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Honored Social Butterfly

Fact-checking the VP Debate - Like trump Pence 4 Pinochios

Fact-checking the vice presidential debate between Pence and Harris

 

In the vice presidential debate, Vice President Pence took a number of flimsy claims out of the Trump playbook, though he often delivered them more deftly. Sen. Kamala D. Harris also stretched the truth at times. Here is a roundup of 15 suspect claims that were made. As is our practice, we do not award Pinocchios when we do a roundup of facts in debates.

 

“When Joe Biden was vice president of the United States, not 7½ million people contracted the swine flu; 60 million Americans contracted the swine flu. If the swine flu had been as lethal as the coronavirus in 2009 when Joe Biden was vice president, we would have lost 2 million American lives.”

— Pence

 

This is a silly apples-and-oranges comparison. Because the swine flu was not nearly as lethal as the novel coronavirus, there was not nearly as much need to halt its spread. Even with 60 million infections, there were an estimated 12,500 deaths. (Note: That was an after-the-fact report, based on statistical modeling of excess mortality. The actual death toll at the time was much lower.)

 

A New York Times assessment in 2010 noted that some flaws in the system were discovered, but overall the Obama administration was praised for its response — in part because it turned out that the pandemic was not as severe as it once had appeared. The President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology in August 2009 had forecast 30,000 to 90,000 deaths, and the final death toll was much less than that.

 

When Joe Biden was vice president, we lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs.”

— Pence

 

Pence’s statistic depends on some sleight of hand. Obama took office in the midst of the Great Recession, and thus so many jobs were being lost every month that it makes a difference on whether you start counting the start of the term in January or February.

 

A president takes the oath of office on Jan. 20. But for the Current Employment Statistics (CES) survey, employers report data to the Bureau of Labor Statistics for the pay period that includes the 12th of the month — before the new president takes office. So February, not January, would actually cover the first pay period after the new president took charge.

 

The BLS says there is no right answer for when to start counting. Pence starts with January. But if you start counting in February, as many economists recommend, Obama over eight years actually had a modest gain in manufacturing jobs — 4,000.

 

At The Fact Checker, we are dubious about the practice of measuring job growth by presidential term. Presidents do not create jobs; companies and consumers do. This huge difference in a two-term presidency because of a one-month shift simply shows how mindless and arbitrary this game can be.

 

“[We] secured 4 trillion dollars in the Congress of the United States to give direct payments to families, saved 50 million jobs through the Paycheck Protection Program.”

— Pence

 

This “50 million jobs” claim is a dubious number cooked up by the Trump administration. In fact, officials told Reuters that the number referred not to jobs saved, but the total number of workers reported by businesses approved for a loan under the program.

 

“The PPP likely did not save 51 million jobs, or anywhere close to it,” Reuters concluded after interviews with economists and an analysis of the program’s data. “Half a dozen economists put the number of jobs saved by the initiative at only a fraction of 51 million — ranging between one million and 14 million.”

 

Moreover, The Washington Post dug into the data behind the 51-million figure, collected by the Small Business Administration, and found “half a dozen businesses that said they had fewer employees than the SBA reported the businesses had retained. Bankers also said employment figures for hundreds of businesses had been incorrectly reported by the SBA.” For instance, Fire Protection Systems, a sprinkler system installer in Kent, Wash., retained more than 500 jobs using its PPP funds, according to the data. But the company says it has only 20 employees.

 

“The president said it was a hoax.”

— Harris

 

Harris is taking comments from Trump out of context. Trump, at his Feb. 28 campaign rally in North Charleston, S.C., said, “This is their new hoax.”

 

The full quote shows Trump is criticizing Democratic talking points and the media’s coverage of his administration’s response to the coronavirus. He does not say that the virus itself is a hoax.

 

Moreover, at a news conference Feb. 29 with members of the coronavirus task force, Trump was asked about the “hoax” comment. He clarified: “‘Hoax’ referring to the action that [Democrats] take to try and pin this on somebody, because we’ve done such a good job. The hoax is on them, not — I’m not talking about what’s happening here [the virus]; I’m talking what they’re doing. That’s the hoax. … But the way they refer to it — because these people have done such an incredible job, and I don’t like it when they are criticizing these people. And that’s the hoax. That’s what I’m talking about.”

 

Granted, Trump and members of his administration have played down the spread of the virus and falsely touted the strength of their response, as our numerous fact checks have pointed out.

 

“He [Trump] suspended all travel from China, the second-largest economy in the world. Now … Joe Biden … opposed that decision. He said it was xenophobic and hysterical.”

