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Re: Four Pinocchio's For trump Admin. on New Policy

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Message 11 of 20

Supporting Trump and facts is an Oxymoron. 3,000 lies and counting. Remember it's all fake news unless President Trump says it's not !!!

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Re: Four Pinocchio's For trump Admin. on New Policy

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Message 12 of 20

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@CS402050 wrote:


BTW.....if you wish to argue with the athour of the article, feel free to contact them at:

 

Letters to the Editor

The Washington Post

1301 K Street NW

Washington DC 20071.


So, in summary, you don't understand the FACTS and don't want to. 

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Re: Four Pinocchio's For trump Admin. on New Policy

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Message 13 of 20

@CS402050 wrote:


BTW.....if you wish to argue with the athour of the article, feel free to contact them at:

 

Letters to the Editor

The Washington Post

1301 K Street NW

Washington DC 20071.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Four Pinocchio's For trump Admin. on New Policy

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Message 14 of 20

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

Immigrant families are being separated primarily because the Trump administration in April began to prosecute as many border-crossing offenses as possible. This “zero-tolerance policy” applies to all adults, regardless of whether they cross alone or with their children.

 

The Justice Department can’t prosecute children along with their parents, so the natural result of the zero-tolerance policy has been a sharp rise in family separations.

 

 

 


Try to understand the facts:

 

The Zero-Tolerance policy issued by Attorney General Jeff Sessions simply states that U.S. Code 8 U.S.C. § 1325(a) will be enforced. That's it. That's the policy. If you want to verify that, it's easy enough to google. U.S. Code 8 U.S.C. § 1325(a) simply states that both attempted illegal entry and illegal entry into the United States by an alien is prohibited and defines the penalty, which includes both fines and imprisonment. That's it. That's the law. If you want to verify that, it's easy enough to google. The Constitution requires the President to "take care that the Laws be faithfully executed." I would hope most citizens of this country are familiar with the Constitution, but for anyone who is ignorant of what it says, that too can be googled. So, in truth, the REAL Trump policy is to enforce the law as required by the Constitution.

 

AND THERE IS NOTHING IN ANY TRUMP POLICY THAT SAYS EVEN ONE LITTLE THING ABOUT SEPARATING CHILDREN FROM THEIR PARENTS. NOT ONE. It is actually a side effect because when parents are referred for prosecution, the children are placed in the custody of a sponsor, such as a relative or foster home, or held in a shelter just like when any parent in this country is sent to prison for violating the law.

 

Wanna change that? Change the law. Instead liberals want to ignore any law they don't agree with. Want me to support that? Tell me you'll support ignoring laws I don't like 'cause I certainly have a couple in mind. But liberals don't want to do either because they don't understand right and wrong so they choose spin, innuendo, half-truths and lies to divide the electorate.

 

Btw, about 85% of the children being held (and taken care of) were not accompanied by a parent when they illegally crossed the border.

 

Btw, in this country. children are separated from parents all the time when the parents jeopardize the safety of those children.

 

Btw, a case could be made that ALL the children being held fall into that category since the parent forced them to break the law, but YOU don't know how many cases that is not true of.

 

Btw, NOBODY likes children being separated from their parents, but using children as a partisan issue is a new low for liberals.

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Re: Four Pinocchio's For trump Admin. on New Policy

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Message 15 of 20

@fangoh45 wrote:


The actual word used by the individual-who lost the last presidential election, was "Deploables", either quite condesending. Count me in that category. 

 

OK, if we must....  But as you know many embraced the term, here on this forum and with their clothing:

 

 

 


 


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Four Pinocchio's For trump Admin. on New Policy

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Message 16 of 20

@umbarch64 wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

The facts about Trump’s policy of separating families at the border

 

 

See link for several ommitted paragraphs removed for system limitations

 

The facts about Trump’s policy of separating families at the border

 

 

The Trump administration owns this family-separation policy and its spin deserves Four Pinocchios.

Four Pinocchios

 

“We’re increasing the rate of what we were already doing,” Waldman said. “Instead of letting some slip through, we’re saying we’re doing it for all.”

 

Image result for four pinocchios

 

Anyone believe trump threatened Sessions and Nielsen with their jobs if they didn't implement this extreme policy?  You BETCHA!


