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Re: Democratic Debates Are A Pageant Of Potemkin Socialism

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@jimc91 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

The Democratic party has certainly gone to the "left" but is hardly espousing socialism. They are looking at the lack of health care in America and trying to emulate the ideas which are working in the rest of the world. They are looking at the inability of middle class families to pay for higher education and emulating ideas which are working in the rest of the world. They are looking at the impact of child and elder care on the ability of families to work and emulating ideas which are working in the rest of the world.

 

The Republican party has veered strongly to the right and cannot seem to get beyond the poliically correctness of their slogans.  I am waiting to see an idea from them which works beyond putting Obama in office and trying to take credit for his saving the economy from the LAST Republican. 


The Problem with Student Loan Forgiveness No Liberal DARES Talk About

 
Here’s an angle seldom addressed in the debate over forgiving mounting student debt; that it’s an entitlement for the upper class, not the poor.

 

Both Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders have released their own plans to cancel all or part of the nation’s collective $1.6 trillion in student loan debt. Sanders’ plan is an across the board cancellation, while Warren’s $640 billion plan would cap student loan forgiveness at $50,000 for those making less than $100,000 annually. Of course, $50,000 is far above the average student loan debt, so her plan is essentially the Sanders plan with safeguards so we aren’t bailing out doctors and lawyers.

 

Regardless, student loan forgiveness would mostly only subsidize those from families near the top of the income distribution.

 

An analysis of Warren’s plan (which is the more conservative of the two) from the Brooking’s Institute found that: “the top 20 percent of households would receive about 27% of all annual savings, and the top 40% about 66%. The bottom 20% of borrowers by income get only 4% of the savings. Borrowers with advanced degrees [Master’s degree or higher] represent 27% of borrowers, but would claim 37% of the annual benefit.”

 

 
 

Naturally since the Sanders plan would apply to everyone with debt, it would be even more lopsided in who it benefits. The Warren plan won’t let a doctor earning six figures with a six figure debt load off the hook, but Sanders does.

 

Bernie proposes paying for this plan with new taxes on Wall Street including a 0.5% tax on stock trades (50 cents per $100 of stock value), a 0.1% fee on bonds, and a 0.005% fee on derivatives. Ironically those on Wall Street would be best equipped to avoid such a tax. Sweden introduced an identical 0.5% tax on stock transactions in 1984, and later implemented smaller taxes on bonds and derivatives (which only garnered 5% of the revenue expected). Trading in futures fell 98%, the options market practically disappeared, and by 1990 half of all stock trading in Sweden had moved offshore to London. The tax was later repealed in 1991.

The Poor Already Have Programs in Place to Make College Cheap

It’s clear that the primary beneficiaries of loan forgiveness would be the upper class, but isn’t that simply because only wealthy families can afford to send their children to school in America? Obviously not for two reasons, the most obvious being that if that were the case we wouldn’t have a student debt crisis in the first place. Second, the Federal government already does have programs in place that make it possible for the poor to graduate with no debt from tuition.

 

The average Pell Grant a poor American student would be eligible for in 2017-2018 of $4,010 was higher than the average community college tuition that year ($3,347), and the maximum Pell Grant of $5,920 covered two-thirds of the average in-state college tuition that year ($9,970). None of this accounts for any low-income scholarships those students may also be eligible for.

Debt Elimination Wouldn’t Prevent Future Students From Accruing Debt

Debt forgiveness may wipe the slate clean for millions of students – but not for every subsequent student for future generations. Rather than address the root problem leading to student debt (skyrocketing tuition and campus living expenses), the Bernie and Warren plans only put a band aid on those currently injured with debt, but not the millions who will accrue debt after them.

Indeed, even tuition free college wouldn’t solve the student debt crisis, as the puzzling case of tuition-free-college existing alongside massive student debt burdens in Scandinavia proves.

