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Re: HOW ABOUT 4% FOR NATO

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Message 61 of 76

It is really sad to see the far right enablers now join  Dictator Trump in attacking NATO. NATO was formed after WW2 by the US to keep us from having WW3. We were the leading founder, and leader of NATO. We put bases in other countries because it helped us in defending this country as well as the other countries. What our forefathers created has worked for over 70 years as we have not had WW3. It brought stability to Europe, and lead to the EU. Keep in mind the members of NATO, and the EU had many wars between each other over time. All of that stopped. Our forefathers are turning over in their graves when they see what their ancestors are doing to destroy the world peace they left us. The fathers of NATO were Our President Harry T. (Dem), and Gen Dwight E. (Reb.) who was the first Commander of NATO, and followed Harry T. as our President  Everyone but the far right has supported NATO. Just yesterday the Senate voted 97-2 to support NATO. Now we see Dictator Trump trying to tearing it down using lies as he always does to do it. Look at the face of his Chief of Staff as he made his  remarks, and listen to the military men who have worked at NATO. WW3 would cost more in lives and money than NATO ever has.

Now we see the enablers posting in here to support Dictator Trump in trying to destroy NATO, and sadly some say they served in our military. Well the ones that served never went into WW3 due to NATO and should be ashamed to want their grand children to have to fight another war. The far right have always loved killing and hurting people. They have done it for years all over the world. Now is the time for all decent people to stand up to this small group who have taken control and let them know NATO will stand and they will fall.

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Re: HOW ABOUT 4% FOR NATO

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Message 62 of 76
Mick posted..

The Pentagon spends an estimated $10 billion a year on overseas bases. More than 70% of the total is spent in Japan, Germany and South Korea, where most U.S. troops abroad are permanently stationed.



In return, the Pentagon receives various forms of compensation from the host countries, from rent-free real estate where the bases are located to actual cash payments meant to offset U.S. costs.

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In return, the Pentagon receives various forms of compensation from the host countries, from rent-free real estate where the bases are located to actual cash payments meant to offset U.S. costs.
============================

"meant to offset U.S. costs"

Go any reliable numbers?

When I was stationed in Germany in the 1950's my pay was from my country..the USA.
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Re: HOW ABOUT 4% FOR NATO

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Message 63 of 76

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Being a gutless draft-dodging preppytwit, Lemontop has no clue about anything military, and has no interest in learning vs using whatever the last FOX broadcast said.

 

Yes, the US spends nearly 4% of GDP on our Military. No, nothing close to that is devoted to NATO.

 

For starters, about 1/3d of our total Defense spending goes for operations in the PACIFIC, so the amount available to support Europe is not 4% but 2.68%. Then we consider that a lot of our "support" for NATO is living right here in the USA, helping our economy at home. And then there's our whole Nuclear Triad, which should only be counted as a support for NATO if we had a rock-solid committment to use those forces to defend NATO, which Der Trumper has not made. Bottom line, the US is only providing less than 2% to do the things Eurpoean Nations need to do to provide for the security of NATO. Why does anyone think our allies should do more than we do?

 

Second, Der Trumper's too dumb to realize all those wonderful highways in Germany and the rest of what was "Western Europe"  support our military operations, as does the rest of their excellent infrastructure. Not counted in his understanding of the situation or what he thinks is their support to NATO.

 

Third, a trade DEFICIT is a good thing for Americans. It means we have more things from the other country than they got from us, and all they have to show is a bunch of pictures of our dead Presidents, which they generally send back to us to buy the Government bonds that finance our deficit spending.

 

Forth, in the last few years, NATO forces have taken about 1/3d of the casualties in jrbush's worthless War in Iraq, but with Lemontop's ranting against all things NATO, that is going to change, and it seems unlikely our "allies" will support any of our overseas military misadventures in the future, which would be a good thing if it kept Republicans from starting more needless wars, but it won't.

 

But don't bother Republicans with facts - it makes their heads hurt and they can't understand them anyway.


Draft-dodging, preppy twit, Fox, the usual trash talk. However, the issue is defense spending not specifically on NATO.

 

It's kinda like the percentage of the cost of college and university costs paid by the federal government - facts don't matter, just make anything up.

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Re: HOW ABOUT 4% FOR NATO

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Message 64 of 76

@mickstuder wrote:

@jimc91 wrote:

What would be wrong with all NATO members contributing 4% of their GDP so NATO will have all the funds they need to do the work for the world?

 

Its time to separate shakers and movers from the free loaders...

 

 

 

 


Golleee I wish Trump and his Cult Members would do some research - this is embarrassing........................

 

How much is the NATO Budget? - well the entire NATO budget amounts to less than 1% of all the money that all the NATO Countries spend on their own Defense including the money the USA Spends on its on Defense

 

Is there a Payment each NATO Country makes to NATO? Well not really - like I said above - there is a cost to run NATO and the members do share that cost but thats not the number people keep throwing around as th amount no one but Trump pay what they should

 

The 2% or 3% or now this guy above wants 4% is the amount of money - EACH COUNTRY IS SUPPOSED TO SPEND ON THEIR OWN DEFENSE

 

If the USA was Billed Market Rates for Rent for all the Bases they have in NATO Countries it would amount to tens of Billions

 

Is there a NATO Army? - well not really - all member states contribute their own Military forces to trouble spots - however NATO does Independently operate a Fleet of AWACS

 

Source - https://www.nato.int/cps/su/natohq/126169.htm

 

 

I guess the nations involved and their budgetary people didn't do your research - they agreed to 2% by 2024. 

