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Honored Social Butterfly

Re: Democratic socialism

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Message 71 of 280

Let's get one thing perfectly clear:

REAGAN ONLY CUT TAXES ON THE RICH.

In 1981, he cut the TMR from 70% on income above $400,000 (married filing jointly) where it had been from 1965 thru 1980, to 50% on income above $85,600. Then from 1981 until 1987, he kept increasing the level at which the 50% applied, reducing taxes for all those at the top. In 1987, he cut the TMR to 38.5% on incomes over $90K and in 1988, had only 2 rates - 15% on income 0 to $29,750 and 28% for amounts above $29,750.

 

To get a feel for how much he jacked taxes on the 99%, consider: In 1980 a person with taxable income (AGI) of $1,000,000.00 would have paid about $540,000 in Federal Income taxes. In 1988, that same $1,000,000 AGI would pay $276,132.50 BUT as wingers love to point out, the total revenue from taxes was HIGHER.

 

So, if in 1988, the people with million dollar AGIs paid HALF of what they paid in 1980, and a bigger total was collected, WHO PAID THE INCREASE?

 

I don't have a problem with tax cuts. What I TOTALLY object to are wealth redistributions FROM the bottom 99% TO the top of the 1% disguised as tax cuts.

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Re: Democratic socialism

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Message 72 of 280

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

First, if you want to get into an Economics discussion, you will want to read John Maynard Keynes and others who say the easiest and cheapest way to stimulate an economy is from the bottom up, not the top down.
Yes, to "stimulate" the economy (when needed). The Dems have perverted Keynes concept into a permanent condition.
I personally believe that the free market has natural flows and government interference only tends to stifle the natural corrections a healthy economy needs.

You'll have to be more specific.  What has happened to pervert Keynes concept into a permanent condition.  The free market has been allowed to self correct. The last time the Government stepped in to stop a correction is when we were the verge of an economic collapse.


As I am sure you have seen, there are posters calling for major increases in taxes so that there can be massive increases in spending on a permanent basis. That goes well beyond Keynes.

 

Janet Yellen has been interfering with the natural correction of the market for years.


Or, they are calling for additional taxes in order to pay down the debt that was run up in part to keep the economy moving.  In basic Economics, there are 3 major spenders, consumers, businesses and government.  If consumers and businesses stop spending, then the government needs to increase spending to keep the economy afloat.  So, when times are bad, spending increases, when times are good, the debt needs to be repaid.

 

Yes, that is the Keynes approach. However, in his thinking it is a short term "boost", not a continuing part of the economy. As to paying down the debt - if there were to be a guarantee that such would be the use of a temporary increase, I would support it. But, history teaches us that increased revenue manages to find it's way into new spending.

 

Yellen controlling the money supply is more of a Monetarist economic action (Miltion Friedman) than a Keynesian one.  But the goal of controlling the money supply has been to stimulate the consumer economy by keeping interest rates low.  The main purpose has been to keep us out of a recession, not to stop corrections, which have happened.

 

I know that theoretically was the goal. But her QE did nothing but get money to the banks that (due to her low interest rates) opted to invest rather than loan and most of the money went to Wall Street building an artificial bubble. And you know what happens to bubbles.

 


 


So what would you have done?  Would you rather be living through our economic recovery, or the economic recovery going on in the European Union, which took a different approach?

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Re: Democratic socialism

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Message 73 of 280

Repeal of the Reagan Taxscam will increase Federal Income tax revenues by $1.4 Trillion while creating a significant REDUCTION in ALL taxes for the bottom 90%. The additional revenues would allow a restart for Revenue Sharing, which will further lower the tax burden on the 90% by making k-12 education "free" (no fees for textbook rental or participation in sports, music, etc) and make college totally affordable without huge borrowing. Further, it will finance the maintenance and improvement of our decaying infrastructure, which puts to money into the paychecks of construction workers who will spend it, and yes some of the spending will be on better vacations, but virtually ALL of it will go to increase demand which will increase GDP by twice the current anemic rate.

 

The total amount collected in all forms will not change, only without the Reagan scam, the tax will once again come from people's surplus income, not their "daily bread". Further, once the ones dividing the profits see they cannot keep all they give themselves, they will once again return the profits to the workers whose productivity increases produced those profits. This part might take awhile, but it took awhile for the top 1% to realize they COULD just give all the profits to themselves and their "assistants" (senior management) instead of the workers.

 

For the past 32 years, that surplus (now $1.4Trillion/year) went into sterile investments - existing stocks, bonds and realestate, instead of improvements to infrastructure resulting in wage stagnation for the 90% and deterioration of the infrastructure our grandparents left us.

 

Or we can continue to create more billionaires while everything that makes America great vanishes.

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Re: Democratic socialism

314 Views
Message 74 of 280

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

As I am sure you have seen, there are posters calling for major increases in taxes so that there can be massive increases in spending on a permanent basis. That goes well beyond Keynes.

 

Janet Yellen has been interfering with the natural correction of the market for years.


I have to say that the only "call to increase taxes" was by accusation in your posts. I did not see any other poster calling for that.  It is not a bad idea but no one called for it.  I will say that what I have seen of the Trump plan is that it is mostly bullet points.  Feel free to show me the link to the text if I am wrong. 


I would not want to speak for another poster, so......