Thank you, sir.  This absurd nonsense about who previously did what or didn't prevents any realistic and postive resolution to an identified problem.  Such a tactic takes the dialogue away from the problem itself and fixes it on issues which may, in fact be true, but  are, in fact irrelevant to the issue itself.  Works too.

 

Such would be the case for citing what Harry did, or Clinton did or Bush did or Obama did... or didn't do ...ad nauseum.  So what?  The problem is now and it is ours, no one elses's.  What anyone else did or didn't do before may be useful to those with pointed fingers on arms crossed over their chests proclaiming, "See...see...they do it too", to no worthwhile purpose. 

 

IT doesn't matter...it is up to US to fix it.  Surely we are grown-ups enough to do that.  'Hope springs eternal' obviously doesn't apply in regard to some pretty specific folks out there.  Somebody once called them despicable.  Could be they were fully and completely 'right'.  You think?


Doesn't matter?? So, the outrage now manifesting itself against the present admin for a policy in place for years and years is justified...even though the abuse (total children involved was twice the amount  during past admins). To say, then it "Didn't matter" is quite telling.

You sure the word you're looking for is "Despicable"? The actual word used by the individual-who lost the last presidential election, was "Deploables", either quite condesending. Count me in that category. Better than being called a lib.-

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Re: Four Pinocchio's For trump Admin. on New Policy

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Message 17 of 20

   Wingers have sent out emails today - saying that they should support an RW ideologues idea of justice - hire more judges, because that willl solve the problem.

   Ah - nope, that will not solve the problem, because the children and adults who are being ajudicated separately do not know of their legal rights and so it is more bs.     Most justices do not know or care to interact with the children as it will leave a huge stain on their career.     So the judges there at the moment are at the end of their career.   One even held court to an entire room of teens  - listened to no one...and oh yeah, left the room before pronouncing their ruling.    Dregs of the court and GOP say "more please".      Disgusting.

    

PRO-LIFE is Affordable Healthcare for ALL .
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Re: Four Pinocchio's For trump Admin. on New Policy

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Message 18 of 20
I think everyone is threatened with their job if they don';t agree, or lie, or spin the truth. If you know from day 1 that is how your job is going to go, with any character at all , you would quit.
I hope each and every one who has lied and stood by The Donald and his out and out lies has embarrassed not only themselves, but their families, wives, children, grand-children. It will now be their shame to deal with as well.
Live For Today, No One is Guaranteed a TOMORROW !
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Re: Four Pinocchio's For trump Admin. on New Policy

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Message 19 of 20

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

The facts about Trump’s policy of separating families at the border

 

 

See link for several ommitted paragraphs removed for system limitations

 

The facts about Trump’s policy of separating families at the border

 

 

The Trump administration owns this family-separation policy and its spin deserves Four Pinocchios.

Four Pinocchios

 

“We’re increasing the rate of what we were already doing,” Waldman said. “Instead of letting some slip through, we’re saying we’re doing it for all.”

 

Image result for four pinocchios

 

Anyone believe trump threatened Sessions and Nielsen with their jobs if they didn't implement this extreme policy?  You BETCHA!


Thank you, sir.  This absurd nonsense about who previously did what or didn't prevents any realistic and postive resolution to an identified problem.  Such a tactic takes the dialogue away from the problem itself and fixes it on issues which may, in fact be true, but  are, in fact irrelevant to the issue itself.  Works too.

 

Such would be the case for citing what Harry did, or Clinton did or Bush did or Obama did... or didn't do ...ad nauseum.  So what?  The problem is now and it is ours, no one elses's.  What anyone else did or didn't do before may be useful to those with pointed fingers on arms crossed over their chests proclaiming, "See...see...they do it too", to no worthwhile purpose. 

 

IT doesn't matter...it is up to US to fix it.  Surely we are grown-ups enough to do that.  'Hope springs eternal' obviously doesn't apply in regard to some pretty specific folks out there.  Somebody once called them despicable.  Could be they were fully and completely 'right'.  You think?

