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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Free Speech

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Message 51 of 101

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

I believe in free speech rights for all, that includes the "mob".  On private property (i.e. a university), they do not have a right to stay there and can be removed.  Universities have power over their students up to and including expulsion if they start something. 

So, while they can be removed for trying to shout down a speaker during their speech in an auditorium, they also have the right NOT to attend or use their free speech rights to demonstrate outside the venue.  They also have the right to peacefully protest inside.  A majority of the lecture hall simply standing up and walking out on a speaker says volumes.

I do have an issue with universities rescinding speaking invitations because a few students protest.  As I said, they have a right to protest outside.  I believe they even have a right to go into the hall and hold up signs, walk out, etc.

Conversely, there is no speaker who has a right to speak on a campus.  That privilege is bestowed by the administration.  If the administration deems a person or group to be too hateful, or too minimal, they have the right to keep them away.

 

Agreed. I just get concerned when the "not invite" or the "disinvite" comes as a result of caving into violence threats.


Taking into account the feelings of the students is not "caving in". The University just isn't required  to run their university in accordance to the whims of rk9152.


The threat of violence, not "taking into account the feelings".

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Free Speech

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Message 52 of 101

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 

 did schumer approve wall in the past

A university can invite anyone they want. I am objecting to the mobs shouting a speaker down or causing a disinvite (sic) with threats of violence.


I can't see your lips, a good thing.

 

Universities make their own decisions based on whatever they want. Are you against people shouting down white supremacist hate speech?

 

Is the TOS "speech suppression"?

 

Once again - A university can invite anyone they want. I am objecting to the mobs shouting a speaker down or causing a disinvite (sic) with threats of violence.


 


The University had the right to base their decision on whatever they chose to, even taking into account the students desires made known by protesting. 

 

Is the TOS "speech suppression"? 


Do you approve of the threat of violence in order to have a speaker not invited, disinvited, or shut down? Not "desires made known" - violence.

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Re: Free Speech

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Message 53 of 101

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:


 


The KKK is the "mob" that ran a vehicle into a crowd killing a woman and injuring dozens.

 

Those you refer to have the right to speak on public property, like the KKK did resulting in one of their members or supporters killing a woman and injuring dozens.  A university has the right to refuse to let them speak on their property.

 

Thank goodness that right has not been taken away, or we could end up with the KKK causing the death and injury of college students.

 

Focus - speaking, not running down in a car.


 


Focus ............ Universities have the right to choose who speaks on their property and who doesn't.


Correct - now, do opponents have the right to have a speaker disinvited via the threat of violence? And do opponents have the right to shout down an invited guest in the approved environment for his speech?

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Re: Free Speech

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Message 54 of 101

@cn5621 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

The University of Michigan encourages all students to participate in free speech events, and exercise their rights.

 

the way you describe that it seems like a case of the university encouraging students to suppress free speech. it seems a university might be encouraging a diversity of thought so that the young minds can think and expand.


 


At a " free speech"  event, the university encourages free speech. Is there a problem with that? Maybe the event shouldnt be called a "free speech" event. Calling it such, just announces the speakers intent to be an ass.


In that case, Trump should never be invited to speak at a University. His track record indicates what he would do.


Any thoughts on Conservative speakers who have been invited and then disinvited over the threat of violence or have been shouted down or whose speaking engagements have resulted in the destruction of property.

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Re: Free Speech

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Message 55 of 101

@williamb39198 wrote:

@Olderscout66

For sure. Things have changed and not for the good. And it’s not about hate, it’s about seeking the truth. 

 

@rk9152

So much for a wish of courtesy. But, I do agree with you. With trump, his base, trump supporters, trump repubs, freedom caucus, racists, supremists, and ultra right conservatives...things have sunk to an all time new low! Terrible behavior!

 

Never Forget


I'm not sure of your point. Can you point to left wing speakers disinvited over the threat of violence, shouted down, or stopped by mob violence?

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Re: Free Speech

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Message 56 of 101

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

I believe in free speech rights for all, that includes the "mob".  On private property (i.e. a university), they do not have a right to stay there and can be removed.  Universities have power over their students up to and including expulsion if they start something. 

So, while they can be removed for trying to shout down a speaker during their speech in an auditorium, they also have the right NOT to attend or use their free speech rights to demonstrate outside the venue.  They also have the right to peacefully protest inside.  A majority of the lecture hall simply standing up and walking out on a speaker says volumes.

