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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 21 of 38

@JANMB  Great points.  Gee, just got to love the only "two parties" theories, no? Got to put everyone into a box and take away the individual?!


@JANMB wrote:

To sum it up Donald Trump lost the general election to Hillary Clinton by over 2.8 million votes and won the Electoral College by 74 votes

"A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinton,” nytimes.com, Dec. 19, 2016   --  THE Electoral College gives too much power to "swing states" and allows the presidential election to be decided by a handful of states 

 

It is my understanding that the  E C was necessary and implimented  cause women and blacks couldn't vote. Which meant in the case of the black south then the southern states were at a disadvantage.

GET rid of the archaic Electoral College when the last 12 years Gore and Ciinton should have been president which would have change the teams and we would certainly not been in war in Iraq and now had an unquaified president giving us a unqualified team.  

 

 


 

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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 22 of 38

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:

For all the people who fell asleep in civics class, and want to put a stop to the electoral college...
1: There are 3,141 counties in the United States. Trump won 2,626 of them. Clinton won 487.
2: There are 62 counties in New York State. Trump won 46 of them. Clinton won 16.
3: Clinton won the popular vote by approx. 1.5 million votes.
4: In the 5 counties that encompass NYC, (Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Richmond & Queens) Clinton received well over 2 million more votes thanTrump. (Clinton only won 4 of these counties; Trump won Richmond) Therefore these 5 counties alone, more than accounted for Clinton winning the popular vote of the entire country.
5: These 5 counties comprise 319 square miles. The United States is comprised of 3,797,000 square miles.
6: When you have a country that encompasses almost 4 million square miles of territory, it would be ludicrous to even suggest that the vote of those who inhabit a mere 319 square miles should dictate the outcome of a national election.
Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) don’t and shouldn’t speak for the rest of the country.
And this children, is WHY you have a Electoral College. It's a safety net so that EVERYONES vote counts.
Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.) don’t and shouldn’t speak for the rest of the country.

Dems lost and now they want to change the rules. This is why we have a CONSTITUTION!


Exactly the reason why we have an electoral college and why the overcrowded cities shouldn't dictate the "rules" for our country.  So, to Cons, it's not about one person, one voice; it's about how much open land that surrounds the one person.  Hard to get equality when some demand a "self-serving" electoral system.


 


It's certainly NOT having the East and West Coasts dictate the rules for the vast country in between or to put it another way, it isn't having the people that live in 1% of the acreage of the U.S.A. dictate how the people that live in the 99% of the acreage in the U.S.A. live! As a liberal, I don't expect you to agree!


In a Democracy "acreage" shouldn't elect a president, the majority of individual votes in our country should. As a trump supporter, I don't expect you to agree !

 

If the "East and West Coasts" were Conservative, you wouldn't mind them electing our president.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 23 of 38

1: There are 3,141 counties in the United States. Trump won 2,626 of them. Clinton won 487.

 

 

 

 

And Clinton still got 3M more votes than Trump because real estate doesn't vote. It doesn't matter how many counties went for Trump over Clinton. 

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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 24 of 38

Well said, Fred and great points!


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 25 of 38

I think people are confusing the rationale for the electoral college with that for having 2 - count 'em, 2! - Senators for each state, no matter how large or how small.

 

The issue of big city slickers overwhelming the good folks in the small towns is addressed by having the Representatives of the districts, based on population. But then each state gets 2 Senators. So, tiny Rhode Island gets the same number of Senators as do New York, California, Florida, and Texas (etc).

 

Note that Rhode Island has a bit over 1 million population. Houston, Texas alone has more than double that population and yet Texas still gets only 2 Senators. Of course, each state has a different number of Representatives.

 

Still, though, it seems to me that these days the states with small populations but still get 2 Senators are now holding many millions of people "hostage". Maybe the time has come to get rid of 2 Senators per state rather than removing the electoral college.

 

The electoral college allows the small states some further leverage by using their Senators. From description of the electoral college at History.com:

 

" It sought to reconcile differing state and federal interests, provide a degree of popular participation in the election, give the less populous states some additional leverage in the process by providing “senatorial” electors, preserve the presidency as independent of Congress, and generally insulate the election process from political manipulation."

 

Again, we have a small group of people holding hostage many millions in the large urban areas.

 

There is the phenomena that rural residents have been heading to the cities for a long time. Farming requires fewer workers, so the younger people move on for opportunities. In the extreme process this will end with fewer and fewer people in small states holding hostage the large urban areas. I am thinking this is becoming unfair. I doubt that the founding fathers had  any idea of the population size that urban areas would become.

