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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 21 of 81

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

Physical barriers are used at airports as part of the total security package. The same applies to our borders.

 

You mean the same chain link fence that some homeowner's use around their properties?  Without airport security, these would do nothing to keep people who really want to get in from getting in.  Just like at your home, the purpose of this fence is to keep something (like a dog) in, not keep a burglar out.


 Did I say a homeowner's chain link fence? As to the airport, as I said "as part of the total security package". 


 


A chain link fence is what is around the majority of airports,  My point has always been that building a wall along our Southern Border is simply a waste of money.  There are cheaper ways to secure the border than spending money on a wall.

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 22 of 81

@sp362 wrote:

Physical barriers are used at airports as part of the total security package. The same applies to our borders.

 

You mean the same chain link fence that some homeowner's use around their properties?  Without airport security, these would do nothing to keep people who really want to get in from getting in.  Just like at your home, the purpose of this fence is to keep something (like a dog) in, not keep a burglar out.


 Did I say a homeowner's chain link fence? As to the airport, as I said "as part of the total security package". 


 

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 23 of 81

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

 


Trying to play an intellectual does not work for you.  Don't worry, I won't report you for trying to say I am "dumb".

What a clever way to "draw attention to" while claiming "won't report".

 

He went on a rant on another thread about all of his posts that were being removed.

 

Back to the topic, do you think a physical wall is a cost effective deterrent?

Physical barriers are used at airports as part of the total security package. The same applies to our borders.

 

You mean the same chain link fence that some homeowner's use around their properties?  Without airport security, these would do nothing to keep people who really want to get in from getting in.  Just like at your home, the purpose of this fence is to keep something (like a dog) in, not keep a burglar out.


 


 

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 24 of 81

@Olderscout66 wrote:

For GOPers, a wall is just a physical manifestation of their desire to somehow separate themselves from non-whites who are not rich. They REALLY want to move into the lillywhite gated communities their GOPerLords rule from, but since that's not possible, they'll give themselves something THEY can pretend will separate them from the undesirables.

 

This is why the fact the walls Der Trumper is pushing do NOTHING to prevent dangerous people from entering America does not enter into their thought process. Just another keen-jerk reaction from the far right trying to somehow compensate for the fact they've lost the "culture war" they've been waging alongside their Nazi, KKK and White Supremacist friends whom their POTUS tells them are "good people".


There is nothing in border security related to non-white, non-rich, lillywhite gated communities, undesirables, Nazi, KKK, White Supremacists, or "good people". 

 

Do you or do you not believe in a nation having secure borders? Try focusing on that (the topic) without all that hate filled nonsense

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 25 of 81

@sp362 wrote:

 


Trying to play an intellectual does not work for you.  Don't worry, I won't report you for trying to say I am "dumb".

What a clever way to "draw attention to" while claiming "won't report".

 

Back to the topic, do you think a physical wall is a cost effective deterrent?

Physical barriers are used at airports as part of the total security package. The same applies to our borders.


 

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 26 of 81

@aruzinsky wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@aruzinsky wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

A PHYSICAL WALL IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY.

What is your evidence that Trump won't eventually make Mexico pay for it?   How is it that you haven't voluntarily addressed that Trump campaign promise?   

 


Because it is a ridiculous assertion.  What has Mexico said about?  Let's assume for a second that Mexico actually pays for it.  What would that do to the price of goods sold in the US and made in Mexico?  Do you think they will go up?  So the real people paying for the wall will be the US consumers, or US taxpayers, take your pick.


The price of Mexican goods in the US will go down because the previously temporarily, now, permanently deported illegal Mexicans will simultaneously decrease the demand for those goods in the US while increasing the labor supply in Mexico.


I suggest you study economics.

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 27 of 81

@jfpinlvn wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

A wall or fence is one deterrent for illegal entry - no more no less. Of course radical liberals will tell you to prove that it will keep them out. It won't but it is one tool in the arsenal of tools along with electronic surveillance/cameras, patrols, monitoring by drones/satellite, etc.


My problem with a wall is that it is NOT a cost effective deterrent.  For the amount of money we will spend to build it and maintain it, we should be demanding some sort of "proof" that it will actually work.  I have no problem with more cost effective controls.