 

While tuition is free, room and board are not. Paradoxically, offering free tuition seems to have incentivized students to be more likely to rack up debt by moving out early. While it’s becoming more common for American students to save money by living at home and attending a two-year community college, there’s less incentive to do so with “free” tuition.

 

  • In 2015 Swedes who borrowed to attend college had an average $17,266 in debt.
  • In Norway, the average student graduated with 280,000 NOK in debt in 2016. That amounts to roughly $32,000.
  • For contrast, the average student debt for someone graduating in America’s class of 2015 was approximately $30,100.

Furthermore, making college “free” risks greatly devaluing the worth of a college degree. An American college graduate earns 75% more than an American high school grad – but a Swedish college graduate earns only 9% more than a Swedish high school grad.

 

America’s higher education system needs major reforms to bring costs down – and both Sanders and Warren don’t even pretend to do that.


Here we go again. A far right person writes an opinion article and this is supposed to be truth. Go read some of the other articles he has written. Truth is something missing in all of them. Why are the far right paying so much attention to the 20 Dems. Well they might look at them but it is their leaders who are paying attention to them and then putting out to the followers what to say and what articles to use to support what they say. The leaders know any of the 20 are better than Dictator Trump who gets his orders from Putin as we just saw. Then Dictator Trump if off to S. Korea, and wants to meet his buddy from NK  for 2 minutes at the border to shake hands. The Dictators at work. Once closing thought do not ask a far right enabler to explain what they post in detail as they can not. Experts proved correct again.

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Re: Democratic Debates Are A Pageant Of Potemkin Socialism

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@ChasKy53 wrote:

The Right can use the scare word "Socialist" all they want but it doesn't take away from the fact that trump always was a thief, a bully, a friend and associate of the mob world, a liar and a draft dodger. He brought all of those traits with him into the White House. He has alienated all of our allies aas he buddies up to dictators and enemies of our nation. Saying "Socialist" makes none of that go away.


The right can proclaim all they want about how the left is going full out "socialist", which is a lie, as the current President praises the current world leaders who do nothing but meddle in our elections and use terrorism on their people....I posted a couple of videos explaining!  Really Republicans....you want to instill fear into people for "DEMOCRATIC socialism"?!

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Re: Democratic Debates Are A Pageant Of Potemkin Socialism

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Richva:  The gap between the rich and the middle class as been widening for decades and Republicans, the party of the rich, have no interest in determining why our economy is not working for so much of our population. 

 

 

I would disagree a bit here. They already know why our economy isn't working for so many. Their interest is in keeping their base believing that the fault lies with people who are worse off than they are and they are the party who will teach those lazy greedy buggers a lesson.

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Re: Democratic Debates Are A Pageant Of Potemkin Socialism

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@Laurie42010 wrote:

I find it quite odd that some find the word's'  DEMOCRATIC socialism so threatening as they follow a man who will side with Russian and North Korea's leaders?! They want us to become such an Isolationist country with leadership that lies and is corrupt and expect some to believe they have an understanding of today's environment???  I completely understand what the road to dictatorship is looking like.


 

 

Ahh, such "Dipolmacy" at the G20 Summit....

 

Guardian News - June 28, 2919 - "Trump tells Putin: don't meddle in the US presidential election"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WS2EaJrlXW

 

 

Daily Mail - June 28, 2019 - "Trump hangs out with Prince Mohammed bin Salman on G20 stage"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjlDUCpJ2-Q

 

Guardian News - June28, 2019 - "Donald Trump praises Mohammed bin Salman doing 'spectacular job'"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdq_JpaJ_MM

(my note: his priase for the Saudi's "fight on terror" at 1:38)

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Re: Democratic Debates Are A Pageant Of Potemkin Socialism

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The noticeable thing about the Democratic policy solutions is that they exist.  The Democrats recognize that America is less healthy, more in debt, and less educated than the rest of the world.  The gap between the rich and the middle class as been widening for decades and Republicans, the party of the rich, have no interest in determining why our economy is not working for so much of our population. 