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Four Pinocchio's For trump Admin. on New Policy

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Message 20 of 20

The facts about Trump’s policy of separating families at the border

 

“I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change their law. That’s their law.”
— President Trump, in remarks to reporters at the White House, June 15

 

“We have the worst immigration laws in the entire world. Nobody has such sad, such bad and actually, in many cases, such horrible and tough — you see about child separation, you see what’s going on there.”
— Trump, in remarks at the White House, June 18

 

“Because of the Flores consent decree and a 9th Circuit Court decision, ICE can only keep families detained together for a very short period of time.”
— Attorney General Jeff Sessions, in a speech in Bozeman, Mont., June 7

 

“It’s the law, and that’s what the law states.”
— White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, at a news briefing, June 14

 

“We do not have a policy of separating families at the border. Period.”
— Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, on Twitter, June 17

 

The president and top administration officials say U.S. laws or court rulings are forcing them to separate families that are caught trying to cross the southern border.

 

These claims are false. Immigrant families are being separated primarily because the Trump administration in April began to prosecute as many border-crossing offenses as possible. This “zero-tolerance policy” applies to all adults, regardless of whether they cross alone or with their children.

 

The Justice Department can’t prosecute children along with their parents, so the natural result of the zero-tolerance policy has been a sharp rise in family separations. Nearly 2,000 immigrant children were separated from parents during six weeks in April and May, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

 

The Trump administration implemented this policy by choice and could end it by choice. No law or court ruling mandates family separations. In fact, during its first 15 months, the Trump administration released nearly 100,000 immigrants who were apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico border, a total that includes more than 37,500 unaccompanied minors and more than 61,000 family members.

 

Children continue to be released to their relatives or to shelters. But since the zero-tolerance policy took effect, parents as a rule are being prosecuted. Any conviction in those proceedings would be grounds for deportation.

 

We’ve published two fact-checks about family separations, but it turns out these Trumpian claims have a zombie quality and keep popping up in new ways.

 

In the latest iteration, Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen tweeted and then said at a White House briefing that the administration does not have “a policy of separating families at the border.” This is Orwellian stuff. Granted, the administration has not written regulations or policy documents that advertise, “Hey, we’re going to separate families.” But that’s the inevitable consequence, as Nielsen and other Trump administration officials acknowledge.

 

“Operationally what that means is we will have to separate your family,” Nielsen told NPR in May.

 

“That’s no different than what we do every day in every part of the United States when an adult of a family commits a crime. If you as a parent break into a house, you will be incarcerated by police and thereby separated from your family. We’re doing the same thing at the border.”

 

Although we’ve fact-checked these family-separation claims twice, we hadn’t had the opportunity to assign a Pinocchio rating yet. We’ll do so now.

  The Facts

 

Since 2014, hundreds of thousands of children and families have fled to the United States because of rampant violence and gang activity in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. U.S. laws provide asylum or refugee status to qualified applicants, but the Trump administration says smugglers and bad actors are exploiting these same laws to gain entry. Nielsen says the government has detected hundreds of cases of fraud among migrants traveling with children who are not their own. President Trump says he wants to close what he describes as “loopholes” in these humanitarian-relief laws.

 

The Central American refugee crisis developed during President Barack Obama’s administration and continues under Trump. The two administrations have taken different approaches. The Justice Department under Obama prioritized the deportation of dangerous people. Once he took office, Trump issued an executive order rolling back much of the Obama-era framework.

 

Obama’s guidelines prioritized the deportation of gang members, those who posed a national security risk and those who had committed felonies. Trump’s January 2017 executive order does not include a priority list for deportations and refers only to “criminal offenses,” which is broad enough to encompass serious felonies as well as misdemeanors.

 

Then, in April 2018, Attorney General Jeff Sessions rolled out the zero-tolerance policy.

 

When families or individuals are apprehended by the Border Patrol, they’re taken into DHS custody.

 

Under the zero-tolerance policy, DHS officials refer any adult “believed to have committed any crime, including illegal entry,” to the Justice Department for prosecution. If they’re convicted, that triggers deportation proceedings.

 

This is a question of Trump and his Cabinet choosing to enforce some laws over others. The legal landscape did not change between the time the Trump administration released nearly 100,000 immigrants during its first 15 months and the time the zero-tolerance policy took effect in April 2018.

 

What changed was the administration’s handling of these cases. Undocumented immigrant families seeking asylum previously were released and went into the civil court system, but now the parents are being detained and sent to criminal courts while their kids are resettled in the United States as though they were unaccompanied minors.

