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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 11 of 81

@aruzinsky wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

A wall or fence is one deterrent for illegal entry - no more no less. Of course radical liberals will tell you to prove that it will keep them out. It won't but it is one tool in the arsenal of tools along with electronic surveillance/cameras, patrols, monitoring by drones/satellite, etc.


My problem with a wall is that it is NOT a cost effective deterrent.  For the amount of money we will spend to build it and maintain it, we should be demanding some sort of "proof" that it will actually work.  I have no problem with more cost effective controls.


You have an error of logic because there likely would be no cost for maintenance without first proving that the wall works.  Building the wall, without maintaining it, would empirically prove that the wall does or doesn't work.  If it doesn't work, we probably won't maintain it therefore the amount of money to maintain it will probably never be spent.  If it does work, you would have your proof before spending  money for maintenance.  The cost of building the wall is the cost of proof.


That is a ridiculous and costly way to provide any type of justification to build it in the first place.  Also, I thought you were a Libertarian?  Last time I checked true Libertarians were against a wall (in fact, they are for open borders.)

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 12 of 81

Solyndra failed because Republicans blocked the start-up money they needed to compete with ChiCommie firms using slave labor. Had we supported soluyndra, we wouldn't need to worry about Der Trumper putting a 25% tarriff on solar panals in his moronic quest to bring back coal because we'd be making the panals right here in the USA.

 

The fence is nothing more than a visual aid for Der Trumpers followers to let them understand he hates foreigners as much as they do. Perhaps he could make a 1/10,000 scale model to haul it around the country while telling his lemings "We'd build this, but those nasty Dems won't let me." The model would be nearly 86 feet long and definatily impress Donny's followers while only costing a couple thousand bucks instead of the tens of billions wasted on an actual barrier.

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 13 of 81

@CriticalThinking wrote:

One has to look at issues such as energy with a long term perspective. Mistakes were made, but President Obama helped changed the culture as he got America looking to the future.

 

While coal still produces much more energy in the US than solar, solar jobs now outnumber those in coal by more than 2-to-1, according to the Department of Energy.

 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-06-07/solar-jobs-now-outnumber-coal-jobs-us


Good idea.  Electrify the wall with solar panels.

 

Old Witch
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Fences Don't Work?

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Message 14 of 81

One has to look at issues such as energy with a long term perspective. Mistakes were made, but President Obama helped changed the culture as he got America looking to the future.

 

While coal still produces much more energy in the US than solar, solar jobs now outnumber those in coal by more than 2-to-1, according to the Department of Energy.

 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-06-07/solar-jobs-now-outnumber-coal-jobs-us

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 15 of 81

@aruzinsky wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

A wall or fence is one deterrent for illegal entry - no more no less. Of course radical liberals will tell you to prove that it will keep them out. It won't but it is one tool in the arsenal of tools along with electronic surveillance/cameras, patrols, monitoring by drones/satellite, etc.


My problem with a wall is that it is NOT a cost effective deterrent.  For the amount of money we will spend to build it and maintain it, we should be demanding some sort of "proof" that it will actually work.  I have no problem with more cost effective controls.


Since you are always asking for "proof" of everything, why not show "proof" why a wall is NOT cost effective and the fact that the left says it, is NOT proof!


Show me one example where we have physical walls without guards and I will agree with you.  In the meantime, the virtual wall that you described will be just as effective and much cheaper.


So you make a statement that the wall is not cost effective (of course without proof - just your opinion), I ask you for proof (since you are always asking everyone else to prove their opinion), and then you tell me to show an example where a wall works without guards?????

 

First of all, I mentioned that is is one tool to be used to keep people out and I also said it won't do the job itself and now you change the parameters. Typical liberal strategy.


You keep trying to twist my words around by changing what I said.  Where did I "change the parameters"?  You also try to dismiss responding by simply saying "liberal ideas".  My point is the same that always been, A PHYSICAL WALL IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY.


My OPINION is the wall is worth the cost. Your OPINION is that it isn't, so there we are again at a stalemate. I could use your approach and tell you to prove your opinion (a gambit used by the left all the time) but I won't since it is only your opinion. Opinions can't be proved.


