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Honored Social Butterfly

HR1384 or MEDICARE FOR ALL

I have read and printed all ten pages of that summary,  and there are many questions that I have regarding this bill. 

Instead of arguing I would appreciate if you would post what are the things that you find comfortable. I will also post the things that concern me. and perhaps we can actually learn from one another.

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Rker wrote-there are many sections that I will discuss right here and that we should look at them carefully and then really understand how is going to be implemented before we say Medicare for All is the bomb----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I agree with RKER. We shouldn`t jump into something before benefits and consequences can be studied . This is what happened with ACA(Obamacare) and it turned out to be a disaster for most peole when it came to cost and Doctors choice and medical facilities that could be used. Also keep in mind that  whenever the government gets involved with any program it usually loses money and eventually  drives our national debt deeper in the hole.  With private insurers there is always competition which tend to keep cost down.  FYI-     A lot of people who don`t have Medicare ,think it is free or the cost is very low. This can be further from the truth. Seniors often  pay $400/month  or more premiums per person if they have regular medicare ,supplement  and drug coverage. Imagine if a younger family of 4 has to pay this under a Single Payer system.

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@easyed598 wrote:

Rker wrote-there are many sections that I will discuss right here and that we should look at them carefully and then really understand how is going to be implemented before we say Medicare for All is the bomb----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I agree with RKER. We shouldn`t jump into something before benefits and consequences can be studied . This is what happened with ACA(Obamacare) and it turned out to be a disaster for most peole when it came to cost and Doctors choice and medical facilities that could be used. Also keep in mind that  whenever the government gets involved with any program it usually loses money and eventually  drives our national debt deeper in the hole.  With private insurers there is always competition which tend to keep cost down.  FYI-     A lot of people who don`t have Medicare ,think it is free or the cost is very low. This can be further from the truth. Seniors often  pay $400/month  or more premiums per person if they have regular medicare ,supplement  and drug coverage. Imagine if a younger family of 4 has to pay this under a Single Payer system.


Here once again we see bad information being passed on. Lets talk about the ACA and cost. The far right does not want the people of this country to have health coverage and that is their goal. The ACA was based on all being insured, and medicaid being expanded was part of that. Another part was the use of Co op type carriers. Well the far right refused to expand medicaid and got the Courts to go along it was made voluntary, states controlled by the far right did not expand it. That ended the all being covered part which drove up cost. On the co-op new regs were issued which changed the way they were looked at by state law. What had been an assets was changed to a liability so a lot went out of business. Increased cost followed. It took a few years but you saw the cost of health insurance go down as the full effects of the ACA came into play which is normal with this type of insurance. No one lost their Dr, due to the ACA. Insurance Carriers, and Providers started  to make use of networks faster that caused that. The use of networks has provided cost savings to Carriers, and inspite of what you have heard worked. The ACA mandated Carriers loss ration of 80%. The average loss ration was about 60% and under medicare is about 95% That alone reduces cost. Drug cost went out of control because the far right would not allow medicare to deal with the drug makers, and changed laws so Drug Makers could keep drugs under their control for a longer time period. If you want a program of health care for all you need a medicare for all approach, and that is why you hear nonstop from the far right how bad it is, and the leaders put out the talking points just about everyday to the enablers using vehicles like FOX News. Do not think for one second this is not a top down driven effort to kill health care for all. As a Gov. of GA once said the answer is let them die in the streets.

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I have a Medicare Advantage program and is a PPO program I can go to any  doctor that will accept my plan and of course will pay more than if I go to a Network  doctor. but I prefer it that way. I am  very picky when it comes to Dr's  and hospitals.

I do not want to loose that ability to de and search what what I want to do in the health care issue.

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Medicaid is another question that has to be answered to those who can`t afford Medicare.

