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Re: Democrats Need To Discard Their Incrementalism and End Their Capitulation

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Message 41 of 50

@phyllisc6781 wrote:

DACA recipients are here legally. Are you serious? or are you trying to make a point.

 

Further, listening to CNN this AM, a Republican rep. said the majority of the House wants to put together a bi-partisan bill that protects the “Dreamers.”  I don't doubt that, but is the Republicans that will not accept that.

 

These are the innocents. They are in school, are gainfully employed, are contributing members of society.They do represent what their parents have done, but gainfully employed? not until DACA. and yes, they do deserve to get legal stauts. nota temporary one.

 

Only shortsighted, low IQ fools would willingly want to expel people who so strengthen this country. Not fools, but politicians that want to see themselves in power forever. and these kids represent a force that may outs them all.

 

Maybe, instead of going after innocent people, we should expel shortsighted, low IQ fools!  Well, that is not a possiblity, so, let's stick with reality.

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!

 

 


 

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Re: Democrats Need To Discard Their Incrementalism and End Their Capitulation

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Message 42 of 50

DACA recipients are here legally.

 

Further, listening to CNN this AM, a Republican rep. said the majority of the House wants to put together a bi-partisan bill that protects the “Dreamers.” 

 

These are the innocents. They are in school, are gainfully employed, are contributing members of society.

 

Only shortsighted, low IQ fools would willingly want to expel people who so strengthen this country.

 

Maybe, instead of going after innocent people, we should expel shortsighted, low IQ fools! 

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!

 

 

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Re: Democrats Need To Discard Their Incrementalism and End Their Capitulation

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Message 43 of 50

ChasKy53:  The Democrats' unwillingness to hold out for more than a weekend is even more absurd when compared to the last time the GOP shut down the government in 2013.

 

Maybe...or maybe not. I saw a form of this argument (sort of) yesterday & it made me think. The Dems actually may have made a good move. If they had held firm and prolonged the shutdown, there was no guarantee they would have gotten what they wanted with DACA. While the public is overwhelmingly in support of the Dreamers, they do not want a shutdown, so prolonging it risked turning opinion against the Dreamers. Also, if it had finally ended with no DACA win, there would also have been no CHIP funding.

But by doing what they did, the Dems secured CHIP funding (no small thing), and now DACA will be discussed until it comes up as promised and the Republicans will show the country once again what bigots they are.

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Re: Democrats Need To Discard Their Incrementalism and End Their Capitulation

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Message 44 of 50

CriticalThinking:

  • They have no knowledge of the facts. Almost half of all illegal immigrants came here LEGALLY and stayed in the country after their visa expired. 
  • Illegal immigration on the Mexican border is at its lowest point in years

 

Your mistake is living in the real world, dealing with real facts. You have to remember that in Trump World criminals and drug dealers are pouring over the border in record numbers to pillage, rape, and murder innocent Americans and their Hero Trump is putting an end to it. They don't care if a wall is a colossal waste of resources that will do nothing, Dear Leader said it's needed and that is that.

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Democrats Need To Discard Their Incrementalism and End Their Capitulation

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Message 45 of 50

Once again, Trump supporters do not think nor analyze the issues. They blindly respond to what Trump tells them or what they hear on Fox. Here's a perfect example:

 

"My advice to Democrats -give the President The WALL"

 

  • They have no knowledge of the facts. Almost half of all illegal immigrants came here LEGALLY and stayed in the country after their visa expired. 
  • Illegal immigration on the Mexican border is at its lowest point in years
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Re: Democrats Need To Discard Their Incrementalism and End Their Capitulation

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Message 46 of 50

Gruffstuff wrote-My advice to Republicans is to save face and make it happen, you can even pretend you're doing the right thing, no one will believe you, but you can pretend._________________________________________________________________________-My advice to Democrats -give the President The WALL and put a permanent policy in place where we stop illegal immigration and there will be no more DACA situations in the future. This could happen but knowing the DEMS they will want a lot of exceptions and hopefully Trump will hold the line . (Trump did run on the wall and stopping illegal immigration). The Dems can pretend that is what they want too, no one will believe you but you can pretend.

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Re: Democrats Need To Discard Their Incrementalism and End Their Capitulation

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Message 47 of 50

I will tell you all what is going to happen on Feb8th.   
The Senate will pass the DACA bill and other issues. no problem with that, but, bear in mind that they have done this before. so it is expected.