Yes, it is your OPINION.  So, why should MY tax dollars be wasted on somebodies OPINION without some kind of study it will work?  Because of who suggested it?


To get even with a long history of liberals making conservative's tax dollars be wasted on failed solutions to bogus social problems.  It's like, "We want our money back from you because you owe us."  Reparations for conservatives.


Solyndra immediately comes to mind as a "solution" for the left that was a total failure and loss of money.

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/27/obama-backed-green-energy-failures-leave-taxpayers/

Obama-backed green energy failures leave taxpayers with $2.2 billion tab, audit finds - Washington Times

Obama clean energy loans leave taxpayers in $2.2 billion hole
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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 16 of 81

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

A wall or fence is one deterrent for illegal entry - no more no less. Of course radical liberals will tell you to prove that it will keep them out. It won't but it is one tool in the arsenal of tools along with electronic surveillance/cameras, patrols, monitoring by drones/satellite, etc.


My problem with a wall is that it is NOT a cost effective deterrent.  For the amount of money we will spend to build it and maintain it, we should be demanding some sort of "proof" that it will actually work.  I have no problem with more cost effective controls.


Since you are always asking for "proof" of everything, why not show "proof" why a wall is NOT cost effective and the fact that the left says it, is NOT proof!


Show me one example where we have physical walls without guards and I will agree with you.  In the meantime, the virtual wall that you described will be just as effective and much cheaper.


So you make a statement that the wall is not cost effective (of course without proof - just your opinion), I ask you for proof (since you are always asking everyone else to prove their opinion), and then you tell me to show an example where a wall works without guards?????

 

First of all, I mentioned that is is one tool to be used to keep people out and I also said it won't do the job itself and now you change the parameters. Typical liberal strategy.


You keep trying to twist my words around by changing what I said.  Where did I "change the parameters"?  You also try to dismiss responding by simply saying "liberal ideas".  My point is the same that always been, A PHYSICAL WALL IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY.


My OPINION is the wall is worth the cost. Your OPINION is that it isn't, so there we are again at a stalemate. I could use your approach and tell you to prove your opinion (a gambit used by the left all the time) but I won't since it is only your opinion. Opinions can't be proved.


Yes, it is your OPINION.  So, why should MY tax dollars be wasted on somebodies OPINION without some kind of study it will work?  Because of who suggested it?


To get even with a long history of liberals making conservative's tax dollars be wasted on failed solutions to bogus social problems.  It's like, "We want our money back from you because you owe us."  Reparations for conservatives.

Old Witch
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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 17 of 81

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

A wall or fence is one deterrent for illegal entry - no more no less. Of course radical liberals will tell you to prove that it will keep them out. It won't but it is one tool in the arsenal of tools along with electronic surveillance/cameras, patrols, monitoring by drones/satellite, etc.


My problem with a wall is that it is NOT a cost effective deterrent.  For the amount of money we will spend to build it and maintain it, we should be demanding some sort of "proof" that it will actually work.  I have no problem with more cost effective controls.


Since you are always asking for "proof" of everything, why not show "proof" why a wall is NOT cost effective and the fact that the left says it, is NOT proof!


Show me one example where we have physical walls without guards and I will agree with you.  In the meantime, the virtual wall that you described will be just as effective and much cheaper.


So you make a statement that the wall is not cost effective (of course without proof - just your opinion), I ask you for proof (since you are always asking everyone else to prove their opinion), and then you tell me to show an example where a wall works without guards?????

 

First of all, I mentioned that is is one tool to be used to keep people out and I also said it won't do the job itself and now you change the parameters. Typical liberal strategy.


You keep trying to twist my words around by changing what I said.  Where did I "change the parameters"?  You also try to dismiss responding by simply saying "liberal ideas".  My point is the same that always been, A PHYSICAL WALL IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY.


My OPINION is the wall is worth the cost. Your OPINION is that it isn't, so there we are again at a stalemate. I could use your approach and tell you to prove your opinion (a gambit used by the left all the time) but I won't since it is only your opinion. Opinions can't be proved.


Yes, it is your OPINION.  So, why should MY tax dollars be wasted on somebodies OPINION without some kind of study it will work?  Because of who suggested it?