Honored Social Butterfly

Medicare for All requires government single payer. This would eliminate all private insurers who now  are a important part  of our current health care. Think about it.  Employers would no longer insure their employees who usually get really good rates on their premiums. 320 million people who will be thrown into the government bureaucracy.  Seniors-- private insurance companies who usually provide medicare advantage and medicare supplements will be gone. Who will be paying the 20% that medicare doesn`t cover now??? Also who will take over the  Drug coverage that private companies now supply seniors.?  I see a nightmare scenario in the making that usually happens when the government gets involved in anything.

Honored Social Butterfly

easy asks "Who will be paying the 20% that medicare doesn`t cover now???"

-----------------

How about Properly Tax the Insanely Wealthy , who have paid NO TAX on their TRILLIONS hidden in Tax Free Overseas Accounts or is that too painful for them ?

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@mandm84 wrote:

easy asks "Who will be paying the 20% that medicare doesn`t cover now???"

-----------------

How about Properly Tax the Insanely Wealthy , who have paid NO TAX on their TRILLIONS hidden in Tax Free Overseas Accounts or is that too painful for them ?


Do you have some inside knowledge the the "insanely wealthy" have paid no tax on the money that (you claim) are in overseas tax free accounts? Does the left get updates on where tax are and who they are? How about taxing those that require the "medicare for all"?

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@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@mandm84 wrote:

easy asks "Who will be paying the 20% that medicare doesn`t cover now???"

-----------------

How about Properly Tax the Insanely Wealthy , who have paid NO TAX on their TRILLIONS hidden in Tax Free Overseas Accounts or is that too painful for them ?


Do you have some inside knowledge the the "insanely wealthy" have paid no tax on the money that (you claim) are in overseas tax free accounts? Does the left get updates on where tax are and who they are? How about taxing those that require the "medicare for all"?


You don't know about the multiple $trillions$ that the wealthy have sheltered in tax free off shore accounts?  Sorry you are so uninformed about this. Try the Cayman Islands, for one.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@mandm84 wrote:

easy asks "Who will be paying the 20% that medicare doesn`t cover now???"

-----------------

How about Properly Tax the Insanely Wealthy , who have paid NO TAX on their TRILLIONS hidden in Tax Free Overseas Accounts or is that too painful for them ?


Do you have some inside knowledge the the "insanely wealthy" have paid no tax on the money that (you claim) are in overseas tax free accounts? Does the left get updates on where tax are and who they are? How about taxing those that require the "medicare for all"?


You don't know about the multiple $trillions$ that the wealthy have sheltered in tax free off shore accounts?  Sorry you are so uninformed about this. Try the Cayman Islands, for one.


Think this is jumping the guns a bit since there is little to no determination of how a single payer system would be financed in total - Individuals / Employers / Corps / Wealth tax / Breathing Tax.

 

Heck there isn't even a total cost yet because there is no actual plan yet - the supportive Dems keep adding more and more.  The last question that I head asked in the MSM of the newest plan (H.R. 1384) was if transgender surgery would be covered or is this considered cosmetic.

 

There will be tons of questions about coverage from every (kind of health related) special interest group of our society -   Define "Basic" coverage - no such thing especially if something you want covered isn't considered "basic" -

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I refuse to discuss this issue if any political agenda is introduce in this discussion. I couldn't care less who introduced this Medicare for All bill and what it says in that bill 1384  What I will discuss is what is trying to be introduced and I am afraid that people because of their laziness in not wanting to research or read this bill will sand up raise their hands and applaud at something that in my view has very little to offer as is written.

I want to see lots of changes and lots of explanations of  this bill before I blindly put a rubber stamp on Medicare for All.

And for all of you that have become the new Democratic Tea Party I will tell you ,I do not consider myself a pro Administration because I am raising my voice regarding this Medicare for All.

I will continue to ask questions and want answers and become satisfy before these idiots completely squander the opportunity to really have a National Health Care system that will be what this country needs.

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@Roxanna35 wrote:

I refuse to discuss this issue if any political agenda is introduce in this discussion. I couldn't care less who introduced this Medicare for All bill and what it says in that bill 1384  What I will discuss is what is trying to be introduced and I am afraid that people because of their laziness in not wanting to research or read this bill will sand up raise their hands and applaud at something that in my view has very little to offer as is written.

