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Treasured Social Butterfly
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Re: Fact Checking 45's Tax Speech Yesterday

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Message 1 of 11

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

First, let's dispense wit hthe most frequent lie told by Republicans:

REDUCING THE NUMBER OF BRACKETS DOES NOT SIMPLIFY TAX PREPERATION!

Anyone who ever filed federal income tax knows this - you calculate your AGI and look up the tax owed in a table provided with your tax forms. Saying fewer brackets makes this easier would be like claiming you could simplify finding phone numbers if you assigned more people the same number so the phonebook would have fewer pages.

The Reaganscam reduced the number of brackets, but the actual tax owed by someone earning the average AGI actually INCREASED by 44% (from 9% of total income to 13%) but the actual tax paid on an AGI of $1,000,000 DECREASED by 63%.

 

Next we have the anti-Aristocracy Tax aka Estate Tax. This has been decimated by GOPers to the point it is now only paid by inheritences ABOVE $5.4Million, a group that includes a TOTAL of 80 -that's the number after 79 - small businesses and family farms. It will save Baron and his sibs several BILLION, if Der Trumper's net worth is anywhere near what he claims, but it will COST We the People $20Billion in lost services or increased Debt.

 

And finally we have the Corporate Income Tax, which involves the second most rfequent GOPerLie - we tax Corporations more than the rest of the World. The actual tax paid by American Corporations is only 25.7% compared with the average for the rest of the industrial nations of 25.4%. This tax provides 10.4% of total revenues collected, down from 25% before Reagan and 50% under Ike with the difference being made up by, you guessed it, less service for the 99% and more Debt for us all.

 

Will the Middle Class benefit from Lemontop's scheme? Not a chance. Any apparent reduction in what you pay will be more than overcome by additional bills you'll get for things that had been paid by taxes that are no longer being collected - Things like your kids school books and supplies and teams and clubs that USED to be "free" in public schools.

 


When the tax code contains 70,000 pages - that in itself requires simplification. My suggestion is have everyone take an exemption equal to whatever the poverty level is considered to be (lets say for example $25K) and that would be subtracted from your gross income.  Take 15% of the remainder and that would be your taxes. Simple, no 70,000 pages of complex instructions, and no deductions for anyone or anything.  No accountants needed, no TurboTax needed, and a postcard form would suffice.  The people below the poverty level would pay zero income tax, just like now.


no flat rate.. a progressive tax is needed. not a bad start tho.


I suggested the simplest.  If you want 2 or three tiers, I agree also but without any exemptions for anything or anybody.  I don't want to have solar write offs, Tesla write offs, credits for this and that, and the gamut of the remaining 70,000 pages of the existing code. With no exemptions, you allow for lower rates and no lawyer hocus pocus.


Id go with property tax on primary residence in one of those levels..no idea where. I get to deduct the taxes on my rentals..and i would imagin there are some very pricy condos that write off property tax. 


I'm going back to my deduct the poverty income and one tier tax.  I see that you now want deductions for things that work for you.  That's how we got to the 70,000 pages of tax code. K.I.S.S. is the acronym for the new tax code. No deductions for anything and that way the rate(s) are the lowest.  You can't have your deductions and I can't have mine and the other folks will want theirs particular to them!


You and I , I think, have discussed taxes before. i think if it was up to just us, we would come up with a workable solution as long as we both agree to budge. It would be nice to have a one page tax code, but i dont think thats achievable.

 

So it begins.
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Re: Fact Checking 45's Tax Speech Yesterday

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Message 2 of 11

@MIseker wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

First, let's dispense wit hthe most frequent lie told by Republicans:

REDUCING THE NUMBER OF BRACKETS DOES NOT SIMPLIFY TAX PREPERATION!

Anyone who ever filed federal income tax knows this - you calculate your AGI and look up the tax owed in a table provided with your tax forms. Saying fewer brackets makes this easier would be like claiming you could simplify finding phone numbers if you assigned more people the same number so the phonebook would have fewer pages.

The Reaganscam reduced the number of brackets, but the actual tax owed by someone earning the average AGI actually INCREASED by 44% (from 9% of total income to 13%) but the actual tax paid on an AGI of $1,000,000 DECREASED by 63%.

