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Re: Grinding Thomas Jefferson’s Birthday Into The Dust

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@jimc91 wrote:

 

We have the opportunity to learn from history and the figures that created it.  By erasing the figures we lose the opportunity to learn from the mistakes of our past.  I will call this "Progressive Privilege". 

 


My opinion is that Jefferson and others was a product of their time, as others throughout history, but we have evolved to a higher level in dealings with others.  Even at that they left us the basis of freedom and equality that has been built upon that all are indeed equal.  All of us owe much to them.  But if we cover up the past, then we would be prone to repeat it.

 

 

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Re: Grinding Thomas Jefferson’s Birthday Into The Dust

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“We don’t have to figure out what to do with millions of neighbors who have been physically, spiritually, and mentally abused by our society in a way that righteously fills them with rage and endangers their ability to govern and provide for themselves. No. All we have to do is repeat the correct words that everybody has told us from our infancy about how bad is this thing that not one single person born in America today has ever experienced. Simple.”

 

 

Actually, we do. That’s what structural racism is and what so many white people ignore or deny.

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Re: Grinding Thomas Jefferson’s Birthday Into The Dust

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When one stops and examines reality - there's a very great probability that nearly half of those that voted for trump - and quite likely trump himself - would own non-white slaves today - if it weren't unlawful...

 

Is it possible that small-souled and mean spirited anger and intent to attack Jefferson's character might be a primary motivation as a result of Jefferson's having coined the expression "separation of church and state"?

 

Religious nutters regularly break a commandment and lie - claiming that the nation was founded as a christian nation...

 

44>dolt45
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Re: Grinding Thomas Jefferson’s Birthday Into The Dust

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@MaVolta wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

I agree in principle only. George Washington was also a slave owner. I wonder if the mayor would suggest that his birthday be ignored, or that we no longer celebrate him as father of our country

 

 

I would suggest that this is a false equivalency. We do not honor George Washington for his connection to slavery but his historical contributions to our nation. 

 

Thomas Jefferson's historical contribution was completely related to slavery.  I would also point out that, had he been successful, 18.7% of the citizens of Charlottesville would be enslaved.  It makes it a tough sell to continue to honor someone like that.

 


 


Respectfully, I have to disagree: Jefferson had several contributions to American democracy for which he is / was honored.

 

In early colonial America, he was outspoken against The Crown to the extent of being known as having "radical" views. He promoted the idea of the colonial right to self-governance, and human rights. For that reason, he became the primary author of the Declaration of Independence, for which he is best known, and elevated him to FF status with Washington and the rest.

 

But Jefferson had other contributions as well. It was Jefferson who insisted upon separation of church and state. It was Jefferson who promoted the idea to amend the Constitution with a bill of civil rights, to guarantee freedom of religion, a free press, etc. It was also Jefferson who advocated for a free education system, both lower and higher learning.

 

So it is for those reasons that Jefferson is / was honored. Interestingly, Jefferson was initially an abolishionist. His first draft of DoI so stated. In later years, it was his writings on views of white supremacy that made him so controversial, especially in today's world view. I get that. 

 

To his credit, Washington did free his slaves upon his death and provided for them in his will.  By his own admission, he had more than he could successfully employ. On the other hand, Jefferson only freed those slaves related to him. 

 


My apologies.  I saw the refernce to slavery (George Washingon) and immediately jumped to JEFFERSON Davis. My mistake. 

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Re: Grinding Thomas Jefferson’s Birthday Into The Dust

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@Richva wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

I agree in principle only. George Washington was also a slave owner. I wonder if the mayor would suggest that his birthday be ignored, or that we no longer celebrate him as father of our country

 

 

I would suggest that this is a false equivalency. We do not honor George Washington for his connection to slavery but his historical contributions to our nation. 

 

Thomas Jefferson's historical contribution was completely related to slavery.  I would also point out that, had he been successful, 18.7% of the citizens of Charlottesville would be enslaved.  It makes it a tough sell to continue to honor someone like that.

 


 


Respectfully, I have to disagree: Jefferson had several contributions to American democracy for which he is / was honored.