I want to see lots of changes and lots of explanations of  this bill before I blindly put a rubber stamp on Medicare for All.

And for all of you that have become the new Democratic Tea Party I will tell you ,I do not consider myself a pro Administration because I am raising my voice regarding this Medicare for All.

I will continue to ask questions and want answers and become satisfy before these idiots completely squander the opportunity to really have a National Health Care system that will be what this country needs.


Hate to break the news to you but a political agenda has awlays been part of this issue, and always will be. It used to be the path to the end result. Now with the far right they want to kill all health care that a person does not pay for. As a far right Gov. of GA told us let therm die in the streets. Trump understand none of this subject and that is why we have the mess. Trump has been for single payer, govt fully paid, no government, Insurance Co approach etc. There will be nothing done till Trump leaves.

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@john258 wrote:


Hate to break the news to you but a political agenda has awlays been part of this issue, and always will be. It used to be the path to the end result. Now with the far right they want to kill all health care that a person does not pay for. As a far right Gov. of GA told us let therm die in the streets. Trump understand none of this subject and that is why we have the mess. Trump has been for single payer, govt fully paid, no government, Insurance Co approach etc. There will be nothing done till Trump leaves.


In that case then this country is not ready to have anything that is worth having. sorry, but questioning a program that will affect all our lives and trying to understand it  well, is an obligation that we need to have.

If by your words, you are already blamingb the Right, the Rebpublicans etc. then  in that case all is lost before it starts.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@Roxanna35 wrote:

@john258 wrote:


Hate to break the news to you but a political agenda has awlays been part of this issue, and always will be. It used to be the path to the end result. Now with the far right they want to kill all health care that a person does not pay for. As a far right Gov. of GA told us let therm die in the streets. Trump understand none of this subject and that is why we have the mess. Trump has been for single payer, govt fully paid, no government, Insurance Co approach etc. There will be nothing done till Trump leaves.


In that case then this country is not ready to have anything that is worth having. sorry, but questioning a program that will affect all our lives and trying to understand it  well, is an obligation that we need to have.

If by your words, you are already blamingb the Right, the Rebpublicans etc. then  in that case all is lost before it starts.


The far right now controls the Reb. party and the far right have tried to stop every type of health improvement we ever did and that is fact. You place blame where it is earned, and then try and marginalize  that so you can move forwarded. People who do not learn from history will always repeat the mistakes history shows were made. Your view fits right into to that. When Trump is gone, and the far right no longer controls the opposition party good people can solve this problem until then it will not be solved.

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@john258 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:


The far right now controls the Reb. party and the far right have tried to stop every type of health improvement we ever did and that is fact. You place blame where it is earned, and then try and marginalize  that so you can move forwarded. People who do not learn from history will always repeat the mistakes history shows were made. Your view fits right into to that. When Trump is gone, and the far right no longer controls the opposition party good people can solve this problem until then it will not be solved.


I guess that my optimism regarding  Americans is not contagious. I do realize the reality of this Republican Party and have posted many times that this is not the Republican Party but the Trump 's Party and never called his followers Republicans at all.
Moving forward in not marginalizing in my view. but I guess it is in yours.  On the contrary, l have always known that learning for history is what forms our own experiences.  I don't think that we all can wait that long. Trump may be with us a long time, and I don;t think that this country can withstand another 6 years with this individual. So as you can see, we differ in many things and view things in a different light. 
But that is not what we are discussing. is it? We are discussing Medicare for All, and as such and because is something that will touch me in a direct manner, I want to be able to understand it, be able to point out what I feel is wrong. and to see the necessary changes that need to happen before I fee secure enough to endorse the plan.

Frankly, I couldn't care less who is the Party that puts this plan into action. I simply want to see this country have what I have bee saying now for years.  A national healthcare system.