 

 

 


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Re: HOW ABOUT 4% FOR NATO

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Message 65 of 76

When Trump was running for president, he kept talking about how the other NATO counties owed the United States so much money because they did not keep up their defense commitments.  Somebody finally educated him on the fact that it does not work that way. 

 

Now, I wonder if the Trump Republicans have figured this out.   Are they suggesting that America reduce its military spending if NATO increases theirs to 4%?  I think they have some theory that this will save America money somehow.  Can they be that ignorant? 

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Re: HOW ABOUT 4% FOR NATO

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Message 66 of 76

Pompeo on NATO.png

 

 

Stop Lying Trump & Trump Cult Members

 

 

( " If I do not believe as you believe, it proves that you do not believe as I believe, and this is all that it proves. Sam Adams )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: HOW ABOUT 4% FOR NATO

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Message 67 of 76

@KidBoy2 wrote:
Mick posted..

If the USA was Billed Market Rates for Rent for all the Bases they have in NATO Countries it would amount to tens of Billions

------------------------------------

That does not make even a little bit of sense.


Sure it does...................the US operates 36 Military Bases in Germany Alone.....................are we going to pick up and move them.................where - how much would that cost both Strategically and in Dollars and Cents?

 

A few years ago Hillary Clinton - you know that worthless bum - she negotiated a deal obligating Japan to continue paying nearly $2 billion a year to help defray the cost of U.S. troops stationed on its territory.......................

 

How about if Trump wants fairness and cost sharing we either get out of Japan or pay up

 

The Pentagon spends an estimated $10 billion a year on overseas bases. More than 70% of the total is spent in Japan, Germany and South Korea, where most U.S. troops abroad are permanently stationed.

 

In return, the Pentagon receives various forms of compensation from the host countries, from rent-free real estate where the bases are located to actual cash payments meant to offset U.S. costs.

 

Trump's attacks on allies as freeloaders is core to his political message that the U.S. is being outmaneuvered by both friends and adversaries overseas.

 

In Germany, where the United States maintains 38,000 troops and dozens of bases, compensation from Berlin is largely indirect. It includes tax waivers and rent-free use of facilities as well as construction of roads and other infrastructure in communities where installations are located.

 

Germany should tell Trump to pay up and then see how the US Tax Payers like his Style

 

Source - http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-allies-20160930-snap-story.html

 

 BTW Trumps 4% Ridiculousness - the USA doesn;t spend 4%

 

 

 

 

( " If I do not believe as you believe, it proves that you do not believe as I believe, and this is all that it proves. Sam Adams )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: HOW ABOUT 4% FOR NATO

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Message 68 of 76

@KidBoy2 wrote:
Mick posted..

If the USA was Billed Market Rates for Rent for all the Bases they have in NATO Countries it would amount to tens of Billions

------------------------------------

That does not make even a little bit of sense.



@KidBoy2 wrote:
Mick posted..

If the USA was Billed Market Rates for Rent for all the Bases they have in NATO Countries it would amount to tens of Billions

------------------------------------

That does not make even a little bit of sense.


It makes perfect sense. The places our Troops occupy are not available for economic development by Germans, hence Germany bears a rather high opportunity cost for having us in their country. On top of that, since the mid 1970's, Germany has reimbursed the US for the "cost differential" of having our Troops in Germany instead of say Kansas - all part of the SOFA.

 

Once again, only listening to FOX and Trump (same thing actually) makes one ignorant of the truth and prone to supporting nonsense.

 

As for Germany having a strong trade relation with Russia, it keeps countries from going to war, and that's what NATO is all about, not having bigger parades for a gutless draftdodger.

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Re: HOW ABOUT 4% FOR NATO

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Message 69 of 76

while the Trump-Republicans downplay it, the Nato allies are well aware that the United States is the only country to have ever called on the Nato alliance to help defend it.  Putin seems to understand the value of separating America from its Nato allies even if Trump can't figure out why he has been told to do that. 

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Re: HOW ABOUT 4% FOR NATO

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Message 70 of 76

Here are the Facts

 

1. The only time NATO has ever invoked Article 5 was in support of the USA after 911 - Trump and his Cult have No Clue nor do they care about History or about the Reason NATO exists - it's not a Venue for Trade Negotiations and it's certainly not a Venue for Trump to try and interfere in the Energy Policy of a Soveriegn Country......................

 

2. The US Senate Voted 97 - 2 to overide Trumps bloviating over NATO

 

3. This is the Most Important Fact - After grabbing some loud-mouthed bullying time to show-off for his meeting with his Handler Putin - Trump along with the 28 other NATO Members signed the 23 page NATO Declaration as written - No Changes

 

 

( " If I do not believe as you believe, it proves that you do not believe as I believe, and this is all that it proves. Sam Adams )

" )
" - Anonymous

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