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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 11 of 38

@FredSmif wrote:

I think people are confusing the rationale for the electoral college with that for having 2 - count 'em, 2! - Senators for each state, no matter how large or how small.

 

The issue of big city slickers overwhelming the good folks in the small towns is addressed by having the Representatives of the districts, based on population. But then each state gets 2 Senators. So, tiny Rhode Island gets the same number of Senators as do New York, California, Florida, and Texas (etc).

 

Note that Rhode Island has a bit over 1 million population. Houston, Texas alone has more than double that population and yet Texas still gets only 2 Senators. Of course, each state has a different number of Representatives.

 

Still, though, it seems to me that these days the states with small populations but still get 2 Senators are now holding many millions of people "hostage". Maybe the time has come to get rid of 2 Senators per state rather than removing the electoral college.

 

The electoral college allows the small states some further leverage by using their Senators. From description of the electoral college at History.com:

 

" It sought to reconcile differing state and federal interests, provide a degree of popular participation in the election, give the less populous states some additional leverage in the process by providing “senatorial” electors, preserve the presidency as independent of Congress, and generally insulate the election process from political manipulation."

 

Again, we have a small group of people holding hostage many millions in the large urban areas.

 

There is the phenomena that rural residents have been heading to the cities for a long time. Farming requires fewer workers, so the younger people move on for opportunities. In the extreme process this will end with fewer and fewer people in small states holding hostage the large urban areas. I am thinking this is becoming unfair. I doubt that the founding fathers had  any idea of the population size that urban areas would become.


Even the House of Representatives favors the smaller states since they get at least one Representative regardless of how few people they have. Each Wyoming Representative represents 569,125 residents while each Texas Representative represents 808,446 residents.

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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 12 of 38

@Fishslayer777 wrote:

For all the people who fell asleep in civics class, and want to put a stop to the electoral college...
1: There are 3,141 counties in the United States. Trump won 2,626 of them. Clinton won 487.
2: There are 62 counties in New York State. Trump won 46 of them. Clinton won 16.
3: Clinton won the popular vote by approx. 1.5 million votes.
4: In the 5 counties that encompass NYC, (Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Richmond & Queens) Clinton received well over 2 million more votes thanTrump. (Clinton only won 4 of these counties; Trump won Richmond) Therefore these 5 counties alone, more than accounted for Clinton winning the popular vote of the entire country.
5: These 5 counties comprise 319 square miles. The United States is comprised of 3,797,000 square miles.
6: When you have a country that encompasses almost 4 million square miles of territory, it would be ludicrous to even suggest that the vote of those who inhabit a mere 319 square miles should dictate the outcome of a national election.
Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) don’t and shouldn’t speak for the rest of the country.
And this children, is WHY you have a Electoral College. It's a safety net so that EVERYONES vote counts.
Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.) don’t and shouldn’t speak for the rest of the country.

Dems lost and now they want to change the rules. This is why we have a CONSTITUTION!


Thanks for the proof that some peoples votes count much more than others.

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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 13 of 38

I support ending the Electoral College because I believe that all people's vote should have equal weight.

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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 14 of 38

No, I don't support the elimination fo the Electoral College.  We are a Constitutional Republic.  Without the Electoral College we would have "The Dictatorship of the Majority" which is only a few states.  I don't want a state like California determining (perhaps should say dictating) who is elected.  The world is already crazy enough.  We don't need someone who would be driven by Hollywood.  They already think they rule.  

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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 15 of 38

Yes I do support elimination of the electoral college.

 

It's original purpose was as a "bribe" to the slave states...

 

Since slavery is no longer permitted, only the dishonest and unpatriotic could ever fabricate any bogus reason for it to still exist.

 

One citizen - one vote...

 

Anything else is neither honest, honorable, nor equitable - that's why tRump, his dishonest and unpatriotic droogs and right wing criminally dishonest trash still want to keep it...

 

 

 

44>dolt45
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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 16 of 38

I don't, actually.  If the EC were eliminated, only the populations on the two coasts would get any attention from candidates.   