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@Roxanna35 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:


The far right now controls the Reb. party and the far right have tried to stop every type of health improvement we ever did and that is fact. You place blame where it is earned, and then try and marginalize  that so you can move forwarded. People who do not learn from history will always repeat the mistakes history shows were made. Your view fits right into to that. When Trump is gone, and the far right no longer controls the opposition party good people can solve this problem until then it will not be solved.


I guess that my optimism regarding  Americans is not contagious. I do realize the reality of this Republican Party and have posted many times that this is not the Republican Party but the Trump 's Party and never called his followers Republicans at all.
Moving forward in not marginalizing in my view. but I guess it is in yours.  On the contrary, l have always known that learning for history is what forms our own experiences.  I don't think that we all can wait that long. Trump may be with us a long time, and I don;t think that this country can withstand another 6 years with this individual. So as you can see, we differ in many things and view things in a different light. 
But that is not what we are discussing. is it? We are discussing Medicare for All, and as such and because is something that will touch me in a direct manner, I want to be able to understand it, be able to point out what I feel is wrong. and to see the necessary changes that need to happen before I fee secure enough to endorse the plan.

Frankly, I couldn't care less who is the Party that puts this plan into action. I simply want to see this country have what I have bee saying now for years.  A national healthcare system.


Oh but we are. You can not and will not have Medicare for all or just keep medicare unless the Trump problem is solved. If you want a good health program passed then start with the plan to make that possible by seeing that Trump is not relected. See that is the difference between knowing the full subject, and just part of the subject.

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We are going off topic, this thread was created in order to discuss what we thought of the program called Medicare for All and not Trump of his idiotic tactics.

We are going to be impacted by this law, lets understand it, let's read it and discuss what we think is right and what we think is wrong.

There is much to discuss and jumping into politics, sorry, I am not interested at this point in time.

There are important issue like what they are going to do with the drug companies and how they will achieve those changes. Anyone? any ideas? do you all agree as to how is going to be implemented?

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@Roxanna35 wrote:

We are going off topic, this thread was created in order to discuss what we thought of the program called Medicare for All and not Trump of his idiotic tactics.

We are going to be impacted by this law, lets understand it, let's read it and discuss what we think is right and what we think is wrong.

There is much to discuss and jumping into politics, sorry, I am not interested at this point in time.

There are important issue like what they are going to do with the drug companies and how they will achieve those changes. Anyone? any ideas? do you all agree as to how is going to be implemented?


No we are on topic as you can not discuss MEDICARE FOR ALL without solving the underlying problem of not even being able to put a program together until we know what Trump will or will not do, and that is why we need to solve that part of medicare for all first. Have no fear we will not be impacted by this law until the Trump problem has gone away. To talk about the rest of a new health program now is a total waste of time. When we do get to talking about Medicare for all Approach we will be in politics big time as that is what will be driving the debate. The Drug Cos. got to where they are now by politics. We do not need ideas as everyone knows what the solution to the Drug Cos is, we just need to solve the politics end of it. No one knows how this will end up and if it is ever going to be implemented. No one thought Trump could be elected and he was.

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The huge improvement over the current non-system is the creation of a "Government Option" - President Obama wanted this, but could not get it past the GOPers.

 

The GOVERNMENT OPTION is the "for all" piece, it's the coverage that will be provided to EVERYONE, and yes, there'll be some tax to pay for it, but it should be about HALF of what you now pay for that level of coverage with your private insurance.

 

The reason the bill says nobody can offer this coverage is it would be a scam - selling you something you already have at no (direct) cost. So all insurance plans would have to be re-jiggered to BEGIN where this basic coverage ends, my guess is the minimum will look very much like the Obamacare Bronze, with lower or no deductible and a small copay, probably $20-$50 per visit, to discourage frivilous use of the medical facilities. PRIVATE INSURANCE WILL BE AVALIABLE FOR ADDITIONAL COVERAGE, pretty much like it is now, but with a few significant changes in favor of the INSURED.

 

First is it will COST MUCH LESS. The savings will come because there will be ONE set of claims forms and ONE payment schedule for services provided. Back in the 80's Reagan's Surgeon General Coop did a "infomercial" telling of a study his office did showing overhead for insurance companies and hospitals could be cut 20% if they would just agree to use one of FIVE sets of coverage and payment schedules. Going to ONE will cut a bunch more.