It would not take much of a dent in the cost of supporting illegals in the US to make the wall effective:

 

"The Cost of Illegal Immigration to the United States

 

At the federal, state, and local levels, taxpayers shell out approximately $134.9 billion to cover the costs incurred by the presence of more than 12.5 million illegal aliens, and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens. That amounts to a tax burden of approximately $8,075 per illegal alien family member and a total of $115,894,597,664. The total cost of illegal immigration to U.S. taxpayers is both staggering and crippling. In 2013, FAIR estimated the total cost to be approximately $113 billion. So, in under four years, the cost has risen nearly $3 billion. This is a disturbing and unsustainable trend. The sections below will break down and further explain these numbers at the federal, state, and local levels."

 

https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxp...


Again, FAIRUS is not a credible source to use.  A little about them "FAIR has ties to white supremacist groups. Has made false claims according to fact checkers here and here."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-federation-for-american-immigration-reform-fair/

 

Let's look at their cost of 134.9 billion.  They freely admit immigrants pay 18.9 billion in taxes.  That leaves 116 billion.  They are claiming that schooling costs 1.7 billion, since we have already deducted the cost of taxes paid, that is a fair expense.  They are claiming 9 billion in medicaid expenses.  Since illegals don't qualify for medicaid, that brings the total down to 107 billion.  They are claiming 8.2 billion in uncompensated hospital expense, where did they pull that number out of?  They are claiming 10.6 billion as the cost of ICE, that brings the cost down to 96.4 billion.  They are showing another 2 billion for SNAP (illegals don't qualify), 94.4 billion.  Again, they are showing medicaid expenses at the state level of 12.2 billion, but illegals don't qualify.  We are now down to 82.2 billion. They are showing 11 billion for state law enforcement expenses with NO backup of how they came up with that number.  71.2 billion.  State welfare expenses of 3 billion (illegals don't qualify).  68.2 billion.  Education costs are 44.4 billion of this 68.2 billion.  They give them credit for 1 billion in property tax payments, but who are they giving the payment credit to when they are renting?  Also, are these children that have been born here?  If they are, we call them citizens.  Since they are not showing the sources for their numbers, this organization, just like CIS is not credible.

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 28 of 81

@sp362 wrote:

@aruzinsky wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

A PHYSICAL WALL IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY.

What is your evidence that Trump won't eventually make Mexico pay for it?   How is it that you haven't voluntarily addressed that Trump campaign promise?   

 


Because it is a ridiculous assertion.  What has Mexico said about?  Let's assume for a second that Mexico actually pays for it.  What would that do to the price of goods sold in the US and made in Mexico?  Do you think they will go up?  So the real people paying for the wall will be the US consumers, or US taxpayers, take your pick.


The price of Mexican goods in the US will go down because the previously temporarily, now, permanently deported illegal Mexicans will simultaneously decrease the demand for those goods in the US while increasing the labor supply in Mexico.

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 29 of 81

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

A wall or fence is one deterrent for illegal entry - no more no less. Of course radical liberals will tell you to prove that it will keep them out. It won't but it is one tool in the arsenal of tools along with electronic surveillance/cameras, patrols, monitoring by drones/satellite, etc.


My problem with a wall is that it is NOT a cost effective deterrent.  For the amount of money we will spend to build it and maintain it, we should be demanding some sort of "proof" that it will actually work.  I have no problem with more cost effective controls.


It would not take much of a dent in the cost of supporting illegals in the US to make the wall effective:

 

"The Cost of Illegal Immigration to the United States

 

At the federal, state, and local levels, taxpayers shell out approximately $134.9 billion to cover the costs incurred by the presence of more than 12.5 million illegal aliens, and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens. That amounts to a tax burden of approximately $8,075 per illegal alien family member and a total of $115,894,597,664. The total cost of illegal immigration to U.S. taxpayers is both staggering and crippling. In 2013, FAIR estimated the total cost to be approximately $113 billion. So, in under four years, the cost has risen nearly $3 billion. This is a disturbing and unsustainable trend. The sections below will break down and further explain these numbers at the federal, state, and local levels."

 

https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxp...

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 30 of 81

@aruzinsky wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

A PHYSICAL WALL IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY.

What is your evidence that Trump won't eventually make Mexico pay for it?   How is it that you haven't voluntarily addressed that Trump campaign promise?   

 


Because it is a ridiculous assertion.  What has Mexico said about?  Let's assume for a second that Mexico actually pays for it.  What would that do to the price of goods sold in the US and made in Mexico?  Do you think they will go up?  So the real people paying for the wall will be the US consumers, or US taxpayers, take your pick.

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