are no "frees" under discussion, try and keep up. I agree. Tell your fellow Socialists declaring themselves for office.

 

Denmark is held as an example that works. The literacy rate in Denmark for 15 and above is about 99%. An example of what de-funding our public school systems has done, our students have fallen behind in education statistics. Thanks for pointing that out. You're welcome - but you are also wrong. Before we try to emulate their higher education system, we should probably try to figure out how to emulate their lower education system. Denmark has acknowledged the need for quality education, including higher education, as a need to make a society more successful. It's a shame Cons don't see that and advocate the same for America. The literacy rate at the age of 15 has nothing to do with higher education - except preparation for it which we lack.


 


 

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
176
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
190
Views

Re: He's a SOCIALIST... Don't you understand.... A SOCIALIST...

190 Views
Message 3 of 54

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

Try to focus on either socialized medicine or "free" university education.


Let's see...which one is the subject of the thread......oh right NEITHER. 

 

This was about the fact that screaming "He's a socialist" today has about the same impact as screaming "He's Irish".  And why?  Because what the conservatives call Socialism (it really is not) is rapidly being favored by the millennial and following generations. And why is that, you ask.  Because the countries using universal health care and universal secondary education are doing better than America.  Tough to argue with success, eh? 


And when the government says "free" with regard to a service to the people (actually government provided by wealth redistribution) they are offering a socialist program. So, they really are related to shouting "socialist" - but not "Irish".


You seem to be making up your own definition of Socialist.  Could you point me to where anyone in the government called a service  like, oh the military, roads, public schools, or health care "free"? Only Conservatives use that term to describe government funded programs. 

 

When John F. Kennedy ran for the White House we heard "But he is Catholic" and "But he is Irish" as two reasons to vote Republican.  Now the new phrase is "But he is a Socialist" and it is having the same effect on new voters. Why? Because all those "Socialist" (Republican term) programs in other countries have been so successful.  Tough to argue with success. 


Anti- Irish and Catholic reflect bias. Anti-Socialist reflects differing political ideologies.

 

Free military - he defense of the nation is the proper role of the government. 

 

Free roads - a way for the nation and it's economy to grow.

 

Free education (as it is) - prepares children to be adults.

 

All that is far different from any "free" which (for example) is means tested. Higher education - prepares students for what? The lower grade are fairly standard understanding of the basics for adulthood. But university?

 

My problem with the sort of "frees" currently under discussion is that they create a dependency on government that pose a danger to freedom.

 

Denmark is held as an example that works. The literacy rate in Denmark for 15 and above is about 99%.  Before we try to emulate their higher education system, we should probably try to figure out how to emulate their lower education system.


And their health Care (less money, better outcomes), and their childcare for all, and their retirement plan, and their elder care............gee. America really is slipping into the stone age while trying to compete with these nations. 


The literacy rate comparison shows that we are obviously doing something wrong that "free" healthcare or "free" anything will not fix. If our education system is so bad by comparison, why would you think that just "throw money at it" will fix any other issues (healthcare in this case)?

 

If you want us to emulate other nations, let's consider more than just giving "free".

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
190
Views
Highlighted
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
193
Views

Re: He's a SOCIALIST... Don't you understand.... A SOCIALIST...

193 Views
Message 4 of 54

@Olderscout66 wrote:


Another GOPer LIE. Since Reagan took the money from Revenue sharing and gave it to the Uberrich, parents have had to PAY hundreds of dollars each session to RENT textbooks, buy supplies, and pay more hundreds for their child to participate in any activities at the school. All this because Republicans keep refusing to tax those who can pay without changing their lifestlye and insist the burden of running the country fall on those who will suffer the most.

 

America was NOT a Socialist State when Ike was President and the American Standard of Living was the envy of the World. Nothing has changed that cannot be UNchanged if we get rid of the Party of NO that has replaced the GOP.


Public schools are still free. The subject is "free" higher education.