 

In early colonial America, he was outspoken against The Crown to the extent of being known as having "radical" views. He promoted the idea of the colonial right to self-governance, and human rights. For that reason, he became the primary author of the Declaration of Independence, for which he is best known, and elevated him to FF status with Washington and the rest.

 

But Jefferson had other contributions as well. It was Jefferson who insisted upon separation of church and state. It was Jefferson who promoted the idea to amend the Constitution with a bill of civil rights, to guarantee freedom of religion, a free press, etc. It was also Jefferson who advocated for a free education system, both lower and higher learning.

 

So it is for those reasons that Jefferson is / was honored. Interestingly, Jefferson was initially an abolishionist. His first draft of DoI so stated. In later years, it was his writings on views of white supremacy that made him so controversial, especially in today's world view. I get that. 

 

To his credit, Washington did free his slaves upon his death and provided for them in his will.  By his own admission, he had more than he could successfully employ. On the other hand, Jefferson only freed those slaves related to him. 

 

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Perhaps there is a compromise area to do both? On different days?

 

I really do admire (not idol worship) our Founding Fathers for what they did for our Country. And wisdoms that they seem to possess. They lived in a different era, but as history has come to show, they were hardly angels. Being a slave owner was hardly a badge of courage or honor..and does not set well with many. 

Maybe we need to temper our view of history, but also consider, if not for the wisdom of the Constitution, and if our Country grew under different circumstances, might slavery still exist today? Which is a hypothetical just like what if we had lost WWll, or the Civil War...what would kind of world would we be living in?

I can still celebrate Jefferson’s birthday, not as a promotion of slavery, but can also appreciate and celebrate the Emancipation and Liberation of slaves, as we all should. 

This still raises a lot of consideration of. 

And perhaps a little soul searching is good!

 

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Re: Grinding Thomas Jefferson’s Birthday Into The Dust

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@MaVolta wrote:

I agree in principle only. George Washington was also a slave owner. I wonder if the mayor would suggest that his birthday be ignored, or that we no longer celebrate him as father of our country

 

 

I would suggest that this is a false equivalency. We do not honor George Washington for his connection to slavery but his historical contributions to our nation. 

 

Thomas Jefferson's historical contribution was completely related to slavery.  I would also point out that, had he been successful, 18.7% of the citizens of Charlottesville would be enslaved.  It makes it a tough sell to continue to honor someone like that.

 


 

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Re: Grinding Thomas Jefferson’s Birthday Into The Dust

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@jimc91 wrote:

Last week, Charlottesville, Virginia Mayor Nikuyah Walker proposed ending recognition of Thomas Jefferson’s birthday as an official city holiday. Instead, she wants the city to celebrate the emancipation of local slaves a month earlier, as “Liberation and Freedom Day.” The proposal will be brought before the city council at either its June 17 or July 1 meeting, reports The Daily Progress, a local newspaper.

 

Charlottesville is the home to the University of Virginia, one of the United States’s premiere research and educational institutions, which Jefferson personally designed, founded, and led after serving as the U.S. president. It is Jefferson who wrote the words that became a promissory note of freedom for all people and that this nation cashed in its own blood. It is he who helped design a nation that has secured the most freedom for the most people in all of human history. All this means nothing, say today’s rageaholic iconoclasts, because he held slaves.

 

Walker, an independent who campaigned against the previous Democrat incumbent from the leftappears not to have publicly stated her reasons for her proposal, but we all can guess. The heavily Democratic Charlottesville City Council “voted in 2017 to commemorate the second of October as Indigenous Peoples Day rather than Columbus Day,” notes The Daily Progress. We all know why on that one, too.

 

This is resentment, envy, and ignorance, plain and simple. It assumes that someone who has done something terrible can never be recognized for what he has done that is great. It assumes that we should socially elevate those who have accomplished nothing over those who have built a great nation, simply because the former can land a valid criticism against the latter.

 

Followed to its logical conclusions, this line of thinking bans the idea of greatness itself. It subsumes all good actions to any possibly connected evil actions. It insists that the most defining feature of any person is his sins. And it pretends that simply by virtue of understanding that slavery is wrong, we who live today in the West are perfectly holy, and may freely and smugly condemn every single person who has ever gone before us, and brush away every insight and achievement of human history.