— Pence

 

Trump did not suspend all travel from China. He barred non-U.S. citizens from traveling from China, but there were 11 exceptions, and Hong Kong and Macao were not included. U.S. citizens and permanent residents could still travel from China but were subject to screening and possible 14-day quarantine. Some flights were immediately suspended, but others continued for weeks, at the discretion of the airlines. Many other countries imposed similar bans ahead of the United States, some even tougher.

 

Some analysts at the time predicted that Trump’s action would be ineffective at preventing the virus from taking hold in the United States.

 

“All of the evidence we have indicates that travel restrictions and quarantines directed at individual countries are unlikely to keep the virus out of our borders,” Jennifer Nuzzo, associate professor and senior scholar at Johns Hopkins University’s Center for Health Security, said at a congressional hearing Feb. 5.

 

“We don’t have a travel ban; we have a travel Band-Aid right now,” said Ron Klain, the Ebola “czar” during the Obama administration, at the same hearing. He added that monitoring everyone carefully “is the only practical thing we can do.”

 

The New York Times calculated that at least 430,000 people arrived in the United States on direct flights from China since Jan. 1, including nearly 40,000 in the two months after Trump imposed restrictions. Moreover, screening proceedings of travelers from China have been uneven and inconsistent, the Times said.

 

Pence points to a comment by former vice president Joe Biden — “This is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia … and fearmongering to lead the way instead of science” — but Biden says that did not refer to the travel restrictions. He made no mention of the travel restrictions at the time he made the comment. He later said he supported the restrictions.

In any case, rhe virus was already spreading through the United States, and there is little evidence the travel restrictions on China saved lives, especially because the Trump administration did not rapidly set up an effective testing regimen, as did many other countries.

 

“They left the strategic national stockpile empty. They left an empty and hollow plan.”

—Pence

 

This is a consistent false claim made by the Trump administration. First of all, the pandemic emerged in the last year of the term, so if it was truly empty, some responsibility should rest with Trump. In a statement, the Department of Health and Human Services said that “in January 2017 the total number of ventilators in the SNS inventory immediately available for use would not have been much different than what the SNS had immediately available for use in March 2020.”

 

Second, the Strategic National Stockpile (SNS) was not empty. The administration eventually admitted that there were nearly 17,000 ventilators available when the pandemic emerged. That was more than enough to deal with the crisis in the spring.

 

Ventilators are expensive to procure and to maintain in emergency-ready condition, which is one reason the SNS was not overflowing with ventilators (Another 2,425 ventilators were in maintenance as of March, HHS says, though the New York Times reported in April that 2,109 were unavailable because the government had let a maintenance contract lapse.)

 

As for a “empty and hollow plan,” that is a matter of opinion. The Obama administration left behind a National Security Council staff playbook on fighting pandemics. The color-coded document lists dozens of pointed and detailed questions that top policymakers should be asking themselves if a novel virus suddenly emerges overseas. Some elements certainly could have been helpful, but the Trump White House dismissed it as having little value.

 

So many lies by Pence they can't all fit here....   Fact-checking the vice presidential debate between Pence and Harris 

 

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"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Honored Social Butterfly

: Fact-checking the VP Debate - Like trump Pence 4 Pinochios

 

The Trump Party says people should exercise personal responsibility while wearing masks through their mouth piece Pence at the VP debate while lying to us about how deadly the disease is.

 

They knew this virus was airborne and five times more deadly then the flu, and yet they pushed to reopen the economy knowing tens of thousands of people would die as a result of their lies.

 

 

Honored Social Butterfly

Aside from confirming what attracts flies, Vice Poodle Dense was trying desperately to swing voters in Pennsylvania, home to lots and lots of fracking and dirty coal.

 

He tried using the official Republican approach, HE LIED HIS SKINNY BEHIND OFF. Epic fail - latest polls have Biden with a double-digit lead in Pennsylvania.

 

Another group that did NOT respond well to the poodle's debate style would be WOMEN who are all too familiar with how men will try and talk over them with a lack of concern that only stems from a deep seated belief the woman is NOT an equal in the discussion.

 

All future debates should have a ticker at the bottom of the screen with fact-checks scrolling as the speakers speak and the liars lie.

 

BREAKING NEWS: tRump refuses a virtual debate - can't risk being shut off while Biden is speaking - people might hear Biden tell the truth, and tRump cannot survive that. Also Toad's psychopathic nature needs to kill more people with its disease, and that won't happen "vitrually".