 

Next we have the anti-Aristocracy Tax aka Estate Tax. This has been decimated by GOPers to the point it is now only paid by inheritences ABOVE $5.4Million, a group that includes a TOTAL of 80 -that's the number after 79 - small businesses and family farms. It will save Baron and his sibs several BILLION, if Der Trumper's net worth is anywhere near what he claims, but it will COST We the People $20Billion in lost services or increased Debt.

 

And finally we have the Corporate Income Tax, which involves the second most rfequent GOPerLie - we tax Corporations more than the rest of the World. The actual tax paid by American Corporations is only 25.7% compared with the average for the rest of the industrial nations of 25.4%. This tax provides 10.4% of total revenues collected, down from 25% before Reagan and 50% under Ike with the difference being made up by, you guessed it, less service for the 99% and more Debt for us all.

 

Will the Middle Class benefit from Lemontop's scheme? Not a chance. Any apparent reduction in what you pay will be more than overcome by additional bills you'll get for things that had been paid by taxes that are no longer being collected - Things like your kids school books and supplies and teams and clubs that USED to be "free" in public schools.

 


When the tax code contains 70,000 pages - that in itself requires simplification. My suggestion is have everyone take an exemption equal to whatever the poverty level is considered to be (lets say for example $25K) and that would be subtracted from your gross income.  Take 15% of the remainder and that would be your taxes. Simple, no 70,000 pages of complex instructions, and no deductions for anyone or anything.  No accountants needed, no TurboTax needed, and a postcard form would suffice.  The people below the poverty level would pay zero income tax, just like now.


no flat rate.. a progressive tax is needed. not a bad start tho.


I suggested the simplest.  If you want 2 or three tiers, I agree also but without any exemptions for anything or anybody.  I don't want to have solar write offs, Tesla write offs, credits for this and that, and the gamut of the remaining 70,000 pages of the existing code. With no exemptions, you allow for lower rates and no lawyer hocus pocus.


Id go with property tax on primary residence in one of those levels..no idea where. I get to deduct the taxes on my rentals..and i would imagin there are some very pricy condos that write off property tax. 


I'm going back to my deduct the poverty income and one tier tax.  I see that you now want deductions for things that work for you.  That's how we got to the 70,000 pages of tax code. K.I.S.S. is the acronym for the new tax code. No deductions for anything and that way the rate(s) are the lowest.  You can't have your deductions and I can't have mine and the other folks will want theirs particular to them!

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Re: Fact Checking 45's Tax Speech Yesterday

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Message 3 of 11

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

First, let's dispense wit hthe most frequent lie told by Republicans:

REDUCING THE NUMBER OF BRACKETS DOES NOT SIMPLIFY TAX PREPERATION!

Anyone who ever filed federal income tax knows this - you calculate your AGI and look up the tax owed in a table provided with your tax forms. Saying fewer brackets makes this easier would be like claiming you could simplify finding phone numbers if you assigned more people the same number so the phonebook would have fewer pages.

The Reaganscam reduced the number of brackets, but the actual tax owed by someone earning the average AGI actually INCREASED by 44% (from 9% of total income to 13%) but the actual tax paid on an AGI of $1,000,000 DECREASED by 63%.

 

Next we have the anti-Aristocracy Tax aka Estate Tax. This has been decimated by GOPers to the point it is now only paid by inheritences ABOVE $5.4Million, a group that includes a TOTAL of 80 -that's the number after 79 - small businesses and family farms. It will save Baron and his sibs several BILLION, if Der Trumper's net worth is anywhere near what he claims, but it will COST We the People $20Billion in lost services or increased Debt.

 

And finally we have the Corporate Income Tax, which involves the second most rfequent GOPerLie - we tax Corporations more than the rest of the World. The actual tax paid by American Corporations is only 25.7% compared with the average for the rest of the industrial nations of 25.4%. This tax provides 10.4% of total revenues collected, down from 25% before Reagan and 50% under Ike with the difference being made up by, you guessed it, less service for the 99% and more Debt for us all.

