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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 41 of 81

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

A wall or fence is one deterrent for illegal entry - no more no less. Of course radical liberals will tell you to prove that it will keep them out. It won't but it is one tool in the arsenal of tools along with electronic surveillance/cameras, patrols, monitoring by drones/satellite, etc.


My problem with a wall is that it is NOT a cost effective deterrent.  For the amount of money we will spend to build it and maintain it, we should be demanding some sort of "proof" that it will actually work.  I have no problem with more cost effective controls.

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 42 of 81

@aruzinsky wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@jfpinlvnwrote:

"ÁSOTTHALOM, Hungary — A far-right mayor is hailing the success of a new border fence, saying it has protected Hungary from mass immigration.

“It saved my town,” said László Toroczkai, whose community on the border with Serbia was at the center of a wave of migrants in 2015 seeking better lives in the West. “Calmness has returned.”

 
 He was one of the loudest voices in a campaign that convinced Hungary’s government to build two parallel 10-foot-high razor-wire electric fences at the border, which also doubles as a frontier for the European Union.
 

The result is a modern-day iron curtain that stretches for 100 miles and is monitored by soldiers, dogs, thermal cameras and 3,000 newly recruited border police officers.

 

Hungarian authorities say it has effectively shut off the main migrant route from the Middle East to Western Europe; police arrested only five undocumented immigrants last month, compared with 3,528 before the fence existed in March 2016.

 

Toroczkai believes President Donald Trump, who is choosing designs for a wall along the southern border aimed at sealing off Mexico, should be encouraged by the success. “I hope it inspires the Americans,” he said.

 

It certainly inspired Hungarians, who voted overwhelmingly for anti-migrant parties in elections earlier this month. Toroczkai is also in the running to take over as leader of the ultra-nationalist Jobbik movement, which won 20 percent of the vote."

 

More at: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/far-right-mayor-hails-success-hungary-serbia-border-fence-n868676

 

 


How is this "proof" that a fence will work at our Southern Border?  Is it the physical fence or the fact that they can have a border officer every 175 feet along the fence?  Also what is the cost to "protect" this village of 4,000 people?  We have prisons with a far bigger population and prisoners are held in place by a combination of fences and guards (mainly guards, fences only would not work).


You are the only one saying "proof."  Putting words into someone else's mouth is a trite, immoral, liberal tactic. 

 

We don't need proof to properly decide to build a wall along the US Mexican border.  Optimum decisions, based on incomplete knowledge, can be made by using statistical decision theory. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSc31v67590

 

Here is a dumbed down version:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afnJbdT4t5g

 


Trying to play an intellectual does not work for you.  Don't worry, I won't report you for trying to say I am "dumb".

 

Back to the topic, do you think a physical wall is a cost effective deterrent?

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 43 of 81

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@Olderscout66wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@rker321wrote:

How  about a good follow up on student visas,  regular tourist visas. H1B  visas. and simply clean up the court system that is so polluted that it has ceased to function as a viable immigration court system,.


Makes sense. A rational package is - 1) have policies that reflect the needs of America; 2) enforce the laws that support those policies.

 

3) don't squander our National Treasure on things that haven't worked since the 2d Century before Christ, like WALLS.



Since we obviously cannot post big strong guys every 10 feet on the border, some sort of physical barrier is needed - any ideas? Or are you going for the "one world" approach?


That fallaciously presupposes that there is valid empirical proof that a proposed physical barrier will work to solve the alleged - but unproved - "problems" that adversely affect the less than rational "minds" of republicans/conservatives/trump supporters - who are world renowned for persisting in foolishly attempting to put Descartes before the horse...

 

 


Wrong, as usual.

Old Witch
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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 44 of 81

A wall or fence is one deterrent for illegal entry - no more no less. Of course radical liberals will tell you to prove that it will keep them out. It won't but it is one tool in the arsenal of tools along with electronic surveillance/cameras, patrols, monitoring by drones/satellite, etc.

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 45 of 81

@sp362 wrote:

@jfpinlvnwrote:

"ÁSOTTHALOM, Hungary — A far-right mayor is hailing the success of a new border fence, saying it has protected Hungary from mass immigration.

“It saved my town,” said László Toroczkai, whose community on the border with Serbia was at the center of a wave of migrants in 2015 seeking better lives in the West. “Calmness has returned.”