 

scout - Rich has a question for you.


I assume you mean me, so I will respond.  Before we even consider a tax increase, we need to stop the tax decreases to the richest.  That will probably be enough so taxes do not need to increase, but if we keep cutting the taxes of the richest, somebody will have to pick up the tab.

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Re: Democratic socialism

321 Views
Message 75 of 280

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

First, if you want to get into an Economics discussion, you will want to read John Maynard Keynes and others who say the easiest and cheapest way to stimulate an economy is from the bottom up, not the top down.
Yes, to "stimulate" the economy (when needed). The Dems have perverted Keynes concept into a permanent condition.
I personally believe that the free market has natural flows and government interference only tends to stifle the natural corrections a healthy economy needs.

You'll have to be more specific.  What has happened to pervert Keynes concept into a permanent condition.  The free market has been allowed to self correct. The last time the Government stepped in to stop a correction is when we were the verge of an economic collapse.


As I am sure you have seen, there are posters calling for major increases in taxes so that there can be massive increases in spending on a permanent basis. That goes well beyond Keynes.

 

Janet Yellen has been interfering with the natural correction of the market for years.


Or, they are calling for additional taxes in order to pay down the debt that was run up in part to keep the economy moving.  In basic Economics, there are 3 major spenders, consumers, businesses and government.  If consumers and businesses stop spending, then the government needs to increase spending to keep the economy afloat.  So, when times are bad, spending increases, when times are good, the debt needs to be repaid.

 

Yes, that is the Keynes approach. However, in his thinking it is a short term "boost", not a continuing part of the economy. As to paying down the debt - if there were to be a guarantee that such would be the use of a temporary increase, I would support it. But, history teaches us that increased revenue manages to find it's way into new spending.

 

Yellen controlling the money supply is more of a Monetarist economic action (Miltion Friedman) than a Keynesian one.  But the goal of controlling the money supply has been to stimulate the consumer economy by keeping interest rates low.  The main purpose has been to keep us out of a recession, not to stop corrections, which have happened.

 

I know that theoretically was the goal. But her QE did nothing but get money to the banks that (due to her low interest rates) opted to invest rather than loan and most of the money went to Wall Street building an artificial bubble. And you know what happens to bubbles.

 


 

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Re: Democratic socialism

315 Views
Message 76 of 280

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

As I am sure you have seen, there are posters calling for major increases in taxes so that there can be massive increases in spending on a permanent basis. That goes well beyond Keynes.

 

Janet Yellen has been interfering with the natural correction of the market for years.


I have to say that the only "call to increase taxes" was by accusation in your posts. I did not see any other poster calling for that.  It is not a bad idea but no one called for it.  I will say that what I have seen of the Trump plan is that it is mostly bullet points.  Feel free to show me the link to the text if I am wrong. 


I would not want to speak for another poster, so......

 

scout - Rich has a question for you.

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Re: Democratic socialism

326 Views
Message 77 of 280

Sp362-- I so enjoy  your intelligent informational posts.

Thank you, and keep them coming! 

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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Re: Democratic socialism

323 Views
Message 78 of 280

Sp362--You are right! Thank God Obama was in the WH and not little donnie. Obama saved this country--trump, on the other hand, seems to be trying to destroy this country on all fronts! Thank you for your post!

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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Re: Democratic socialism

327 Views
Message 79 of 280

@rk9152 wrote:

As I am sure you have seen, there are posters calling for major increases in taxes so that there can be massive increases in spending on a permanent basis. That goes well beyond Keynes.

 

Janet Yellen has been interfering with the natural correction of the market for years.


I have to say that the only "call to increase taxes" was by accusation in your posts. I did not see any other poster calling for that.  It is not a bad idea but no one called for it.  I will say that what I have seen of the Trump plan is that it is mostly bullet points.  Feel free to show me the link to the text if I am wrong. 

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Re: Democratic socialism

331 Views
Message 80 of 280

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

First, if you want to get into an Economics discussion, you will want to read John Maynard Keynes and others who say the easiest and cheapest way to stimulate an economy is from the bottom up, not the top down.
Yes, to "stimulate" the economy (when needed). The Dems have perverted Keynes concept into a permanent condition.
I personally believe that the free market has natural flows and government interference only tends to stifle the natural corrections a healthy economy needs.

You'll have to be more specific.  What has happened to pervert Keynes concept into a permanent condition.  The free market has been allowed to self correct. The last time the Government stepped in to stop a correction is when we were the verge of an economic collapse.


As I am sure you have seen, there are posters calling for major increases in taxes so that there can be massive increases in spending on a permanent basis. That goes well beyond Keynes.

 

Janet Yellen has been interfering with the natural correction of the market for years.


Or, they are calling for additional taxes in order to pay down the debt that was run up in part to keep the economy moving.  In basic Economics, there are 3 major spenders, consumers, businesses and government.  If consumers and businesses stop spending, then the government needs to increase spending to keep the economy afloat.  So, when times are bad, spending increases, when times are good, the debt needs to be repaid.

 

Yellen controlling the money supply is more of a Monetarist economic action (Miltion Friedman) than a Keynesian one.  But the goal of controlling the money supply has been to stimulate the consumer economy by keeping interest rates low.  The main purpose has been to keep us out of a recession, not to stop corrections, which have happened.

 

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