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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 17 of 38
Fishslayer777 posted..

Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) don’t and shouldn’t speak for the rest of the country.
And this children, is WHY you have a Electoral College. It's a safety net so that EVERYONES vote counts.
Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.) don’t and shouldn’t speak for the rest of the country.

Dems lost and now they want to change the rules. This is why we have a CONSTITUTION!

====================================================================

The usual cry babies on the left do not care why we have the EC.

If we did not have the EC come the next Presidential Election why would a candidate even care about a state with a small population...they would be spending all their time in the large, densely populated states and cities. When elected the Presidents would favor the same... the large, densely populated states and cities with projects...it does not take anyone with a IQ about 95 to understand that.

If Ms Clinton had won and fewer EC votes the cry babies on the left would think that the EC was the best thing since canned corn.




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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 18 of 38

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:
If you understand we are a (democratic) Republic, then you know why we have the electoral college. History is important and relevant. If you want the elites to run our country, and minority groups underrepresented then you want a democracy and we'd be ruled by simple majority controlled by the few.

Remember back in the day... an example of a minority group were farmers, ranchers, immigrants. They worked outside of the cities and were subject to the rules of the elites. Our whole developing nation was a minority to England. We were outside of London and the ruling class and we had taxation without representation.

You are correct, Fish.  Though, we aren't "back in the day" any longer.  This is "the day" for a younger generations and most of them want change, the electoral college is one of the issues.  Fortunately the founding fathers put in a mechanism to initiate changing the constitution,  It'll change eventually.  It abolished slavery, got women the right to vote and the right to bear arms.  More changes will come....

Representation is the key and if the dems had their way, London would be reincarnated and rule once more.  Complete and utter nonsense.

You are wrong (as usual) again. The reason "back in the day" was (is) the same as it is today. If you as a liberal, think the Constitution should be changed, by all means - take the steps to make it happen. My prediction is it will be fruitless. Now is the time to LMAO again (what liberals do).

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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 19 of 38

@FredSmif wrote:

I think people are confusing the rationale for the electoral college with that for having 2 - count 'em, 2! - Senators for each state, no matter how large or how small.

 

The issue of big city slickers overwhelming the good folks in the small towns is addressed by having the Representatives of the districts, based on population. But then each state gets 2 Senators. So, tiny Rhode Island gets the same number of Senators as do New York, California, Florida, and Texas (etc).

 

Note that Rhode Island has a bit over 1 million population. Houston, Texas alone has more than double that population and yet Texas still gets only 2 Senators. Of course, each state has a different number of Representatives.

 

Still, though, it seems to me that these days the states with small populations but still get 2 Senators are now holding many millions of people "hostage". Maybe the time has come to get rid of 2 Senators per state rather than removing the electoral college.

 

The electoral college allows the small states some further leverage by using their Senators. From description of the electoral college at History.com:

 

" It sought to reconcile differing state and federal interests, provide a degree of popular participation in the election, give the less populous states some additional leverage in the process by providing “senatorial” electors, preserve the presidency as independent of Congress, and generally insulate the election process from political manipulation."

 

Again, we have a small group of people holding hostage many millions in the large urban areas.

 

There is the phenomena that rural residents have been heading to the cities for a long time. Farming requires fewer workers, so the younger people move on for opportunities. In the extreme process this will end with fewer and fewer people in small states holding hostage the large urban areas. I am thinking this is becoming unfair. I doubt that the founding fathers had  any idea of the population size that urban areas would become.


I have always said the the number of Senators per state should be based on population, just as the number of Representatives are. Congress would be much larger and would much more represent the will of the people. But then, Republicans aren't interested in "the will of the people", only 'the will of the Cons'.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 20 of 38

@Panjandrum wrote:

1: There are 3,141 counties in the United States. Trump won 2,626 of them. Clinton won 487.

 

 

 

 

And Clinton still got 3M more votes than Trump because real estate doesn't vote. It doesn't matter how many counties went for Trump over Clinton. 


LOL....LOL...LOL  It does matter in some counties!

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