"Work" has many different levels of success. Totally work means as a stand alone solution, no more work or money is needed. I always said it is a partial solution, so now you are saying if the partial solution is cost justified, you would accept it. This is a much better answer than prove your opinion!

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 18 of 81

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

A wall or fence is one deterrent for illegal entry - no more no less. Of course radical liberals will tell you to prove that it will keep them out. It won't but it is one tool in the arsenal of tools along with electronic surveillance/cameras, patrols, monitoring by drones/satellite, etc.


My problem with a wall is that it is NOT a cost effective deterrent.  For the amount of money we will spend to build it and maintain it, we should be demanding some sort of "proof" that it will actually work.  I have no problem with more cost effective controls.


You have an error of logic because there likely would be no cost for maintenance without first proving that the wall works.  Building the wall, without maintaining it, would empirically prove that the wall does or doesn't work.  If it doesn't work, we probably won't maintain it therefore the amount of money to maintain it will probably never be spent.  If it does work, you would have your proof before spending  money for maintenance.  The cost of building the wall is the cost of proof.

Old Witch
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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 19 of 81

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

A wall or fence is one deterrent for illegal entry - no more no less. Of course radical liberals will tell you to prove that it will keep them out. It won't but it is one tool in the arsenal of tools along with electronic surveillance/cameras, patrols, monitoring by drones/satellite, etc.


My problem with a wall is that it is NOT a cost effective deterrent.  For the amount of money we will spend to build it and maintain it, we should be demanding some sort of "proof" that it will actually work.  I have no problem with more cost effective controls.


Since you are always asking for "proof" of everything, why not show "proof" why a wall is NOT cost effective and the fact that the left says it, is NOT proof!


Show me one example where we have physical walls without guards and I will agree with you.  In the meantime, the virtual wall that you described will be just as effective and much cheaper.


So you make a statement that the wall is not cost effective (of course without proof - just your opinion), I ask you for proof (since you are always asking everyone else to prove their opinion), and then you tell me to show an example where a wall works without guards?????

 

First of all, I mentioned that is is one tool to be used to keep people out and I also said it won't do the job itself and now you change the parameters. Typical liberal strategy.


You keep trying to twist my words around by changing what I said.  Where did I "change the parameters"?  You also try to dismiss responding by simply saying "liberal ideas".  My point is the same that always been, A PHYSICAL WALL IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY.


My OPINION is the wall is worth the cost. Your OPINION is that it isn't, so there we are again at a stalemate. I could use your approach and tell you to prove your opinion (a gambit used by the left all the time) but I won't since it is only your opinion. Opinions can't be proved.


Yes, it is your OPINION.  So, why should MY tax dollars be wasted on somebodies OPINION without some kind of study it will work?  Because of who suggested it?

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Re: Fences Don't Work?

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Message 20 of 81

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

A wall or fence is one deterrent for illegal entry - no more no less. Of course radical liberals will tell you to prove that it will keep them out. It won't but it is one tool in the arsenal of tools along with electronic surveillance/cameras, patrols, monitoring by drones/satellite, etc.


My problem with a wall is that it is NOT a cost effective deterrent.  For the amount of money we will spend to build it and maintain it, we should be demanding some sort of "proof" that it will actually work.  I have no problem with more cost effective controls.


Since you are always asking for "proof" of everything, why not show "proof" why a wall is NOT cost effective and the fact that the left says it, is NOT proof!


Show me one example where we have physical walls without guards and I will agree with you.  In the meantime, the virtual wall that you described will be just as effective and much cheaper.


So you make a statement that the wall is not cost effective (of course without proof - just your opinion), I ask you for proof (since you are always asking everyone else to prove their opinion), and then you tell me to show an example where a wall works without guards?????

 

First of all, I mentioned that is is one tool to be used to keep people out and I also said it won't do the job itself and now you change the parameters. Typical liberal strategy.


You keep trying to twist my words around by changing what I said.  Where did I "change the parameters"?  You also try to dismiss responding by simply saying "liberal ideas".  My point is the same that always been, A PHYSICAL WALL IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY.


My OPINION is the wall is worth the cost. Your OPINION is that it isn't, so there we are again at a stalemate. I could use your approach and tell you to prove your opinion (a gambit used by the left all the time) but I won't since it is only your opinion. Opinions can't be proved.

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