Now. the House.

If anyone here is naive enough to really think that the Tea Party people in the House are going to relent on the DACA issue, you are all dreaming.

The Freedom Caucus is too afraid of providing path to citizenship to 600k DACA kids that they know will never vote for them once if  they become American citizens.

 so, sorry guys no DACA deal. and we will stand as before.

The only solution for Daca will be when there is some check and balances in Congress. If the Democrats can win the House or the Senate, they that will be the stopgap that can save this country from oblivion.

Now about the Democrats, if what I have seen as the future candidates for 2020  frankly i wouldn't vote for any of them. sorry, They better come up with better candidates.
Now about Immigration reform. 
Having worked with this issue for over 20 years, I will tell all of you, that what has been proposed is what it should be.

End the lottery program. end the chain migration. That is the most corrosive way to have in the immigration  system. Stop the lack of knowledge as to what the Family Reunification means and start thinking. Chain immigration is not good for this country and needs to be revised.  A merit system is more appropriate at this time in history for this country. we are not in the middle of the  Industrial revolution.
Dealing with overstayed visas, and H1b visas is imperative. and providing means to make any undocumented person that has been here for years with the ability to become a green card holder is imperative. for the future.

Remember one thing that people in this country don't want to understand.  becoming a green card holder doesn't mean that you HAVE TO BECOME A CITIZEN.  becoming a citizen is voluntary. and only those that want to renounce their country should become citizens.
We need changes in the way we do things. and hold the most important part of all of this.   There are Republicans, there are Democrats and there are Americans, it is up to each of you, what you want to become.

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Re: Democrats Need To Discard Their Incrementalism and End Their Capitulation

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Message 48 of 50

There is no act of treachery or meaness of which a political party is not capable; for in politics there is no honour.

--Benjamin Disraeli

Winter is Coming.
11/06
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Re: Democrats Need To Discard Their Incrementalism and End Their Capitulation

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Message 49 of 50

Senate Democrats on Monday voted overwhelmingly to end the government shutdown without protections for the DREAMERs 

 

For three weeks if I understand it correctly.

 

I can wait three weeks, but I won't take no for an answer on the Dreamers

 

Not only is deporting Dreamers wrong, it's just plain stupid, we as a society have invested a huge amount of time, effort and money in these young people. in all but birthright they are Americans.

 

I'm with the 87% of Americans that think they should be allowed to stay, Republicans need to look at that number and get the Russians to do some math for them.

 

My advice to Republicans is to save face and make it happen, you can even pretend you're doing the right thing, no one will believe you, but you can pretend.

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Democrats Need To Discard Their Incrementalism and End Their Capitulation

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Message 50 of 50

Jamie Peck 

Democrats need to discard their incrementalism and end their capitulation

Party leaders must learn from the GOP and listen to their base, which skews as progressive as the Republicans’ does reactionary

Jan.23.2018 / 3:40 AM ET

 

Senate Democrats on Monday voted overwhelmingly to end the government shutdown without protections for the DREAMERs — law-abiding members of society who were brought to this country as children by undocumented parents, many of whom know no other home and who were protected from deportation and allowed to legally work by the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals policy eliminated by President Trump in 2017.

In a speech on the Senate floor on Monday morning, Majority Leader McConnell promised a “free and open debate” on immigration next month if — “if” — the issue is not settled by then. “Every day we spend arguing about keeping the lights on is another day we cannot spend negotiating DACA or defense spending or any of our other shared priorities,” said McConnell. He promised “a level playing field at the outset and an amendment process that is fair to all sides” before adding that he’s got a bridge to sell the Democrats, too, should they act quickly.

The Democrats' unwillingness to hold out for more than a weekend is even more absurd when compared to the last time the GOP shut down the government in 2013.

For the Democratic Party’s progressive base, their capitulation was a disappointing end to a moment in which it seemed like the party might finally take a real stand against abhorrent Republican policies. Considering the massive unpopularity of Trump’s immigration agenda — a recent CBS News poll found that some 87% of Americans believe that the DREAMERs should be allowed to stay in the country, should they meet certain requirements — the budget negotiations seemed like an ideal opportunity for the party to draw a line in the sand and then blame the shutdown on the GOP’s single-minded commitment to racist, reactionary policy.

 

More at LINK:

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/democrats-need-discard-their-incrementalism-end-their-capitula...


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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