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Respected Social Butterfly
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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 91 of 108

@Richva wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:

We've all heard the news, heard the sound bytes.  The democrat party is moving further to the left politically. We all  know that... right? (pun unintended)

However ... how far left? and still able to engage and capture votes from those in the "middle'' and independents. 

 

We know minorities, students and urbanites vote democrat and rural folks and oldies vote republican primarily, but what about the suburbanites?  Those folks are from everywhere on the economic scale.  

 

Is America ready for european style socialism? 

 

 


History tells us the Democrats will keep going  to the left until a little after it stops appealing to the majority of American voters and then they will have to adjust.  

 

Americans don't really think in terms of economic dogma but more about what works and what is not working. If you went to the average American and asked if they wanted a Socialist system, they would decline.  When you start talking about their problems; health care, retirement, day care for children and older adults, education, they know what we have been doing is not working.  Add to that that 78% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and you have a fertile ground for making real changes. 

 

In many ways, America is beginning to look like the old Soviet Union. The leaders with a stake in the status quo expound on the inevitability of (Capitalism/Communism/Socialism) while the distance between the privileged and the rest grows, homelessness is spreading up from the bottom and people have real worries about paying their bills. 

 

So, if you say here is a solution to your health,child,adult,retirement, and education problems which I can prove has worked in multiple countries, they are becoming very, very interested. 

 

 


 

Good analysis. Pluralistic view. 

 

There is no doubt, in the way you describe it, many would like to be part of that. I always believe "socialism", per se ... would work best with small or smaller - like minded groups. For instance my church offers so much to the disenfranchise/economically challenged member's, addicted, homeless, feeding the poor,  prisoners back into society etc. 

 

Tribes a socialistic. Country like Denmark small population, same language, common ancestry, culture,  work ethic etc. seems to work, but of course socialism has struggled around the world too, with many failures. 

 

Not sure about the USA... and the cultural diversity. 


"Liberals are totalitarians screaming to get out"
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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 92 of 108

@rker321 wrote:

The problem that you seem to have that you already divide the Democrats/leftist  and Republicans. and don't consider people that may not fit that category.

For example, me. I am a Republican, have been one for 50 years and I would like for you to explain to me as to what is the difference between the European socialism and the American socialism.

 Is one better than the other? what are your examples, what does the US lacks in this regard. what would you think you would implement.?


@rker321 - You qualify for the Endangered Species List - an Eisenhower Republican. Not sure your question is directed at me, but allow me to answer anyway:

American Socialism is a fantasy used by the neoRepublicans to freighten their base into rejecting Government services for anything, including social Security and Medicare, which they want to privatize and destroy.

 

European Socialism removes anxiety from the population by eliminating the things that can seriously harm their citizens. Things like poor schools for their kids and unaffordable college for young adults do not exist in Europe.

 

Nor do bankruptcy from medical bills, working while sick because you have no sick leave and spending more hours a day working for less real income.

 

Then there's the fact there are NO deaths from food poisoning in Europe while we kill 9,000 each year to protect profits of the food processors.

 

Having PAID maternity leave so women never wind up with miscarrages and serious medical problems from having to continue work before and immediately after they give birth as do American women.

 

European women have free daycare so they don't have to give up half (or more) of their paychcek to care for their small children while the work.

 

 They pay for all this by having a tax structure very like the one we had BEFORE the Reagan Taxscam. Every year their rich get richer, but the middle gets richer faster, so every year the gap between rich and poor SHRINKS.

 

The ONLY reason we don't have all this is neoREPUBLICANS want to insure only the top 10% enjoys The Good Life, AND THE 90% PAY FOR IT!

 

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 93 of 108

rker321 , I wish we had more reasonable Republicans such as yourself , instead of today's far right nonsense running the show. I was a Republican , an Eisenhower fan , but that party has left town !!

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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 94 of 108

The problem that you seem to have that you already divide the Democrats/leftist  and Republicans. and don't consider people that may not fit that category.

For example, me. I am a Republican, have been one for 50 years and I would like for you to explain to me as to what is the difference between the European socialism and the American socialism.

 Is one better than the other? what are your examples, what does the US lacks in this regard. what would you think you would implement.?