 

 

Honored Social Butterfly

Everything that I heard him say about Kamala, I have been reading in social media for a long time. That Biden is a puppet of the Left. that he is a pedophiclia, that favors late term abortions. that he will bring socialism to this country. and he is a cafeteria Catholic.  Kamala the most Liberal and to the left Senator and the mention of the green deal. abd fracking.
Personally I don't know much about the Green new deal, but I will confess that I don't like AOC at all and I don't want to make a judgement of something that I don't know. 
But if I remember correctly, Laws are made and approved by Congress and the Senate. so unless Biden goes crazy with executive actions. I don't know how the green deal will be in place.I forsee many debates by both sided on this one. so I will wait and see what happens.

 

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Honored Social Butterfly


@Roxanna35 wrote:

Personally I don't know much about the Green new deal, ... I don't want to make a judgement of something that I don't know...  how the green deal will be in place.

 

A Biden administration acknowledges climate change and is ready to apply counter measures against its harmful to humans effects.  Legislation will be added, its Title will become an acronym.  States will follow the leadership of a national plan that gives back more benefit than not.  Science will be allowed to take a seat at the head of the table again.

Honored Social Butterfly

Oceanflower posted..

A Biden administration acknowledges climate change and is ready to apply counter measures against its harmful to humans effects. Legislation will be added, its Title will become an acronym. States will follow the leadership of a national plan that gives back more benefit than not. Science will be allowed to take a seat at the head of the table again.

===========================================================

" Legislation will be added"

Like the the Green New Deal with AOC in charge? Do you have any idea what effect that would have on the economy.. no air planes, no natural gas, etc. You want that?

Climate change has been happening for ever. The city were we live was about 300 feet of water and ice years ago.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@KidBoy2 wrote:

" Legislation will be added"

Like the the Green New Deal with AOC in charge? Is AOC running for office?  Do you have any idea what effect that would have on the economy. (sic). no air planes, no natural gas, etc. You (sic)  want that?

Climate change has been happening for ever (sic). The city were we live was about 300 feet of water and ice years ago. Years ago?  LOL....too funny.
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"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Honored Social Butterfly


@KidBoy2 wrote:
Oceanflower posted..

A Biden administration acknowledges climate change and is ready to apply counter measures against its harmful to humans effects. Legislation will be added, its Title will become an acronym. States will follow the leadership of a national plan that gives back more benefit than not. Science will be allowed to take a seat at the head of the table again.

===========================================================

" Legislation will be added"

Like the the Green New Deal with AOC in charge? Do you have any idea what effect that would have on the economy.. no air planes, no natural gas, etc. You want that?

Climate change has been happening for ever. The city were we live was about 300 feet of water and ice years ago.


Only "years ago" ????....REALLY???!!!

 

Sooooo .... How many "years ago" KidBoy2?

 

 

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
Honored Social Butterfly

I really love it when trump and supporters oppose good jobs, clean air, clean water, renewable energy, and a future for the younger generations...let’s just call this a “Common Sense Plan”!

Let’s hear you attack that. 

All good things take work. 

Social Butterfly

4 Pinochios and a fly on his head.

 

Flies know where the crap is.

 

It's how they survive.

Honored Social Butterfly

The "Green New Deal" is simply a recognition that to save Civilization from the impending disasters flowing from Global Warming will require an effort similar in scope to Roosevelt's New Deal that brought us out of the Great Depression.

 

Republicans know this will involve taxing their GOPerLords at levels not seen since all 8 years of the Eisenhower Administration and the next twenty years before Reagan ended equal taxation for the rich. Since today's GOP considers Ike a Commie and Ronnie a Saint, they will spare no lie in opposing it.

 

The GOPerBots who still think Reagan and tRump gave them a tax cut and have been told to think nothing can be done to slow, let alone stop, Global Warming are determined to destroy Civilization to save the very rich from paying the same taxes their fathers and grandfathers paid all their lives AND BECAME EVEN RICHER WHILE DOING IT.

 

The only solution is to remove the obstructing Republicans from elected office

 

VOTE THEM OUT

THEN

LOCK THEM UP

Esteemed Social Butterfly

One particular thing Pence said and he reiterated it twice that I hoped Kamala would call him out was he said his daddy suspended ALL traffic from China when obviously that was pure 💩.  (Again, he said "ALL traffic" twice.) I do realize that might seem a minor point and being on a debate stage is different than being able to referee from one's own home, but the first cases reported in the U.S. were a WA couple who had traveled in China. 

 

My mind is made up, so the debate was inconsequential, but if I were still on the fence, I would find if maddening that Pence rarely answered the question at hand, instead deflecting by referring to a previous issue already discussed just to further emphasize some talking point and avoid less palatable others.

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