 

You keep up with your bumpersticker about the Reagan tax cuts (talk about holding a grudge!!!) even though I have posted charts showing the lack of effect any fed changes have made.

 

Do you have any thoughts on "free" university level education?

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
193
Views
Treasured Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
206
Views

Re: He's a SOCIALIST... Don't you understand.... A SOCIALIST...

206 Views
Message 5 of 54

@ChasKy53 wrote:

 

Arguing against success is ........... well .......... not very smart.


The government hasn't said "free", stop being disingenuous. Universal health care and public education are not "socialist" programs. Why do ultra-conservatives continually lie about that?

Lying is what conservatives do. Look at their leader, the record holder of lying and more every day.

 

I did ask where the government said "free" and I heard crickets.  Never ask a conservative to prove their statements. They never can. 

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
206
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
212
Views

Re: He's a SOCIALIST... Don't you understand.... A SOCIALIST...

212 Views
Message 6 of 54

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

Try to focus on either socialized medicine or "free" university education.


Let's see...which one is the subject of the thread......oh right NEITHER. 

 

This was about the fact that screaming "He's a socialist" today has about the same impact as screaming "He's Irish".  And why?  Because what the conservatives call Socialism (it really is not) is rapidly being favored by the millennial and following generations. And why is that, you ask.  Because the countries using universal health care and universal secondary education are doing better than America.  Tough to argue with success, eh? 


And when the government says "free" with regard to a service to the people (actually government provided by wealth redistribution) they are offering a socialist program. So, they really are related to shouting "socialist" - but not "Irish".


You seem to be making up your own definition of Socialist.  Could you point me to where anyone in the government called a service  like, oh the military, roads, public schools, or health care "free"? Only Conservatives use that term to describe government funded programs. 

 

When John F. Kennedy ran for the White House we heard "But he is Catholic" and "But he is Irish" as two reasons to vote Republican.  Now the new phrase is "But he is a Socialist" and it is having the same effect on new voters. Why? Because all those "Socialist" (Republican term) programs in other countries have been so successful.  Tough to argue with success. 


Anti- Irish and Catholic reflect bias. Anti-Socialist reflects differing political ideologies. Anti socialist screams and whines reflects unfounded fear.

 

Free military - he defense of the nation is the proper role of the government.  Disingenuous again. No such thing as "free military".

 

Free roads - a way for the nation and it's economy to grow. Disingenuous. No such thing as "free roads".

 

Free education (as it is) - prepares children to be adults. Disingenuous. No such thing as "free education".

 

All that is far different from any "free" which (for example) is means tested. Higher education - prepares students for what? Jobs. An engineering degree qualifies one to become an engineer. (just one example). The lower grade are fairly standard understanding of the basics for adulthood. But university? Yes. Without some higher education most are sentenced to low paying jobs and even poverty. It seems you would want people educated so that as adults they are not on "free stuff" like food stamps, Medicaid, etc.

 

My problem with the sort of "frees" currently under discussion is that they create a dependency on government that pose a danger to freedom. There are no "frees" under discussion, try and keep up.

 

Denmark is held as an example that works. The literacy rate in Denmark for 15 and above is about 99%. An example of what de-funding our public school systems has done, our students have fallen behind in education statistics. Thanks for pointing that out.  Before we try to emulate their higher education system, we should probably try to figure out how to emulate their lower education system. Denmark has acknowledged the need for quality education, including higher education, as a need to make a society more successful. It's a shame Cons don't see that and advocate the same for America.


 


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
212
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
217
Views

Re: He's a SOCIALIST... Don't you understand.... A SOCIALIST...

217 Views
Message 7 of 54

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

Try to focus on either socialized medicine or "free" university education.


Let's see...which one is the subject of the thread......oh right NEITHER. 