 

The next round of savings will come from the elimination of all the "Charge Master" systems providers use to MAXIMIZE PROFITS for their member hospitals and clinics.

 

Finally there will be savings because all drug prices will be set by arbitration and any Pharma who refuses to offer their product to Americans at the set price will lose their patent protections, and somebocy else will make and provide the drug in question at the set price. Best guess for the basis of the new pricing would be nobody gets to charge Americans more than they charge their lowest price customer in the rest of the "industrialized" world - e.g., Canada. the EU, Japan, Australia.

 

One of the biggest advantages will be you will never again lose everything because you or a family member gets sick. Almost as big will be the fact you never have to argue with the insurance company and the provider about a bill.

 

The GOPerLords have ordered their minions to try and trash this plan before it can "solidify" into an actual bill before Congress, which is why we're seeing all these absurd comments. Probably got the KGB involved as well - keeping America from solving its health care crisis would be another coup for Putin.

Honored Social Butterfly

Thank you Scout,  I just heard something very similar from that new lady that just entered the Democrats that are running for President.

I really like what she said and she put forth just what you have covered that to me makes a lot more sense than that Medicare for All. 

Thank you for your explanation. She mention that Obamacare could be improved and made it work just as you have stated. 

Obama couldn't put it  because of all the opposition that he encountered. 

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@Roxanna35 wrote:

Thank you Scout,  I just heard something very similar from that new lady that just entered the Democrats that are running for President.

I really like what she said and she put forth just what you have covered that to me makes a lot more sense than that Medicare for All. 

Thank you for your explanation. She mention that Obamacare could be improved and made it work just as you have stated. 

Obama couldn't put it  because of all the opposition that he encountered. 


Public Option on Steriods - if either of these are the road taken to the public option -

The Atlantic - 04/26/2018 - The Democratic Push for a 'Public Option on Steroids'

 

But I guess we will find out a couple of things -

  • How private providers who now accept Medicare feel about taking more people at Medicare rates
  • How the Medicare Negotiations for Drugs will affect formularies and prices

from the link ~

Notably, both plans link the public option much more firmly to Medicare than the Democrats did in 2009. The plan the House approved back then encouraged hospitals and doctors that accepted Medicare to participate in the public option. But it also allowed them to opt out, and permitted them to charge participants in the new plan more than the rates Medicare pays.

 

Both of the new proposals would push providers much further, requiring those who participate in Medicare to accept patients choosing the new public option. That’s a huge lever, because few physicians can afford to renounce participation in Medicare. Both proposals would also require participating providers to accept Medicare reimbursement rates for the new patients (though each allows the government some wiggle room to raise rates if required to maintain a viable network). And, for good measure, each plan embraces the longtime liberal aim of empowering Medicare to use its buying power to negotiate for lower prescription-drug costs. Murphy told me his own bill offers a “public option on steroids” compared with the 2009 model. To a lesser degree, so does the Bennet-Kaine proposal.

 

. . . . Compared with Sanders’s plan, the public-option proposals present only an incremental expansion of the government’s role within the health-care system. 

 

But is that what Progressive Democrats want?   ah . . . . . guess we will have to wait for the fight at the Convention - where ever that might be -

 
 

 

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@GailL1 wrote:

 

But is that what Progressive Democrats want?   ah . . . . . guess we will have to wait for the fight at the Convention - where ever that might be -

 
 

Gail   I do respect your intelligent a lot please do not start your post with the words progressives  that in itself puts me out of the whole thing. because I am not a progressive or Liberal. I am a  person that has endorsed a National Health care  system for years as you well know.
So, I like all Americans. want a solution to the Health care  issue that is plaguing this country for so many years. There will be a program  called whatever you wish that will insure all Americans. 