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 95 of 108

@Fishslayer777 wrote:
I didn't say they "had" anything we don't have. I thought an example would make it easier to understand for all... since democrats in our country often use Denmark as an example of "socialism that works".

We have government programs
Most people are happy in the US (except here)

So we agree, in part.

Most Americans (60-70%) are NOT happy with the way things are going and when asked about their satisfaction with the standard of living, we come in 23d place among industrialized Nations. The fact it is very difficult for most folks to even consider leaving the country is NOT an indication they're happy being here.

 

So Denmark's Government services would be ok with you - Great.

They have:

52 Weeks of PAID Maternity/Paternity leave

5 weeks of PAID annual leave plus 9 national Holidays

Universal, Single payer health care for ALL citizens

There is no tuition for college/university

Students receive $900/month for living expenses while in college

Children receive free day care

A 60.2% TMR on incomes above $59,000.

 

They are the happiest people on earth (or close to the top) every year because they have used their Government to eliminate the worries that plague average Americans - health care, cost of higher education, finding day care, having more time with family.

 

We can do much better, but only after we get rid of the neoRepublicans who think we should rely on Corporate Oligarchs for all those things and not our Government so we don't become DEPENDENT on The Good Life which GOPers want to reserve for the top 10%, paid for by the bottom 90%.

 

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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 96 of 108

@Fishslayer777 wrote:

We've all heard the news, heard the sound bytes.  The democrat party is moving further to the left politically. We all  know that... right? (pun unintended)

However ... how far left? and still able to engage and capture votes from those in the "middle'' and independents. 

 

We know minorities, students and urbanites vote democrat and rural folks and oldies vote republican primarily, but what about the suburbanites?  Those folks are from everywhere on the economic scale.  

 

Is America ready for european style socialism? 

 

 


History tells us the Democrats will keep going  to the left until a little after it stops appealing to the majority of American voters and then they will have to adjust.  

 

Americans don't really think in terms of economic dogma but more about what works and what is not working. If you went to the average American and asked if they wanted a Socialist system, they would decline.  When you start talking about their problems; health care, retirement, day care for children and older adults, education, they know what we have been doing is not working.  Add to that that 78% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and you have a fertile ground for making real changes. 

 

In many ways, America is beginning to look like the old Soviet Union. The leaders with a stake in the status quo expound on the inevitability of (Capitalism/Communism/Socialism) while the distance between the privileged and the rest grows, homelessness is spreading up from the bottom and people have real worries about paying their bills. 

 

So, if you say here is a solution to your health,child,adult,retirement, and education problems which I can prove has worked in multiple countries, they are becoming very, very interested. 

 

 

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Respected Social Butterfly
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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 97 of 108

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:

So do our resident lefties think the country will go (majority) for socialism? Bernie Sanders type socialism or maybe DiBlasio type. 


How about the type of socialism we have had in this country for over two centuries?


Well to me... we don't have "a socialistic economic system", but we do have programs that are common to socialism. Most economic systems that are "socilistic" in nature could be gauged from 1-10 with 10 being the most and one the least. We're probably a strong "2" or a "3". Denmark would be a 8... IMO.


"Liberals are totalitarians screaming to get out"
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Respected Social Butterfly
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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 98 of 108
I didn't say they "had" anything we don't have. I thought an example would make it easier to understand for all... since democrats in our country often use Denmark as an example of "socialism that works".

We have government programs
Most people are happy in the US (except here)

So we agree, in part.

"Liberals are totalitarians screaming to get out"
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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 99 of 108

@Fishslayer777 wrote:

@rker321 wrote:

And can you explain what is it that you understand by Eruropean type of socialism? please explain.


How about an example? .... Denmark.    HUH!!!!!!

 

Happiest country in the world, lots of government programs, and democratic.


wHERE IS THE EXPLANTION AS TO THE EUROPEAN SOCIALISM? WHAT DO THEY HAVE THAT WE DON'T HAVE NOW? IN YOUR OWN WORDS PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT IS IT THAT YOU MEAN BY EUROPEAN SOCIALISM? EXAMPLES PLEASE

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Re: Democrats and Socialism

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Message 100 of 108

@Fishslayer777 wrote:

So do our resident lefties think the country will go (majority) for socialism? Bernie Sanders type socialism or maybe DiBlasio type. 


How about the type of socialism we have had in this country for over two centuries?

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