 

The result?  Complete stagnation on the part of of Republicans while Democrats like Warren craft legislative proposals to help America become competitive again. 

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Re: Democratic Debates Are A Pageant Of Potemkin Socialism

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Message 6 of 25

@Richva wrote:

The Democratic party has certainly gone to the "left" but is hardly espousing socialism. They are looking at the lack of health care in America and trying to emulate the ideas which are working in the rest of the world. They are looking at the inability of middle class families to pay for higher education and emulating ideas which are working in the rest of the world. They are looking at the impact of child and elder care on the ability of families to work and emulating ideas which are working in the rest of the world.

 

The Republican party has veered strongly to the right and cannot seem to get beyond the poliically correctness of their slogans.  I am waiting to see an idea from them which works beyond putting Obama in office and trying to take credit for his saving the economy from the LAST Republican. 


The Problem with Student Loan Forgiveness No Liberal DARES Talk About

 
Here’s an angle seldom addressed in the debate over forgiving mounting student debt; that it’s an entitlement for the upper class, not the poor.

 

Both Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders have released their own plans to cancel all or part of the nation’s collective $1.6 trillion in student loan debt. Sanders’ plan is an across the board cancellation, while Warren’s $640 billion plan would cap student loan forgiveness at $50,000 for those making less than $100,000 annually. Of course, $50,000 is far above the average student loan debt, so her plan is essentially the Sanders plan with safeguards so we aren’t bailing out doctors and lawyers.

 

Regardless, student loan forgiveness would mostly only subsidize those from families near the top of the income distribution.

 

An analysis of Warren’s plan (which is the more conservative of the two) from the Brooking’s Institute found that: “the top 20 percent of households would receive about 27% of all annual savings, and the top 40% about 66%. The bottom 20% of borrowers by income get only 4% of the savings. Borrowers with advanced degrees [Master’s degree or higher] represent 27% of borrowers, but would claim 37% of the annual benefit.”

 

 
 

Naturally since the Sanders plan would apply to everyone with debt, it would be even more lopsided in who it benefits. The Warren plan won’t let a doctor earning six figures with a six figure debt load off the hook, but Sanders does.

 

Bernie proposes paying for this plan with new taxes on Wall Street including a 0.5% tax on stock trades (50 cents per $100 of stock value), a 0.1% fee on bonds, and a 0.005% fee on derivatives. Ironically those on Wall Street would be best equipped to avoid such a tax. Sweden introduced an identical 0.5% tax on stock transactions in 1984, and later implemented smaller taxes on bonds and derivatives (which only garnered 5% of the revenue expected). Trading in futures fell 98%, the options market practically disappeared, and by 1990 half of all stock trading in Sweden had moved offshore to London. The tax was later repealed in 1991.

The Poor Already Have Programs in Place to Make College Cheap

It’s clear that the primary beneficiaries of loan forgiveness would be the upper class, but isn’t that simply because only wealthy families can afford to send their children to school in America? Obviously not for two reasons, the most obvious being that if that were the case we wouldn’t have a student debt crisis in the first place. Second, the Federal government already does have programs in place that make it possible for the poor to graduate with no debt from tuition.

 

The average Pell Grant a poor American student would be eligible for in 2017-2018 of $4,010 was higher than the average community college tuition that year ($3,347), and the maximum Pell Grant of $5,920 covered two-thirds of the average in-state college tuition that year ($9,970). None of this accounts for any low-income scholarships those students may also be eligible for.

Debt Elimination Wouldn’t Prevent Future Students From Accruing Debt

Debt forgiveness may wipe the slate clean for millions of students – but not for every subsequent student for future generations. Rather than address the root problem leading to student debt (skyrocketing tuition and campus living expenses), the Bernie and Warren plans only put a band aid on those currently injured with debt, but not the millions who will accrue debt after them.

Indeed, even tuition free college wouldn’t solve the student debt crisis, as the puzzling case of tuition-free-college existing alongside massive student debt burdens in Scandinavia proves.