I truly believe that it needs to be really studied, and really make sure that will work for all. I do believe that perhaps we are not there yet. but this is the beginning to eventually see this country joining the world in a National Health Care system

 


 

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@Roxanna35 wrote:

Thank you Scout,  I just heard something very similar from that new lady that just entered the Democrats that are running for President.

I really like what she said and she put forth just what you have covered that to me makes a lot more sense than that Medicare for All. 

Thank you for your explanation. She mention that Obamacare could be improved and made it work just as you have stated. 

Obama couldn't put it  because of all the opposition that he encountered. 


The govt. option was part of the ACA until the last second. Then one Dem Senator from CT said he would not vote for it, and that meant the entire ACA would have gone down so that option was taken out. If it was in the bill it would have brought us closer to the final Medicare for all approach which will be the final ending of this. Politics is the reason it was not in the ACA so all better realize that. Nothing will happen until the Trump days are over,

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@ChasKy53 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@mandm84 wrote:

easy asks "Who will be paying the 20% that medicare doesn`t cover now???"

-----------------

How about Properly Tax the Insanely Wealthy , who have paid NO TAX on their TRILLIONS hidden in Tax Free Overseas Accounts or is that too painful for them ?


Do you have some inside knowledge the the "insanely wealthy" have paid no tax on the money that (you claim) are in overseas tax free accounts? Does the left get updates on where tax are and who they are? How about taxing those that require the "medicare for all"?


You don't know about the multiple $trillions$ that the wealthy have sheltered in tax free off shore accounts?  Sorry you are so uninformed about this. Try the Cayman Islands, for one.


There are lots of places to store untaxed money. Sorry you can't/won't supply the needed proof that all the wealthy are doing this (illegally) but of course, the left knows everything (nothing)!

 

Further, the left are always talking about raising other people's taxes (to supply handouts for them) and not realizing that they are providing an incentive for hiding money (untaxed) in other places!

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@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@mandm84 wrote:

easy asks "Who will be paying the 20% that medicare doesn`t cover now???"

-----------------

How about Properly Tax the Insanely Wealthy , who have paid NO TAX on their TRILLIONS hidden in Tax Free Overseas Accounts or is that too painful for them ?


Do you have some inside knowledge the the "insanely wealthy" have paid no tax on the money that (you claim) are in overseas tax free accounts? Does the left get updates on where tax are and who they are? How about taxing those that require the "medicare for all"?


You don't know about the multiple $trillions$ that the wealthy have sheltered in tax free off shore accounts?  Sorry you are so uninformed about this. Try the Cayman Islands, for one.


There are lots of places to store untaxed money. Sorry you can't/won't supply the needed proof that all the wealthy are doing this (illegally) but of course, the left knows everything (nothing)!


Over the course of time the proof has been provided in all the news media. Go look it up and you will find it, and neither you nor I or anyone else can change that. What we see here is the typical right wing dodge on a subject. It is and has been done fact which neither you nor I can change.

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@john258 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@mandm84 wrote:

easy asks "Who will be paying the 20% that medicare doesn`t cover now???"

-----------------

How about Properly Tax the Insanely Wealthy , who have paid NO TAX on their TRILLIONS hidden in Tax Free Overseas Accounts or is that too painful for them ?


Do you have some inside knowledge the the "insanely wealthy" have paid no tax on the money that (you claim) are in overseas tax free accounts? Does the left get updates on where tax are and who they are? How about taxing those that require the "medicare for all"?


You don't know about the multiple $trillions$ that the wealthy have sheltered in tax free off shore accounts?  Sorry you are so uninformed about this. Try the Cayman Islands, for one.


There are lots of places to store untaxed money. Sorry you can't/won't supply the needed proof that all the wealthy are doing this (illegally) but of course, the left knows everything (nothing)!


Over the course of time the proof has been provided in all the news media. Go look it up and you will find it, and neither you nor I or anyone else can change that. What we see here is the typical right wing dodge on a subject. It is and has been done fact which neither you nor I can change.


Please look up the definition for "all" and "some" because it appears you think they are the same!