 

Will the Middle Class benefit from Lemontop's scheme? Not a chance. Any apparent reduction in what you pay will be more than overcome by additional bills you'll get for things that had been paid by taxes that are no longer being collected - Things like your kids school books and supplies and teams and clubs that USED to be "free" in public schools.

 


When the tax code contains 70,000 pages - that in itself requires simplification. My suggestion is have everyone take an exemption equal to whatever the poverty level is considered to be (lets say for example $25K) and that would be subtracted from your gross income.  Take 15% of the remainder and that would be your taxes. Simple, no 70,000 pages of complex instructions, and no deductions for anyone or anything.  No accountants needed, no TurboTax needed, and a postcard form would suffice.  The people below the poverty level would pay zero income tax, just like now.


no flat rate.. a progressive tax is needed. not a bad start tho.


I suggested the simplest.  If you want 2 or three tiers, I agree also but without any exemptions for anything or anybody.  I don't want to have solar write offs, Tesla write offs, credits for this and that, and the gamut of the remaining 70,000 pages of the existing code. With no exemptions, you allow for lower rates and no lawyer hocus pocus.


Id go with property tax on primary residence in one of those levels..no idea where. I get to deduct the taxes on my rentals..and i would imagin there are some very pricy condos that write off property tax. 

So it begins.
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Re: Fact Checking 45's Tax Speech Yesterday

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Message 4 of 11

@MIseker wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

First, let's dispense wit hthe most frequent lie told by Republicans:

REDUCING THE NUMBER OF BRACKETS DOES NOT SIMPLIFY TAX PREPERATION!

Anyone who ever filed federal income tax knows this - you calculate your AGI and look up the tax owed in a table provided with your tax forms. Saying fewer brackets makes this easier would be like claiming you could simplify finding phone numbers if you assigned more people the same number so the phonebook would have fewer pages.

The Reaganscam reduced the number of brackets, but the actual tax owed by someone earning the average AGI actually INCREASED by 44% (from 9% of total income to 13%) but the actual tax paid on an AGI of $1,000,000 DECREASED by 63%.

 

Next we have the anti-Aristocracy Tax aka Estate Tax. This has been decimated by GOPers to the point it is now only paid by inheritences ABOVE $5.4Million, a group that includes a TOTAL of 80 -that's the number after 79 - small businesses and family farms. It will save Baron and his sibs several BILLION, if Der Trumper's net worth is anywhere near what he claims, but it will COST We the People $20Billion in lost services or increased Debt.

 

And finally we have the Corporate Income Tax, which involves the second most rfequent GOPerLie - we tax Corporations more than the rest of the World. The actual tax paid by American Corporations is only 25.7% compared with the average for the rest of the industrial nations of 25.4%. This tax provides 10.4% of total revenues collected, down from 25% before Reagan and 50% under Ike with the difference being made up by, you guessed it, less service for the 99% and more Debt for us all.

 

Will the Middle Class benefit from Lemontop's scheme? Not a chance. Any apparent reduction in what you pay will be more than overcome by additional bills you'll get for things that had been paid by taxes that are no longer being collected - Things like your kids school books and supplies and teams and clubs that USED to be "free" in public schools.

 


When the tax code contains 70,000 pages - that in itself requires simplification. My suggestion is have everyone take an exemption equal to whatever the poverty level is considered to be (lets say for example $25K) and that would be subtracted from your gross income.  Take 15% of the remainder and that would be your taxes. Simple, no 70,000 pages of complex instructions, and no deductions for anyone or anything.  No accountants needed, no TurboTax needed, and a postcard form would suffice.  The people below the poverty level would pay zero income tax, just like now.


no flat rate.. a progressive tax is needed. not a bad start tho.


I suggested the simplest.  If you want 2 or three tiers, I agree also but without any exemptions for anything or anybody.  I don't want to have solar write offs, Tesla write offs, credits for this and that, and the gamut of the remaining 70,000 pages of the existing code. With no exemptions, you allow for lower rates and no lawyer hocus pocus.

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Re: Fact Checking 45's Tax Speech Yesterday

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Message 5 of 11

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

First, let's dispense wit hthe most frequent lie told by Republicans:

REDUCING THE NUMBER OF BRACKETS DOES NOT SIMPLIFY TAX PREPERATION!

