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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Free Speech

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Message 61 of 101

@Olderscout66

For sure. Things have changed and not for the good. And it’s not about hate, it’s about seeking the truth. 

 

@rk9152

So much for a wish of courtesy. But, I do agree with you. With trump, his base, trump supporters, trump repubs, freedom caucus, racists, supremists, and ultra right conservatives...things have sunk to an all time new low! Terrible behavior!

 

Never Forget

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Re: Free Speech

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Message 62 of 101

@Olderscout66 wrote:

When Ayn Rand was speaking  without disruption, America had not been transformed into a hotbed of Nazi, KKK and White Supremacist supporters by the Republican Party and their Propaganda Ministry, Fox, breightbart, infowars, and the countless RW conspiracy theorists infesting the Internet.

 

Back in the 1950's and 60's, University students in particular had no real beef with Ms Rand as she was a harmless nutjob pumping her literary fiction, not a major political party seeking to turn America into a Corporate Oligarchy.

 

Today those the GOP wants speaking without interruption are the useful fools they employ to enrage their base while the GOPerLords can pretend to NOT hold the blatant racist, sexist, xenophobic views of the speaker they so carefully nurtured over the years to spew the hate and lies Republicans need to win elections.

 

The college educated see through the GOPer ruse and want no part of the destruction of Democracy and rightfully object to their University/College participation in dismantling Liberty in the name of "free speech".


Besides listing all your wild claims about those you hate - do you think  that an invited speaker should be able to speak to those who want to listen?

 

Additionally, should college students not be exposed to a variety of thinking so as to expand their minds?

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Free Speech

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Message 63 of 101

When Ayn Rand was speaking  without disruption, America had not been transformed into a hotbed of Nazi, KKK and White Supremacist supporters by the Republican Party and their Propaganda Ministry, Fox, breightbart, infowars, and the countless RW conspiracy theorists infesting the Internet.

 

Back in the 1950's and 60's, University students in particular had no real beef with Ms Rand as she was a harmless nutjob pumping her literary fiction, not a major political party seeking to turn America into a Corporate Oligarchy.

 

Today those the GOP wants speaking without interruption are the useful fools they employ to enrage their base while the GOPerLords can pretend to NOT hold the blatant racist, sexist, xenophobic views of the speaker they so carefully nurtured over the years to spew the hate and lies Republicans need to win elections.

 

The college educated see through the GOPer ruse and want no part of the destruction of Democracy and rightfully object to their University/College participation in dismantling Liberty in the name of "free speech".

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Free Speech

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Message 64 of 101

@williamb39198 wrote:

@rk9152

You seem to have overlap of free speech and private speech. And crowds, gatherings, assemblies, protest groups and mobs. 

But underneath your views, it seems that what you really want or expect is courtesy? I am making an assumption. And I’m not sure that courtesy is a guarantee provided by free speech, objection of, or protesting...but within certain legal boundaries of conduct. 

Just a thought. 

 

Never Forget


To clarify any "overlapping" go back to the first post. It referred to Ms. Rand (a controversial figure) invited to the universities mentioned and actually being permitted to speak - no mass disruption, no disinvite based on threats of violence.

 

Then compare that to today and see if you don't think we have sunken quite low.

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Free Speech

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Message 65 of 101

@rk9152

You seem to have overlap of free speech and private speech. And crowds, gatherings, assemblies, protest groups and mobs. 

But underneath your views, it seems that what you really want or expect is courtesy? I am making an assumption. And I’m not sure that courtesy is a guarantee provided by free speech, objection of, or protesting...but within certain legal boundaries of conduct. 

Just a thought. 

 

Never Forget

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Re: Free Speech

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Message 66 of 101

@MIseker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

The University of Michigan encourages all students to participate in free speech events, and exercise their rights.

 

the way you describe that it seems like a case of the university encouraging students to suppress free speech. it seems a university might be encouraging a diversity of thought so that the young minds can think and expand.


 


At a " free speech"  event, the university encourages free speech. Is there a problem with that? Maybe the event shouldnt be called a "free speech" event. Calling it such, just announces the speakers intent to be an ass.


sounds like "I disagree" could be called "he's an ass"

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Re: Free Speech

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Message 67 of 101

Remember - that's a maladministration that is dancing to the tune that Putin - and his moronic and feloniously dishonest criminal puppet is playing.

It's not what the majority of WE THE PEOPLE direct...

44>dolt45
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Re: Free Speech

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Message 68 of 101

@sp362 wrote:

I believe in free speech rights for all, that includes the "mob".  On private property (i.e. a university), they do not have a right to stay there and can be removed.  Universities have power over their students up to and including expulsion if they start something. 

So, while they can be removed for trying to shout down a speaker during their speech in an auditorium, they also have the right NOT to attend or use their free speech rights to demonstrate outside the venue.  They also have the right to peacefully protest inside.  A majority of the lecture hall simply standing up and walking out on a speaker says volumes.

I do have an issue with universities rescinding speaking invitations because a few students protest.  As I said, they have a right to protest outside.  I believe they even have a right to go into the hall and hold up signs, walk out, etc.

Conversely, there is no speaker who has a right to speak on a campus.  That privilege is bestowed by the administration.  If the administration deems a person or group to be too hateful, or too minimal, they have the right to keep them away.

 

Agreed. I just get concerned when the "not invite" or the "disinvite" comes as a result of caving into violence threats.


 

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Re: Free Speech

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Message 69 of 101

@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:
If the content of the speech isnt incendiary, there wont be a problem. You are saying, in effect, you dont want
YOUR speech to contain one bone of political correctness. Politically correct speech is used when one chooses not to inflame the emotions of a listener. If a speaker decides to promote inflamatory speech or incendiary ideas, they are shirking THEIR responsiblity to calmly bring people to their point of view,, or at least convey the message in an inoffensive manner. But then, I am talking about a real speech whose intent is to win people over. You are talking about allowing a loud mouth to make inflammatory comment, goad the crowd, or outright lie without consequence.

incendiary is in the eyes of the beholder


Incendiary is in the eye of the listener. 

 

So it begins.
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Re: Free Speech

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Message 70 of 101

@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

The University of Michigan encourages all students to participate in free speech events, and exercise their rights.

 

the way you describe that it seems like a case of the university encouraging students to suppress free speech. it seems a university might be encouraging a diversity of thought so that the young minds can think and expand.


 


At a " free speech"  event, the university encourages free speech. Is there a problem with that? Maybe the event shouldnt be called a "free speech" event. Calling it such, just announces the speakers intent to be an ass.

So it begins.
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