Democratic socialism

[john258]

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@jimc91 wrote:

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@cat2015 wrote:

There's no need, jim, because you're engaged in a straw man argument.

Wikipedia clearly provides a definition that includes a capitalistic form of democratic socialism, but you ignore it. Please give us any examples--any--of a government that follows any other form of democratic socialism. Which government practices a form of democratic socialism that eliminates capitalism?

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Let me approach this in a different way.

Can you point to a large country that is governed by the Bernie Sanders' version of Democratic Socialism?

You seem to take issue with the WIKI article's description.  Is that accurate?

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Most of Europe has a system that includes most of what he talks about. The closets Nations are medium to small, and it has worked well for them. Now can you name one right wing government that has brought anything but misery to its people. Can you name some major world problems today that do not have a right start.

[jimc91]

Cat, can you point me to a country that illustrates Bernies's version?

[Quackers]

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rker321 wrote:

We are not educated enough to really understand what he is all about.

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True. And many are determined to stay that way. They really have no interest in finding out, it's all about squawking "soshulist!!!" in any conversation about him.

[cat2015]

You're right, rker. To my mind the biggest challenge Bernie faces is explaining to voters that he is not proposing to do away with capitalism. There are many voters like jim who simply assume that socialism and capitalism are incompatible.

Unfortunately, Bernie muddied the waters a bit at the debate when he answered that he was not a capitalist, and then went on to clarify that he didn't support the robber baron capitalism we practice in America. I knew what he meant, but a lot of Americans think he means small businesses on Main Street. He needs to clarify.

[cat2015]

No, jim, I don't take issue with the Wikipedia definition, except that it emphasizes the wrong definition. There are no democratic socialists states that have ever existed that practice the form of democratic socialism that is the primary definition. However, there are many, many countries that practice the Wikipedia's secondary definition (which you resolutely ignore). This secondary definition marries capitalism with a strong social safety net.

There are so many large countries practicing this form of democratic socialism that I'm surprised you have to ask---Germany, Great Britain, France, Italy, etc., etc. We also have a mixed economy, so I suppose one could say that we practice democratic socialism, as described in the secondary definition.

[rker321]

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@jimc91 wrote:

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Let me approach this in a different way.

Can you point to a large country that is governed by the Bernie Sanders' version of Democratic Socialism?

You seem to take issue with the WIKI article's description.  Is that accurate?

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I can provide you with a few videos that would most definitely provide you with what is and what is not Socialism  Perhaps you may need the instruction on that subject before you start naming Wiki as your source..

[jimc91]

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@cat2015 wrote:

There's no need, jim, because you're engaged in a straw man argument.

Wikipedia clearly provides a definition that includes a capitalistic form of democratic socialism, but you ignore it. Please give us any examples--any--of a government that follows any other form of democratic socialism. Which government practices a form of democratic socialism that eliminates capitalism?

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Let me approach this in a different way.

Can you point to a large country that is governed by the Bernie Sanders' version of Democratic Socialism?

You seem to take issue with the WIKI article's description.  Is that accurate?

[rker321]

Cat, now do you see what I mean by Bernie Sanders? This is very unfortunate, but I believe that the label of Socialist will be one thing that will not allow him to become President. I do understand what he means by Democratic Socialism. but I can assure you that over 80% of Americans don't. and that is sad but they will confuse his policies with Communism.
We are not educated enough to really understand what he is all about.

[cat2015]

There's no need, jim, because you're engaged in a straw man argument.

Wikipedia clearly provides a definition that includes a capitalistic form of democratic socialism, but you ignore it. Please give us any examples--any--of a government that follows any other form of democratic socialism. Which government practices a form of democratic socialism that eliminates capitalism?

You still haven't provided any quote from Bernie Sanders advocating government ownership of the means of production. Can't find one? Is that because it doesn't exist?

[intersan]

What sounds like democratic socialism today coming from Bernie Sanders is something that has created a Middle Class and helped many people to at least "make ends meet" while being in the working class. Today, according to the Republicans, any government involvement that includes SS, Medicare, health care, education, infrastructrue and public services is considered as socialism. 

We all know that there's part of non-working citizens who want a hand-out rather than education and job opportunities. However, Romney said in one of his speeches that 47% of people live off or get some kind of government assistance. Average people who vote Republican seem to forget that this includes them as well. They would like to privatize everything so that their corporate pals get to run health care, education, retirement savings and public services. 

These are programs that help to keep many people still functioning as productive citizens. In this way, they are healthy, work and pay taxes. The problem with Republicans are these massive tax cuts that never "trickled" down to the average American but made enormous profits for those at the top.