 

This was about the fact that screaming "He's a socialist" today has about the same impact as screaming "He's Irish".  And why?  Because what the conservatives call Socialism (it really is not) is rapidly being favored by the millennial and following generations. And why is that, you ask.  Because the countries using universal health care and universal secondary education are doing better than America.  Tough to argue with success, eh? 


And when the government says "free" with regard to a service to the people (actually government provided by wealth redistribution) they are offering a socialist program. So, they really are related to shouting "socialist" - but not "Irish".


The government hasn't said "free", stop being disingenuous. Universal health care and public education are not "socialist" programs. Why do ultra-conservatives continually lie about that?

 

Arguing against success is ........... well .......... not very smart.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
217
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
223
Views

Re: He's a SOCIALIST... Don't you understand.... A SOCIALIST...

223 Views
Message 8 of 54

@rk9152 wrote:

?


Because public school education is to provide children the basic requirements for life (the three Rs for example) and lay the groundwork for future education. And for the most part options are not offered. Higher Education is for adults and many options are offered many of which involve career choices.


You are way out of touch. Many "options" or electives are offered in grades 9 through 12 in our public and private schools. Many 'elective' courses were offered when I went to school in the 60's and there are many more today.  Please try and keep up.

 

The "requirements for life" (or the need for education) has changes drastically. Higher education than grade 12 in high school is needed today, our public schools should provide that. Cons never want to see the masses educated, the higher educated have a tendency to vote against conservatives.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
223
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
227
Views

Re: He's a SOCIALIST... Don't you understand.... A SOCIALIST...

227 Views
Message 9 of 54

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

Let's look at this "free" healthcare and "free" education idea - understanding that it really isn't free - it's just that someone else is paying for it. Why do you repeatedly bring up "free health care"? No one here has advocated for that. That's why I use parens. For some" it is "paid for by somebody else".

So we should have all private schools and anyone attending should have to pay tuition? Oh, I'm sure we would then have the smartest and most successful society in the wrold (not).

 

If the government is paying for your healthcare, and since some life style issues are detrimental to your health - will the government have the power to adjust those life style issue. Why do you keep erroneously repeating "government paying for health care"? People would be paying for health care through a tax based national health care plan. So certain life style issues are detrimental to your health today. I say NO, the government would not have the "power to adjust those life styles"............ no more than insurance companies have that power when we give money to them to pay for our health care. Yes, some would be paying for their care and the care of others. Heaven forbid having a society where the less fortunate, disabled, and the old are taken care of.

 

Education - many students drive up incredible debt on degrees that they are not suited for and there are no jobs for. Will the government determine, based on the individual's abilities and the needs of the economy which courses are taken by which students? Do you think the government should be doing that? Does the government decide what is taught in grade school and high school? Does the government decide what students take certain elective classes in high school today? Of course they don't, so what makes you think it would be any different if college was included? People pay for public education through their taxes.  The things certain individuals bring up in reference to socialism is quite entertaining. Neither of your points (health care and education), and the questions you pose have nothing to do with socialism. If the government is going to offer "free" higher education, does the recipient not have some obligation? Does the government not have the right to expect some positive results from the education it is paying for? I can't see using tax payer money so some slug can live free as a student to get a Masters in "Rare Incan Masonry".

The government will never offer "FREE" higher education. The government doesn't pay for education, the American people do through taxes (and not income tax). Doesn't really matter what you can or cannot "see".


 


 


 


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
227
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
228
Views

Re: He's a SOCIALIST... Don't you understand.... A SOCIALIST...

228 Views
Message 10 of 54

@rk9152 wrote:

 


Public schools are still free. The subject is "free" higher education.

 

No rk, public schools are not "still free". They have never been free, aren't "free" today, and never will be free. They are paid for through taxes.

 

And ........... the subject is not "free" higher education, it is including higher education in our tax based public school system.


 


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
228
Views
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Users
Announcements

Roundtable Discussion:
Ask questions and get advice from fellow entrepreneurs
Now through Nov. 22

Top Authors