 

While tuition is free, room and board are not. Paradoxically, offering free tuition seems to have incentivized students to be more likely to rack up debt by moving out early. While it’s becoming more common for American students to save money by living at home and attending a two-year community college, there’s less incentive to do so with “free” tuition.

 

  • In 2015 Swedes who borrowed to attend college had an average $17,266 in debt.
  • In Norway, the average student graduated with 280,000 NOK in debt in 2016. That amounts to roughly $32,000.
  • For contrast, the average student debt for someone graduating in America’s class of 2015 was approximately $30,100.

Furthermore, making college “free” risks greatly devaluing the worth of a college degree. An American college graduate earns 75% more than an American high school grad – but a Swedish college graduate earns only 9% more than a Swedish high school grad.

 

America’s higher education system needs major reforms to bring costs down – and both Sanders and Warren don’t even pretend to do that.

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Re: Democratic Debates Are A Pageant Of Potemkin Socialism

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Message 7 of 25

The Democratic party has certainly gone to the "left" but is hardly espousing socialism. They are looking at the lack of health care in America and trying to emulate the ideas which are working in the rest of the world. They are looking at the inability of middle class families to pay for higher education and emulating ideas which are working in the rest of the world. They are looking at the impact of child and elder care on the ability of families to work and emulating ideas which are working in the rest of the world.

 

The Republican party has veered strongly to the right and cannot seem to get beyond the poliically correctness of their slogans.  I am waiting to see an idea from them which works beyond putting Obama in office and trying to take credit for his saving the economy from the LAST Republican. 

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Re: Democratic Debates Are A Pageant Of Potemkin Socialism

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@jimc91 wrote:

Screen Shot 2019-06-29 at 6.36.56 AM.png

 

 

The Volvo Group today announced plans to invest nearly $400 million over six years to upgrade the New River Valley, Virginia plant that produces all Volvo trucks sold in North America.  The upgrades include expansion of the industrial footprint and installation of a variety of state-of-the-art equipment that will improve plant efficiency and deliver even higher product quality for customers.

 

“The outstanding product line currently produced at NRV has strongly positioned Volvo Trucks for the future,” said Peter Voorhoeve, President of Volvo Trucks North America. “This investment is another sign of our confidence in that future, and will help us prepare for even more exciting products – powered by both diesel and electric drivetrains – in the coming years.”

 

Virginia Governor Ralph Northam joined company and local officials to announce the expansion, which will be eligible for a Virginia Major Employment and Investment grant of up to $16.5 million and other incentives.  Virginia’s Pulaski County will support the project by granting Volvo 222 acres of adjacent property to expand the campus, and providing $500,000  toward site improvements.  In addition to its financial investment, Volvo announced plans to create 777 new jobs at the facility over the next six years.

 

Major components of the investment include a new 350,000-square-foot building that will ultimately house truck cab welding operations; an expansion of the existing plant to allow for further improvements to the facility’s paint operations and overall material/production flow; and a variety of  equipment upgrades, including installation of several state-of-the-art dynamometers for vehicle testing.

 

“This investment will give our employees the tools they need to continue providing our customers the highest quality products,” said Franky Marchand, Vice President and General Manager of the NRV plant.  “We’re very grateful to the Commonwealth of Virginia, Pulaski County, and the citizens in this community for their continued support of our business and our people. Creating more value-added processes through these investments is good for our employees, our plant and our region.”

 

NRV-Aerial_resized

 

CAPTION: The Volvo Group today announced plans to invest nearly $400 million over six years to upgrade the New River Valley, Virginia plant that produces all Volvo Trucks sold in North America. 