Anyone who ever filed federal income tax knows this - you calculate your AGI and look up the tax owed in a table provided with your tax forms. Saying fewer brackets makes this easier would be like claiming you could simplify finding phone numbers if you assigned more people the same number so the phonebook would have fewer pages.

The Reaganscam reduced the number of brackets, but the actual tax owed by someone earning the average AGI actually INCREASED by 44% (from 9% of total income to 13%) but the actual tax paid on an AGI of $1,000,000 DECREASED by 63%.

 

Next we have the anti-Aristocracy Tax aka Estate Tax. This has been decimated by GOPers to the point it is now only paid by inheritences ABOVE $5.4Million, a group that includes a TOTAL of 80 -that's the number after 79 - small businesses and family farms. It will save Baron and his sibs several BILLION, if Der Trumper's net worth is anywhere near what he claims, but it will COST We the People $20Billion in lost services or increased Debt.

 

And finally we have the Corporate Income Tax, which involves the second most rfequent GOPerLie - we tax Corporations more than the rest of the World. The actual tax paid by American Corporations is only 25.7% compared with the average for the rest of the industrial nations of 25.4%. This tax provides 10.4% of total revenues collected, down from 25% before Reagan and 50% under Ike with the difference being made up by, you guessed it, less service for the 99% and more Debt for us all.

 

Will the Middle Class benefit from Lemontop's scheme? Not a chance. Any apparent reduction in what you pay will be more than overcome by additional bills you'll get for things that had been paid by taxes that are no longer being collected - Things like your kids school books and supplies and teams and clubs that USED to be "free" in public schools.

 


When the tax code contains 70,000 pages - that in itself requires simplification. My suggestion is have everyone take an exemption equal to whatever the poverty level is considered to be (lets say for example $25K) and that would be subtracted from your gross income.  Take 15% of the remainder and that would be your taxes. Simple, no 70,000 pages of complex instructions, and no deductions for anyone or anything.  No accountants needed, no TurboTax needed, and a postcard form would suffice.  The people below the poverty level would pay zero income tax, just like now.


no flat rate.. a progressive tax is needed. not a bad start tho.

So it begins.
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Re: Fact Checking 45's Tax Speech Yesterday

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Message 6 of 11

@afisher wrote:

NOT:    ROFLMAO - are you actually suggesting this for Corporations as well - because as Mitt explained in 2012 for the Republicans, that Corporations are people too?       Who do you believe most of the tax code is written for, the lower and middle income bracket citizens?     


Now I'm ROFLMAO because of your post.  If you reread my prior post, you will see I'm talking ONLY about the personal Federal income tax since corporations don't get measured to see if they are at the poverty level.  The tax code has evolved through decades of deductions and rates favorable to the constituents of that era to a monster that is understandable by CPAs and tax attorneys and they manage to discover any loopholes if you are wealthy enough to afford them.  My post would simplify their jobs out of existence and permit those who are destitute from paying any tax as well as giving everyone the poverty level deduction.

 

Still ROFLMAO???????????????????????

 

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Re: Fact Checking 45's Tax Speech Yesterday

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Message 7 of 11

NOT:    ROFLMAO - are you actually suggesting this for Corporations as well - because as Mitt explained in 2012 for the Republicans, that Corporations are people too?       Who do you believe most of the tax code is written for, the lower and middle income bracket citizens?     

PRO-LIFE is Affordable Healthcare for ALL .
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Re: Fact Checking 45's Tax Speech Yesterday

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Message 8 of 11

@Olderscout66 wrote:

First, let's dispense wit hthe most frequent lie told by Republicans:

REDUCING THE NUMBER OF BRACKETS DOES NOT SIMPLIFY TAX PREPERATION!

Anyone who ever filed federal income tax knows this - you calculate your AGI and look up the tax owed in a table provided with your tax forms. Saying fewer brackets makes this easier would be like claiming you could simplify finding phone numbers if you assigned more people the same number so the phonebook would have fewer pages.

