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Treasured Social Butterfly
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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 11 of 108

@Olderscout66

 

And of course there is more government interference in everyday lives.  If you don't believe it, just look at the media from the United Kingdom.  We've had a taste of that from the Obama administration with their directives on everyday life, including allowing those who claim to be of the opposite sex into restrooms, plus other intrusions. 

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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 12 of 108

@Fishslayer777 wrote:
Are there any good rich people?

Of course there are - they are the rich people who are democrats, liberals, and progressives....

and should the good ones just pay more as a matter of civility or morality?

 

Well of course they would want to - that is - unless they are the kind of despicable creature that would prefer to be a republican or a trump supporter - the scum of the earth...


 

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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 13 of 108
Are there any good rich people? and should the good ones just pay more as a matter of civility or morality?

I'm proud to be everything liberals hate.
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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 14 of 108

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

The question is "Do Americans deserve the Rights the citizens of every other democracy already have?"

 

Republicans shout NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES NO!

Democrats eay emphatically YES.

 

If you think Americans are just as good (or better) than all the other people who elect their own Governments, how can you possibly support any Republican?


What you are really asking is, "Do American citizens have a right to 

the property of others?". Dress it up all you want but that is the essence of the issue.

 

 


Are the poor little rich snowflakes you insist on championing terrified they might have to pay for what they've already taken from the rest of us? Does it fill them with dread that they might need to support the system that makes them richer every year at the same level their parents and grandparents did?

GOOD! It's long past time they did so.

 

The rich and Uberrich have taken a great deal more than they paid for over the last 32 years - proof is the wonderful infrastructure that was left us by our parents and grandparents is laying in ruins while the middle class hasn't had a pay raise in decades and those who complain about how unfair life might become gave themselves undeserved pay hikes of over 300%.

 

WEALTH is NOT income - wealth is the ability to draw on FUTURE income, income is just cash, a medium of exchange and very poor store of value.

 

Nobody will reduce a single bit of WEALTH by reinstating the preReagan tax brackets (adjusted for inflation) but INCOME will redistribute itself as those dividing the profits created by the workers realize they can no longer just keep it all for themselves. Worked like a charm every time we did it, unlike the dribble down fairytale beloved by GOPers which has NEVER worked and neve will.

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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 15 of 108

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:
I think we've identified a whole gaggle of potential sky screamers... in waiting. It's simply amazing the perfection of obtuseness on display. .. or is it obtus-ism?

Here's a nickel kid, go buy yourself a better set of economic policies.


There are two issues getting conflated here. 

 

Economic policies - free market capitalism vs a government controlled economy, either Communist or fascist.

 

Then there is the idea of ownership. The one being questioned here involves private ownership vs government ownership which permits wealth redistribution.

 

In each case, the discussion is really not about 100% one way or the other. It is about the degree to which the relationship between the government and the governed operates in one direction or the other. 


You are attempting to change the discussion in order to support your opinions.  The topic is not who owns wealth or the means of production.  You have been around long enough to know that is the question of Socialism.  No reasonable person would say that Canada or Norway have government ownership of the means of production. 

It is very much about whether the government has the right to redistribute the wealth of some. And it is very much about who controls the means of production. Small steps in the wrong direction often seem like a good idea. However, small steps often create a desire for more small steps (look at our entitlement programs) and the further you go, the harder it is to draw back.

 

The question is how services (not goods) are best delivered.  No one would argue that McDonalds should be state owned or operated.  But if your current policies do not give 100% coverage for health care, retirement funding, child care, elder care, and provide enough wages per family to survive, you need to change them. 

Regulating the salaries McDonalds pays and the rest is a step towards the fascist economic model (private ownership but government control).


 

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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 16 of 108

@Olderscout66 wrote:

The question is "Do Americans deserve the Rights the citizens of every other democracy already have?"

 

Republicans shout NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES NO!

Democrats eay emphatically YES.

 

If you think Americans are just as good (or better) than all the other people who elect their own Governments, how can you possibly support any Republican?


What you are really asking is, "Do American citizens have a right to 

the property of others?". Dress it up all you want but that is the essence of the issue.

 

 

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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 17 of 108

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:
I think we've identified a whole gaggle of potential sky screamers... in waiting. It's simply amazing the perfection of obtuseness on display. .. or is it obtus-ism?

Here's a nickel kid, go buy yourself a better set of economic policies.


There are two issues getting conflated here. 

 

Economic policies - free market capitalism vs a government controlled economy, either Communist or fascist.

 

Then there is the idea of ownership. The one being questioned here involves private ownership vs government ownership which permits wealth redistribution.

 

In each case, the discussion is really not about 100% one way or the other. It is about the degree to which the relationship between the government and the governed operates in one direction or the other. 


You are attempting to change the discussion in order to support your opinions.  The topic is not who owns wealth or the means of production.  You have been around long enough to know that is the question of Socialism.  No reasonable person would say that Canada or Norway have government ownership of the means of production. 

 

The question is how services (not goods) are best delivered.  No one would argue that McDonalds should be state owned or operated.  But if your current policies do not give 100% coverage for health care, retirement funding, child care, elder care, and provide enough wages per family to survive, you need to change them. 

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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 18 of 108

The question is "Do Americans deserve the Rights the citizens of every other democracy already have?"

 

Republicans shout NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES NO!

Democrats eay emphatically YES.

 

If you think Americans are just as good (or better) than all the other people who elect their own Governments, how can you possibly support any Republican?

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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 19 of 108

@Richva wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:
I think we've identified a whole gaggle of potential sky screamers... in waiting. It's simply amazing the perfection of obtuseness on display. .. or is it obtus-ism?

Here's a nickel kid, go buy yourself a better set of economic policies.


There are two issues getting conflated here. 

 

Economic policies - free market capitalism vs a government controlled economy, either Communist or fascist.

 

Then there is the idea of ownership. The one being questioned here involves private ownership vs government ownership which permits wealth redistribution.

 

In each case, the discussion is really not about 100% one way or the other. It is about the degree to which the relationship between the government and the governed operates in one direction or the other. 

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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 20 of 108

@Fishslayer777 wrote:
I think we've identified a whole gaggle of potential sky screamers... in waiting. It's simply amazing the perfection of obtuseness on display. .. or is it obtus-ism?

Here's a nickel kid, go buy yourself a better set of economic policies.

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