Volvo Trucks provides complete transport solutions for professional and demanding customers, offering a full range of medium to heavy duty trucks. Customer support is secured via a global network of 2,100 dealers and workshops in more than 130 countries. Volvo trucks are assembled in 15 countries across the globe. In 2018, more than 127,000 Volvo trucks were delivered worldwide. Volvo Trucks is part of Volvo Group, one of the world’s leading manufacturers of trucks, buses, construction equipment and marine and industrial engines. The Group also provides complete solutions for financing and service. Volvo Trucks´ work is based on the core values of quality, safety and environmental care.

 

https://www.volvotrucks.us/news-and-stories/press-releases/2019/june/nrv-plant-investment-to-boost-q...

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Thanks Mr. President!

 

 

 

 


So tell me again about all the good work he has done for the hog and grain farmers who USED to have markets in China.  I understand Brazil is very happy about the arrangement.  Oh, and be sure to have someone read the above article to Trump. I am sure he will be pleased. 

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Re: Democratic Debates Are A Pageant Of Potemkin Socialism

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The Right can use the scare word "Socialist" all they want but it doesn't take away from the fact that trump always was a thief, a bully, a friend and associate of the mob world, a liar and a draft dodger. He brought all of those traits with him into the White House. He has alienated all of our allies aas he buddies up to dictators and enemies of our nation. Saying "Socialist" makes none of that go away.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Democratic Debates Are A Pageant Of Potemkin Socialism

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Message 10 of 25

Screen Shot 2019-06-29 at 6.36.56 AM.png

 

 

The Volvo Group today announced plans to invest nearly $400 million over six years to upgrade the New River Valley, Virginia plant that produces all Volvo trucks sold in North America.  The upgrades include expansion of the industrial footprint and installation of a variety of state-of-the-art equipment that will improve plant efficiency and deliver even higher product quality for customers.

 

“The outstanding product line currently produced at NRV has strongly positioned Volvo Trucks for the future,” said Peter Voorhoeve, President of Volvo Trucks North America. “This investment is another sign of our confidence in that future, and will help us prepare for even more exciting products – powered by both diesel and electric drivetrains – in the coming years.”

 

Virginia Governor Ralph Northam joined company and local officials to announce the expansion, which will be eligible for a Virginia Major Employment and Investment grant of up to $16.5 million and other incentives.  Virginia’s Pulaski County will support the project by granting Volvo 222 acres of adjacent property to expand the campus, and providing $500,000  toward site improvements.  In addition to its financial investment, Volvo announced plans to create 777 new jobs at the facility over the next six years.

 

Major components of the investment include a new 350,000-square-foot building that will ultimately house truck cab welding operations; an expansion of the existing plant to allow for further improvements to the facility’s paint operations and overall material/production flow; and a variety of  equipment upgrades, including installation of several state-of-the-art dynamometers for vehicle testing.

 

“This investment will give our employees the tools they need to continue providing our customers the highest quality products,” said Franky Marchand, Vice President and General Manager of the NRV plant.  “We’re very grateful to the Commonwealth of Virginia, Pulaski County, and the citizens in this community for their continued support of our business and our people. Creating more value-added processes through these investments is good for our employees, our plant and our region.”

 

NRV-Aerial_resized

 

CAPTION: The Volvo Group today announced plans to invest nearly $400 million over six years to upgrade the New River Valley, Virginia plant that produces all Volvo Trucks sold in North America. 

Volvo Trucks provides complete transport solutions for professional and demanding customers, offering a full range of medium to heavy duty trucks. Customer support is secured via a global network of 2,100 dealers and workshops in more than 130 countries. Volvo trucks are assembled in 15 countries across the globe. In 2018, more than 127,000 Volvo trucks were delivered worldwide. Volvo Trucks is part of Volvo Group, one of the world’s leading manufacturers of trucks, buses, construction equipment and marine and industrial engines. The Group also provides complete solutions for financing and service. Volvo Trucks´ work is based on the core values of quality, safety and environmental care.

 

https://www.volvotrucks.us/news-and-stories/press-releases/2019/june/nrv-plant-investment-to-boost-q...

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Thanks Mr. President!

 

 

 

 

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