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@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@mandm84 wrote:

easy asks "Who will be paying the 20% that medicare doesn`t cover now???"

-----------------

How about Properly Tax the Insanely Wealthy , who have paid NO TAX on their TRILLIONS hidden in Tax Free Overseas Accounts or is that too painful for them ?


Do you have some inside knowledge the the "insanely wealthy" have paid no tax on the money that (you claim) are in overseas tax free accounts? Does the left get updates on where tax are and who they are? How about taxing those that require the "medicare for all"?


You don't know about the multiple $trillions$ that the wealthy have sheltered in tax free off shore accounts?  Sorry you are so uninformed about this. Try the Cayman Islands, for one.


There are lots of places to store untaxed money. Sorry you can't/won't supply the needed proof that all the wealthy are doing this (illegally) but of course, the left knows everything (nothing)!


Over the course of time the proof has been provided in all the news media. Go look it up and you will find it, and neither you nor I or anyone else can change that. What we see here is the typical right wing dodge on a subject. It is and has been done fact which neither you nor I can change.


Please look up the definition for "all" and "some" because it appears you think they are the same!


Facts are facts that neither you nor I can change so try and dodge all you want but it changes nothing. They did it.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@john258 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@mandm84 wrote:

easy asks "Who will be paying the 20% that medicare doesn`t cover now???"

-----------------

How about Properly Tax the Insanely Wealthy , who have paid NO TAX on their TRILLIONS hidden in Tax Free Overseas Accounts or is that too painful for them ?


Do you have some inside knowledge the the "insanely wealthy" have paid no tax on the money that (you claim) are in overseas tax free accounts? Does the left get updates on where tax are and who they are? How about taxing those that require the "medicare for all"?


You don't know about the multiple $trillions$ that the wealthy have sheltered in tax free off shore accounts?  Sorry you are so uninformed about this. Try the Cayman Islands, for one.


There are lots of places to store untaxed money. Sorry you can't/won't supply the needed proof that all the wealthy are doing this (illegally) but of course, the left knows everything (nothing)!


Over the course of time the proof has been provided in all the news media. Go look it up and you will find it, and neither you nor I or anyone else can change that. What we see here is the typical right wing dodge on a subject. It is and has been done fact which neither you nor I can change.


Please look up the definition for "all" and "some" because it appears you think they are the same!


Facts are facts that neither you nor I can change so try and dodge all you want but it changes nothing. They did it.


Facts are facts and "some" did it and NOT "all" did it like the left assumes! The ones that did it are crooks and crooks come in all flavors.

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@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@mandm84 wrote:

easy asks "Who will be paying the 20% that medicare doesn`t cover now???"

-----------------

How about Properly Tax the Insanely Wealthy , who have paid NO TAX on their TRILLIONS hidden in Tax Free Overseas Accounts or is that too painful for them ?


Do you have some inside knowledge the the "insanely wealthy" have paid no tax on the money that (you claim) are in overseas tax free accounts? Does the left get updates on where tax are and who they are? How about taxing those that require the "medicare for all"?


You don't know about the multiple $trillions$ that the wealthy have sheltered in tax free off shore accounts?  Sorry you are so uninformed about this. Try the Cayman Islands, for one.


There are lots of places to store untaxed money. Sorry you can't/won't supply the needed proof that all the wealthy are doing this (illegally) but of course, the left knows everything (nothing)!


Over the course of time the proof has been provided in all the news media. Go look it up and you will find it, and neither you nor I or anyone else can change that. What we see here is the typical right wing dodge on a subject. It is and has been done fact which neither you nor I can change.


Please look up the definition for "all" and "some" because it appears you think they are the same!


Facts are facts that neither you nor I can change so try and dodge all you want but it changes nothing. They did it.


Facts are facts and "some" did it and NOT "all" did it like the left assumes! The ones that did it are crooks and crooks come in all flavors.


You are correct facts are facts and I gave you the facts with neither of us can change them. The rich have done this for years, and that includes ones supporting Trump. Could be we will see that Trump did it now that they are following the money.

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