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Re: Dems block 'born alive' bill

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Message 1 of 73

A similar 2002 bill, called the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, was passed unanimously by the Senate in 2002 and signed by then-President George W. Bush.

 

Sasse attempted to pass the new bill by unanimous consent earlier this month but was blocked. Unanimous consent requires all 100 senators to agree, and Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.

 

The legislation was introduced after Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam, a Democrat, endorsed post-birth abortions while discussing The Repeal Act, a state bill which sought to repeal restrictions on third-trimester abortions. Virginia Democratic Del. Kathy Tran, a sponsor of that bill, was asked at a hearing if a woman about to give birth and dilating could still request an abortion.

 

From the original post.

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Dems block 'born alive' bill

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Message 2 of 73

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@fangoh45 wrote:


Women who have abortions very late in pregnancy are overwhelmingly doing so because the fetus has some sort of condition incompatible with life. No brain. Fused heart. Or something similar. The baby would likely die quickly if born.  Google Trisomy 13.   There is no baby to adopt.

 

.....and a healthy child???


 


There is no healthy child. That’s the point.


There are many healthy children. And it is the fate of healthy children that the bill is about. Remember, this is not about abortion, this is about healthy survivors of botched abortions.


There is no evidence whatsoever this procedure was ever used to kill a healthy infant.

 

That was the point of the bill under discussion so the rest of the post is meaningless.

 

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Re: Dems block 'born alive' bill

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Message 3 of 73

@Olderscout66 wrote:


Those babies are the ones who fail a simple test: The doctor holds a flashlight on one ear, and the light comes out the other. There is no mammalian brain in between, and the child will never have a thought a lizard can't have, but will require almost constant care for what could be a long life.

 

If Republicans all sign up to adopt all these children so the mother's question will be "do you wish to keep the child, or give it up for adoption?" they would have some say in the process.

 

Failing to come forward and put their money where their mouth is disqualifies them from having any moral authority in the matter.


I had not heard of that flashlight medical procedure used prior to murdering babies. Can you substantiate it - or is it just one more of "those" facts?

 

The adoption issue you threw in is not a factor. The question asked in this topic is not "keep or adoption" it is "keep or murder".

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Re: Dems block 'born alive' bill

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Message 4 of 73

Olderscout wrote-There is no evidence whatsoever this procedure was ever used to kill a healthy infant.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Quite the contrary-Just this past Friday Fox News had a survivor of a failed abortion. She was a attractive lady {about 35} very smart and articulate. She was injected with some type off acid just before birth  which usually kills the baby. She somehow survived and now has two children of her own and now  an avid  anti-abortionist.

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Re: Dems block 'born alive' bill

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Message 5 of 73

@rk9152 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@fangoh45 wrote:


Women who have abortions very late in pregnancy are overwhelmingly doing so because the fetus has some sort of condition incompatible with life. No brain. Fused heart. Or something similar. The baby would likely die quickly if born.  Google Trisomy 13.   There is no baby to adopt.

 

.....and a healthy child???


 


There is no healthy child. That’s the point.


There are many healthy children. And it is the fate of healthy children that the bill is about. Remember, this is not about abortion, this is about healthy survivors of botched abortions.


There is no evidence whatsoever this procedure was ever used to kill a healthy infant.

 

There is considerable evidence the process demanded by GOPers destroys the families forced to deal with the medical bills for the "child" they did not want.

 

This is the inevitable result of thinking Terri Shiavo was still "alive" all those years - endless medical bills for a creature without a functioning mammalian brain, just a reptilian brain stem telling the heart to pump and lungs to breathe.

 

And forgive me for noticing, but the ONLY ones benefiting will be the Corporations owning the medical facility that keeps the reptilian brain alive for as long as possible.