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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 26 of 38

@Fishslayer777 wrote:
If you understand we are a (democratic) Republic, then you know why we have the electoral college. History is important and relevant. If you want the elites to run our country, and minority groups underrepresented then you want a democracy and we'd be ruled by simple majority controlled by the few.

Remember back in the day... an example of a minority group were farmers, ranchers, immigrants. They worked outside of the cities and were subject to the rules of the elites. Our whole developing nation was a minority to England. We were outside of London and the ruling class and we had taxation without representation.

You are correct, Fish.  Though, we aren't "back in the day" any longer.  This is "the day" for a younger generations and most of them want change, the electoral college is one of the issues.  Fortunately the founding fathers put in a mechanism to initiate changing the constitution,  It'll change eventually.  It abolished slavery, got women the right to vote and the right to bear arms.  More changes will come....

Representation is the key and if the dems had their way, London would be reincarnated and rule once more.  Complete and utter nonsense.

"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 27 of 38
If you understand we are a (democratic) Republic, then you know why we have the electoral college. History is important and relevant. If you want the elites to run our country, and minority groups underrepresented then you want a democracy and we'd be ruled by simple majority controlled by the few.

Remember back in the day... an example of a minority group were farmers, ranchers, immigrants. They worked outside of the cities and were subject to the rules of the elites. Our whole developing nation was a minority to England. We were outside of London and the ruling class and we had taxation without representation.

Representation is the key and if the dems had their way, London would be reincarnated and rule once more.

"The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile "
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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 28 of 38
electoral college is completely antiquated and no longer serves a useful purpose. Let the general election decide the Presidential race. What are the conservatives afraid of?
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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 29 of 38

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:

For all the people who fell asleep in civics class, and want to put a stop to the electoral college...
1: There are 3,141 counties in the United States. Trump won 2,626 of them. Clinton won 487.
2: There are 62 counties in New York State. Trump won 46 of them. Clinton won 16.
3: Clinton won the popular vote by approx. 1.5 million votes.
4: In the 5 counties that encompass NYC, (Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Richmond & Queens) Clinton received well over 2 million more votes thanTrump. (Clinton only won 4 of these counties; Trump won Richmond) Therefore these 5 counties alone, more than accounted for Clinton winning the popular vote of the entire country.
5: These 5 counties comprise 319 square miles. The United States is comprised of 3,797,000 square miles.
6: When you have a country that encompasses almost 4 million square miles of territory, it would be ludicrous to even suggest that the vote of those who inhabit a mere 319 square miles should dictate the outcome of a national election.
Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) don’t and shouldn’t speak for the rest of the country.
And this children, is WHY you have a Electoral College. It's a safety net so that EVERYONES vote counts.
Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.) don’t and shouldn’t speak for the rest of the country.

Dems lost and now they want to change the rules. This is why we have a CONSTITUTION!


Exactly the reason why we have an electoral college and why the overcrowded cities shouldn't dictate the "rules" for our country.  So, to Cons, it's not about one person, one voice; it's about how much open land that surrounds the one person.  Hard to get equality when some demand a "self-serving" electoral system.


 


It's certainly NOT having the East and West Coasts dictate the rules Coasts don't vote....people vote.  Why should it matter where those voting people live in a presidential election?  Save it for their state and local elections....  Seems like the Gulf Coast is OK though.....for the vast country in between or to put it another way, it isn't having the people that live in 1% of the acreage of the U.S.A. dictate how the people that live in the 99% of the acreage in the U.S.A. live! In a NATIONAL election, acreage shouldn't matter....it's about equality, right.  A llama farmer in Wyoming's vote is more important than an accpuntant's vote in LA?  Only to a Con.  Again, save it for state and local elections; that makes sense.  As a liberal, Now you claim to be a liberal?  LMAO


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Do you support the recent push by the Democratic Party to eliminate the Electoral College?

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Message 30 of 38

To sum it up Donald Trump lost the general election to Hillary Clinton by over 2.8 million votes and won the Electoral College by 74 votes

"A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinton,” nytimes.com, Dec. 19, 2016   --  THE Electoral College gives too much power to "swing states" and allows the presidential election to be decided by a handful of states 

 

It is my understanding that the  E C was necessary and implimented  cause women and blacks couldn't vote. Which meant in the case of the black south then the southern states were at a disadvantage.

GET rid of the archaic Electoral College when the last 12 years Gore and Ciinton should have been president which would have change the teams and we would certainly not been in war in Iraq and now had an unquaified president giving us a unqualified team.  

 

 

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