 
 He was one of the loudest voices in a campaign that convinced Hungary’s government to build two parallel 10-foot-high razor-wire electric fences at the border, which also doubles as a frontier for the European Union.
 

The result is a modern-day iron curtain that stretches for 100 miles and is monitored by soldiers, dogs, thermal cameras and 3,000 newly recruited border police officers.

 

Hungarian authorities say it has effectively shut off the main migrant route from the Middle East to Western Europe; police arrested only five undocumented immigrants last month, compared with 3,528 before the fence existed in March 2016.

 

Toroczkai believes President Donald Trump, who is choosing designs for a wall along the southern border aimed at sealing off Mexico, should be encouraged by the success. “I hope it inspires the Americans,” he said.

 

It certainly inspired Hungarians, who voted overwhelmingly for anti-migrant parties in elections earlier this month. Toroczkai is also in the running to take over as leader of the ultra-nationalist Jobbik movement, which won 20 percent of the vote."

 

More at: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/far-right-mayor-hails-success-hungary-serbia-border-fence-n868676

 

 


How is this "proof" that a fence will work at our Southern Border?  Is it the physical fence or the fact that they can have a border officer every 175 feet along the fence?  Also what is the cost to "protect" this village of 4,000 people?  We have prisons with a far bigger population and prisoners are held in place by a combination of fences and guards (mainly guards, fences only would not work).


You are the only one saying "proof."  Putting words into someone else's mouth is a trite, immoral, liberal tactic. 

 

We don't need proof to properly decide to build a wall along the US Mexican border.  Optimum decisions, based on incomplete knowledge, can be made by using statistical decision theory. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSc31v67590

 

Here is a dumbed down version:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afnJbdT4t5g

 

Old Witch
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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 46 of 81

Estrogen as a way to protect our borders - an interesting approach, I'd like to hear more.

 

But, back to the topic - fences won't work. True, they will not work all by them selves. On the other hand, machine runs (or the fear of them) might work better.

 

So, what shall we do - go the machine gun route or try to find other disincentivizers?

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Estrogen can be metabolized within your body in various w...

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Message 47 of 81

Estrogen can be metabolized within your body in various ways. It can also help with ovarian cysts. It also helps regulate the menstrual cycle, controlling the growth of the uterine lining during the first part of the cycle.

 

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 48 of 81

@Olderscout66wrote:

 

Border security becomes racist just like "vote security" - when it ONLY serves to punish a particuliar group, specifically non-white people. In the case of the wall, it also discriminates against a particuliar religion, Islam.

 


You have something against national borders?  Perhaps they should be done away with completely for every country? 

 

If the Native Americans would have had borders they could have kept out those White Europeans who took their country from them.   They brought in all sorts of diseases that decimated their population, advanced weapons that defeated them and pushed them into reservations.


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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 49 of 81

@Olderscout66wrote:

Border security becomes racist just like "vote security" - when it ONLY serves to punish a particuliar group, specifically non-white people. In the case of the wall, it also discriminates against a particuliar religion, Islam.

Border security is designed for just that - control over who enters our nation. No punishment, no racism, no discrimination against Muslims. 

 

That is what Republicans want to do with their multi-billion-dollar fiasco along our southern border - show their moronic bigoted base they will punish non-white people and Muslims. 

How can you consider something that only blocks illegal entry as punishment for non-whites and Muslims? Do you think they have some right to illegal entry that is being denies. I'd say that theory is "moronic".

It serves NO other purpose, except to funnel billions of tax dollars to Donny's buddies in no-bid contracts. It will not make us any safer, but it WILL show the World we hate people of color -you know, people living in those (deleted per TOS) countries- and that could make it easier for Der Trumper to start a war with Iran, but also make it highly unlikely any country will join our "cause".

Your needle is stuck on that meaningless "hate people of color" meme.


 

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 50 of 81

Border security becomes racist just like "vote security" - when it ONLY serves to punish a particuliar group, specifically non-white people. In the case of the wall, it also discriminates against a particuliar religion, Islam.

 

That is what Republicans want to do with their multi-billion-dollar fiasco along our southern border - show their moronic bigoted base they will punish non-white people and Muslims.  It serves NO other purpose, except to funnel billions of tax dollars to Donny's buddies in no-bid contracts. It will not make us any safer, but it WILL show the World we hate people of color -you know, people living in those (deleted per TOS) countries- and that could make it easier for Der Trumper to start a war with Iran, but also make it highly unlikely any country will join our "cause".

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