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Re: Dems block 'born alive' bill

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Message 6 of 73
Wow. So you see pro-choice men as selfish, rather than as allies who view women as equals? @Manic.....................I see both men and women as foolish, lazy and careless if they don't know how to find the appropriate protection for sex if they don't want the risk of a pregnancy. I think it is a cop out when I hear or see those who say, "Things happen." When things happen it someone did not take the time and have the common sense to use protection.
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Super Social Butterfly
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Re: Dems block 'born alive' bill

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Message 7 of 73

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

 

You are getting your laws mixed up. That’s not what we are talking about.  If you really think women get abortions because they are having a bad day, then your view of humans is so warped, it’s futile to have a conversation with you.


No - the topic is specifically about babies that survive the abortion procedure.

 

What do you think - should it be legal to kill them??


No. You aren’t reading carefully. I was referring to this quote, that you conveniently edited out of your response:

 

“According to the revised baby killing law a woman can do it also for mental or emotional problems, like maybe a bad headache or she's having a bad day?”

 

And that has NOTHING to do with the current bill.


It's necessary to recognize that the term "baby" used by many anti-abortion nutcases has no relationship to medical and legal realities.

 

Some claim that a fertilized egg is a baby, even though about 50% of them do not implant in the uterine wall and do not remain implanted - all part of how things have worked for hundreds of centuries prior to birth control.

 

Others call a couple of week old embryo a "baby".

 

There's no reasoning with irrational and emotional types who substitute emotionally based falsehoods for reality.


Yet even if it’s emotion-driven, how many anti-choice men would run back into a burning building to save some frozen embryos?  And would they choose to save the 20 embryos by ignoring the baby in the stroller in the next room?  After all, that would mean saving 20 lives over one. Right? 


No embryos in the bill, no fire there, no baby in a stroller - only a baby born as the result of a botched abortion. Are you O.K. with killing that baby.


Nobody is killed. Palliative care is given. Has been the law since 2002. The new bill just levies criminal penalties on the doctors if they fail to do so.  It’s a moot point.


Palliative Care = just a nice sounding phrase for letting the baby die or killing it.

"If there were a situation they were born alive but had no prospect of survival...then normal practice would be to provide palliative care and to relieve any suffering for that baby," for example, "with painkillers," he said. 

And we all know what 'painkillers' would do to a fragile newborn baby who is already struggling to live after all the doctor did to him/her.

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Re: Dems block 'born alive' bill

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Message 8 of 73

@Soosie wrote:

It is starting to seem to me that the posters who yell the loudest about a women's right to abortion are the very people who put them in the postion of being pregnant and then probably forced them to have the abortion.  Men don't want to use common sense about sex and they don't give a rat's patoot about the woman or the child their sperm helped to create.


Wow. So you see pro-choice men as selfish, rather than as allies who view women as equals? 

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Re: Dems block 'born alive' bill

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Message 9 of 73

@easyed598 wrote:

Manic wrote-What exactly is a post birth abortion baby?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------As the Governor of Virginia described it -The baby is borned alived.Then the baby  is kept Confortable until after a discussion with the mother to see if she wants to let it live. If she decides to let it die no post natal care is given to the newborn  baby and then the baby will die on its own by giving it no nourishment or any other usual care insuring  it would live.


Those babies are the ones who fail a simple test: The doctor holds a flashlight on one ear, and the light comes out the other. There is no mammalian brain in between, and the child will never have a thought a lizard can't have, but will require almost constant care for what could be a long life.

 

If Republicans all sign up to adopt all these children so the mother's question will be "do you wish to keep the child, or give it up for adoption?" they would have some say in the process.

 

Failing to come forward and put their money where their mouth is disqualifies them from having any moral authority in the matter.

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Re: Dems block 'born alive' bill

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Message 10 of 73

It is starting to seem to me that the posters who yell the loudest about a women's right to abortion are the very people who put them in the postion of being pregnant and then probably forced them to have the abortion.  Men don't want to use common sense about sex and they don't give a rat's patoot about the woman or the child their sperm helped to create.

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