 

We, the great people of today, are the greatest ever, not because we’ve achieved anything significant, but because we think the correct thoughts about chattel slavery. That alone is enough to prove we are better than our ancestors, and may thus burn them on the ash heap of history.

 

This is not only ignorance, but hubris. It is a great steaming pile of unstudied, arrogant hypocrisy.

It costs nobody a single red cent to oppose slavery today. We don’t have to take up arms against our American brothers to end it. We don’t have to reorganize our entire economy and infrastructure. To stop it, not one of us has to die and have our bullet-riddled limbs sawed off without anesthetic (one in 13 of those who survived fighting the Civil War had amputated limbs). Not one of us has to be the family members, the wives and sisters and cousins, of people who must experience this to secure other people’s freedom, either.

 

We don’t have to figure out what to do with millions of neighbors who have been physically, spiritually, and mentally abused by our society in a way that righteously fills them with rage and endangers their ability to govern and provide for themselves. No. All we have to do is repeat the correct words that everybody has told us from our infancy about how bad is this thing that not one single person born in America today has ever experienced. Simple.

 

Not one of these overindoctrinated underachievers who want to rid our society of all heroes is fit to shine Thomas Jefferson’s boots. They couldn’t create a nation out of scratch if they tried. They couldn’t in a million years dedicate their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor to establishing a country that would be among the first in world history end slavery through a near-suicidal deluge of its own blood, in a dedication to the words and the institutions Jefferson helped create: dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal, and seeing that their government treats them so, at the cost of a higher percentage of deaths than it cost this nation to liberate the entire globe from Adolf Hitler.

 

So, while Jefferson is too dead to defend himself and the benefactors of his great ingenuities too maleducated by the government of his co-creation to give him the respect he deserves, these envious, cowardly, accomplish-nothings spit on his legacy. The very freedom these people use to dig up and roast his dead corpse they would not have without him. They use the priceless treasure he bought with his life for them like a piece of toilet paper on which to wipe their fetid excrescence.

Serfdom has been the general, persistent condition of mankind since the dawn of creation. We can always return to that condition. All it takes is one generation of impiety towards our precious heritage, and the eternal truths our fathers, even in their broken human condition, managed to point out to a posterity that now pours acid on them and laughs.

 

It’s certainly not perfect, and never has been, but the United States is the last refuge and the highest hope for human freedom on God’s green earth. We burn the nation that cherishes these self-evident truths at our peril.

 

BY:  Joy Pullmann

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

We have the opportunity to learn from history and the figures that created it.  By erasing the figures we lose the opportunity to learn from the mistakes of our past.  I will call this "Progressive Privilege". 

 

 

 

 


Here we go again a support article from a far right writer and Trump supporting publication. First lets see what else the author wrote: 1.   5 Times the AG letter about the Mueller Report Clears President Trump,   2.  Wrong, GOP: Making Babies should be between  a Husband and Wife, Not Single Women and the Taxpayers. Just 2 examples go read the list and you will see the writer is just like the leader she supports. Truth is missing in both of them.  Charlottesville Va is where the far right KKK, and other parts of Trump base gathered in a planned riot with people protesting their far right views. They held a torch lite parade just like the Nazi did in Germany, and Hitler loved it just as Trump did when he said there were good people in the group. They killed one women. Yes we can learn from history. Get rid of the far right as we became the USA by throwing out a far right government. Dictator (King).

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Re: Grinding Thomas Jefferson’s Birthday Into The Dust

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I agree in principle only. George Washington was also a slave owner. I wonder if the mayor would suggest that his birthday be ignored, or that we no longer celebrate him as father of our country

 

What I object to is the author's language. Rather than being critically constructive and diplomatic, her tone is extremely bitter and scathing. She makes a fair point, but IMO, should have used tact and consideration with her choice of words. 

 

The lesson should be that we learn from mistakes of the past. We do a poor job of it, btw. 

 

 

 

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Re: Grinding Thomas Jefferson’s Birthday Into The Dust

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No worries. We can replace it with  a celebration of Barack  Obama's birthday. In a year or so we can celebrate the day Trump starts his prison sentence for treason with the Russians. 

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