The Reaganscam reduced the number of brackets, but the actual tax owed by someone earning the average AGI actually INCREASED by 44% (from 9% of total income to 13%) but the actual tax paid on an AGI of $1,000,000 DECREASED by 63%.

 

Next we have the anti-Aristocracy Tax aka Estate Tax. This has been decimated by GOPers to the point it is now only paid by inheritences ABOVE $5.4Million, a group that includes a TOTAL of 80 -that's the number after 79 - small businesses and family farms. It will save Baron and his sibs several BILLION, if Der Trumper's net worth is anywhere near what he claims, but it will COST We the People $20Billion in lost services or increased Debt.

 

And finally we have the Corporate Income Tax, which involves the second most rfequent GOPerLie - we tax Corporations more than the rest of the World. The actual tax paid by American Corporations is only 25.7% compared with the average for the rest of the industrial nations of 25.4%. This tax provides 10.4% of total revenues collected, down from 25% before Reagan and 50% under Ike with the difference being made up by, you guessed it, less service for the 99% and more Debt for us all.

 

Will the Middle Class benefit from Lemontop's scheme? Not a chance. Any apparent reduction in what you pay will be more than overcome by additional bills you'll get for things that had been paid by taxes that are no longer being collected - Things like your kids school books and supplies and teams and clubs that USED to be "free" in public schools.

 


When the tax code contains 70,000 pages - that in itself requires simplification. My suggestion is have everyone take an exemption equal to whatever the poverty level is considered to be (lets say for example $25K) and that would be subtracted from your gross income.  Take 15% of the remainder and that would be your taxes. Simple, no 70,000 pages of complex instructions, and no deductions for anyone or anything.  No accountants needed, no TurboTax needed, and a postcard form would suffice.  The people below the poverty level would pay zero income tax, just like now.

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Re: Fact Checking 45's Tax Speech Yesterday

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Message 9 of 11

First, let's dispense wit hthe most frequent lie told by Republicans:

REDUCING THE NUMBER OF BRACKETS DOES NOT SIMPLIFY TAX PREPERATION!

Anyone who ever filed federal income tax knows this - you calculate your AGI and look up the tax owed in a table provided with your tax forms. Saying fewer brackets makes this easier would be like claiming you could simplify finding phone numbers if you assigned more people the same number so the phonebook would have fewer pages.

The Reaganscam reduced the number of brackets, but the actual tax owed by someone earning the average AGI actually INCREASED by 44% (from 9% of total income to 13%) but the actual tax paid on an AGI of $1,000,000 DECREASED by 63%.

 

Next we have the anti-Aristocracy Tax aka Estate Tax. This has been decimated by GOPers to the point it is now only paid by inheritences ABOVE $5.4Million, a group that includes a TOTAL of 80 -that's the number after 79 - small businesses and family farms. It will save Baron and his sibs several BILLION, if Der Trumper's net worth is anywhere near what he claims, but it will COST We the People $20Billion in lost services or increased Debt.

 

And finally we have the Corporate Income Tax, which involves the second most rfequent GOPerLie - we tax Corporations more than the rest of the World. The actual tax paid by American Corporations is only 25.7% compared with the average for the rest of the industrial nations of 25.4%. This tax provides 10.4% of total revenues collected, down from 25% before Reagan and 50% under Ike with the difference being made up by, you guessed it, less service for the 99% and more Debt for us all.

 

Will the Middle Class benefit from Lemontop's scheme? Not a chance. Any apparent reduction in what you pay will be more than overcome by additional bills you'll get for things that had been paid by taxes that are no longer being collected - Things like your kids school books and supplies and teams and clubs that USED to be "free" in public schools.

 

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Re: Fact Checking 45's Tax Speech Yesterday

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Message 10 of 11

    This remains a gambit of smoke and mirrors.    Since Jan, the current regime has gone from a one page power point list to a 9 page baffle with bs...and insufficient details to know how it will really affect most taxpayers - the Estate TAX was the first of what most know will be many lies to reward the wealthy.    

     Will the Freedom Caucus,  Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee say nothing about the National Debt increase of more than 2Trillion, or will that be their next "reason" to kill all public spending?   

PRO-LIFE is Affordable Healthcare for ALL .
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