 

The government has limited resources and cannot prosecute every crime, so setting up a system that prioritizes the prosecution of some offenses over others is a policy choice. The Supreme Court has said, “In our criminal justice system, the government retains ‘broad discretion’ as to whom to prosecute.” To charge or not to charge someone “generally rests entirely” on the prosecutor, the court has said.

 

Katie Waldman, a spokeswoman for Nielsen, said the administration does not have a family-separation policy. But Waldman agreed that Trump officials are exercising their prosecutorial discretion to charge more illegal-entry offenses, which in turn causes more family separations. The Obama administration also separated immigrant families, she said.

 

Waldman sent figures from fiscal 2010 through 2016 showing that, out of 2,362,966 adults apprehended at the southern border, 492,970, or 21 percent, were referred for prosecution. These figures include all adults, not just those who crossed with minor children, so they’re not a measure of how many families were separated under Obama.

 

“During the Obama administration there was no policy in place that resulted in the systematic separation of families at the border, like we are now seeing under the Trump administration,” said Sarah Pierce, a policy analyst at the Migration Policy Institute. “Our understanding is that generally parents were not prosecuted for illegal entry under President Obama. There may have been some separation if there was suspicion that the children were being trafficked or a claimed parent-child relationship did not actually exist. But nothing like the levels we are seeing today.”

Trump administration officials say they’re trying to keep parents informed about their kids.

 

But some families instead have wound up in wrenching scenarios.

 

“Some of the most intense outrage at the measures has followed instances of parents deported to Central America without their children or spending weeks unable to locate their sons and daughters,” The Washington Post’s Nick Miroff reported. “In other instances, pediatricians and child advocates have reported seeing toddlers crying inconsolably for their mothers at shelters where staff are prohibited from physically comforting them.”

 

Administration officials have pointed to a set of laws and court rulings that they said forced their hand:

 

  • A 1997 federal consent decree that requires the government to release all children apprehended crossing the border. The “Flores” consent decree began as a class-action lawsuit. The Justice Department negotiated a settlement during President Bill Clinton’s administration. According to a 2016 decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, the Flores settlement requires the federal government to release rather than detain all undocumented immigrant children, whether they crossed with parents or alone. The agreement doesn’t cover any parents who might be accompanying those minors, but it doesn’t mandate that parents be prosecuted or that families be separated. Moreover, Congress could pass a law that overrides the terms of the Flores settlement. Waldman said the Flores settlement requires the government to keep immigrant families together for only 20 days, but no part of the consent decree requires that families be separated after 20 days. Courts have ruled that children must be released from detention facilities within 20 days under the Flores consent decree, but none of these legal developments prevents the government from releasing parents along with children.
  • A 2008 law meant to curb human trafficking called the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act (TVPRA). This law covers children of all nationalities except Canadians and Mexicans. Central American children who are apprehended trying to enter the United States must be released rather than detained under the terms of the TVPRA, and they’re exempt from prompt return to their home countries. The law passed with wide bipartisan support and was signed by a Republican president, George W. Bush. No part of the TVPRA requires family separations.
  • The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. This comprehensive law governs U.S. immigration and citizenship and makes a person’s first illegal entry into the United States a misdemeanor. Clinton, Bush and Obama — the presidents who were in office during the immigration boom of the past few decades — never enforced the INA’s illegal-entry provision with the Trump administration’s zeal. The INA says nothing about separating families. It was sponsored by Democrats and passed by a Democratic-held Congress. President Harry Truman, also a Democrat, tried to veto the bill, describing it as a reactionary and “un-American” measure meant to keep out immigrants from Eastern Europe. Congress overrode his veto.

 

“What has changed is that we no longer exempt entire classes of people who break the law,” Nielsen said at a White House briefing June 18. “Everyone is subject to prosecution.”

 

 

See link for several ommitted paragraphs removed for system limitations

 

The facts about Trump’s policy of separating families at the border

 

 

The Trump administration owns this family-separation policy and its spin deserves Four Pinocchios.

Four Pinocchios

 

“We’re increasing the rate of what we were already doing,” Waldman said. “Instead of letting some slip through, we’re saying we’re doing it for all.”

 

Image result for four pinocchios

 

Anyone believe trump threatened Sessions and Nielsen with their jobs if they didn't implement this extreme policy?  You BETCHA!


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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