I do have an issue with universities rescinding speaking invitations because a few students protest.  As I said, they have a right to protest outside.  I believe they even have a right to go into the hall and hold up signs, walk out, etc.

Conversely, there is no speaker who has a right to speak on a campus.  That privilege is bestowed by the administration.  If the administration deems a person or group to be too hateful, or too minimal, they have the right to keep them away.

 

Agreed. I just get concerned when the "not invite" or the "disinvite" comes as a result of caving into violence threats.


Taking into account the feelings of the students is not "caving in". The University just isn't required  to run their university in accordance to the whims of rk9152.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Free Speech

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Message 57 of 101

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 

 did schumer approve wall in the past

A university can invite anyone they want. I am objecting to the mobs shouting a speaker down or causing a disinvite (sic) with threats of violence.


I can't see your lips, a good thing.

 

Universities make their own decisions based on whatever they want. Are you against people shouting down white supremacist hate speech?

 

Is the TOS "speech suppression"?

 

Once again - A university can invite anyone they want. I am objecting to the mobs shouting a speaker down or causing a disinvite (sic) with threats of violence.


 


The University had the right to base their decision on whatever they chose to, even taking into account the students desires made known by protesting. 

 

Is the TOS "speech suppression"? 


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Free Speech

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Message 58 of 101

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:


 


The KKK is the "mob" that ran a vehicle into a crowd killing a woman and injuring dozens.

 

Those you refer to have the right to speak on public property, like the KKK did resulting in one of their members or supporters killing a woman and injuring dozens.  A university has the right to refuse to let them speak on their property.

 

Thank goodness that right has not been taken away, or we could end up with the KKK causing the death and injury of college students.

 

Focus - speaking, not running down in a car.


 


Focus ............ Universities have the right to choose who speaks on their property and who doesn't.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Free Speech

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Message 59 of 101

@MIseker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

The University of Michigan encourages all students to participate in free speech events, and exercise their rights.

 

the way you describe that it seems like a case of the university encouraging students to suppress free speech. it seems a university might be encouraging a diversity of thought so that the young minds can think and expand.


 


At a " free speech"  event, the university encourages free speech. Is there a problem with that? Maybe the event shouldnt be called a "free speech" event. Calling it such, just announces the speakers intent to be an ass.


In that case, Trump should never be invited to speak at a University. His track record indicates what he would do.

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Re: Free Speech

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Message 60 of 101

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

I believe in free speech rights for all, that includes the "mob".  On private property (i.e. a university), they do not have a right to stay there and can be removed.  Universities have power over their students up to and including expulsion if they start something. 

So, while they can be removed for trying to shout down a speaker during their speech in an auditorium, they also have the right NOT to attend or use their free speech rights to demonstrate outside the venue.  They also have the right to peacefully protest inside.  A majority of the lecture hall simply standing up and walking out on a speaker says volumes.

I do have an issue with universities rescinding speaking invitations because a few students protest.  As I said, they have a right to protest outside.  I believe they even have a right to go into the hall and hold up signs, walk out, etc.

Conversely, there is no speaker who has a right to speak on a campus.  That privilege is bestowed by the administration.  If the administration deems a person or group to be too hateful, or too minimal, they have the right to keep them away.

 

Agreed. I just get concerned when the "not invite" or the "disinvite" comes as a result of caving into violence threats.


 



@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

I believe in free speech rights for all, that includes the "mob".  On private property (i.e. a university), they do not have a right to stay there and can be removed.  Universities have power over their students up to and including expulsion if they start something. 

So, while they can be removed for trying to shout down a speaker during their speech in an auditorium, they also have the right NOT to attend or use their free speech rights to demonstrate outside the venue.  They also have the right to peacefully protest inside.  A majority of the lecture hall simply standing up and walking out on a speaker says volumes.

I do have an issue with universities rescinding speaking invitations because a few students protest.  As I said, they have a right to protest outside.  I believe they even have a right to go into the hall and hold up signs, walk out, etc.

Conversely, there is no speaker who has a right to speak on a campus.  That privilege is bestowed by the administration.  If the administration deems a person or group to be too hateful, or too minimal, they have the right to keep them away.

 

Agreed. I just get concerned when the "not invite" or the "disinvite" comes as a result of caving into violence threats.


 


This, in my opinion, is a post and comment both, with merit and deserves consideration. I found it refreshing. A meaningful debate beats personal sniping that evolves into a hate-filled fight every time. I try to be this noble but often fail. I admit at times I mean to be snide in my remarks when I have strong feelings about a subject, which doesn't make me a better person, just human. 

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