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Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

A California county superior court judge has ruled in favor of an anti-gay Christian baker who refused to sell a same-sex couple a custom wedding cake, citing her religious beliefs. Last August Cathy Miller, the owner of Tastries bakery told a couple she would not bake them a cake and referred them to another baker.

 

. . . . . In December Judge Lampe refused to grant California a temporary restraining order barring Miller from selling any item to a different-sex couple she would not sell to a same-sex couple.

 

"The difference here is that the cake is not yet baked," Judge Lampe wrote in his decision Monday. "The state is not petitioning the court to order defendants to sell a cake. The state asks this court to compel Miller to use her talents to design and create a cake she has not yet conceived with the knowledge that her work will be displayed in celebration of a marital union her religion forbids. For this court to force such compliance would do violence to the essentials of Free Speech guaranteed under the First Amendment."

 

New Civil Rights Movement - Pre-Made Wedding Cakes vs Custom Cakes for Same Sex Couple Couples

 

read more at the link -

 

Guess the SCOTUS needs to hurry with their decision - expected in June.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:




I saw more than a few people fired for taking off their sabbath. the company line was..we dont recognize anyones religious holidays. so off the work you go.


Years ago had a friend that worked for the Post Office.  He insisted on taking Saturday off for the Sabbath.  The Post Master said no.  The guy was put on probation as it was understood that the Post Office had deliveries on Saturday when he was employed.  He probably was eventually terminated.

 

In those types of jobs requiring work on Saturday or Sundays it should have been understood that they would or might be required to work.

 

This has nothing to do with the baker's situation.


Of course it relates to the baker's situation. If you open a business, you have to serve all equally.  You know the rules going in so complaining that serving gays, blacks, Hispanics, women, or handicapped violates your religious sensitivities is bogus.  

 

Great to say this violates your religion but aren't you really cherry picking your verses. I had this post before. 

 

Tucked away deeply in the Bible where nobody thinks to look is a commandment against killing people. You know anybody who was in the service and may have violated that Commandment? 

 

Have you stoned anyone lately who got a divorce and remarried for coveting? 

 

Cherry picking!!

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@Richva wrote:


Of course it relates to the baker's situation. If you open a business, you have to serve all equally.  You know the rules going in so complaining that serving gays, blacks, Hispanics, women, or handicapped violates your religious sensitivities is bogus.  

 

Great to say this violates your religion but aren't you really cherry picking your verses. I had this post before. 

 

Tucked away deeply in the Bible where nobody thinks to look is a commandment against killing people. You know anybody who was in the service and may have violated that Commandment? 

 



What sort of rules are you referencing that says you have to serve everyone? 

 

And what makes you get off on the topic of killing people?  Are you saying that a cop that kills someone in the line of duty?  What about a person in the military that kills an enemy?  Are you saying that you don't thank a military member or vet for their service?  Shame.

 

And what verses are you referring to about killing people and how did that enter into a topic about wedding cakes?

 

You're talking around in circles here.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

 

And what makes you get off on the topic of killing people?  Are you saying that a cop that kills someone in the line of duty?  What about a person in the military that kills an enemy?  Are you saying that you don't thank a military member or vet for their service?  Shame.

 

And what verses are you referring to about killing people and how did that enter into a topic about wedding cakes?

 

You're talking around in circles here.


What sort of rules are you referencing that says you have to serve everyone? 

Tex, you were in the military. What was your ultimate job in life?  To kill someone or to train and equip so you could kill someone when ordered. THAT is a commandment broken and yet, the religious folks make all kinds of reasons it does not apply. 

 

I gave you the Exodus verse about putting those who work on the Sabbath to death. 

 

Rule to serve everyone. 

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@Richva wrote:

Tex, you were in the military. What was your ultimate job in life?  To kill someone or to train and equip so you could kill someone when ordered. THAT is a commandment broken and yet, the religious folks make all kinds of reasons it does not apply. 

 

I gave you the Exodus verse about putting those who work on the Sabbath to death. 

 

 


My ultimate job was to make the military a career and to retire with a pension and benefits.   Were you ever in the military?  If so, why hold me accountable for my service?  If not, then perhaps you hold those who served our nation accountable while you enjoy the benefits?  Does that mean you have something against our military?

 

You keep bringing up passages from the Old Testament even knowing it was Jewish law.  Can you find like passages in the New Testament?

 

 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Loulit wrote:


 

 

 


Has the religious freedom part of the Constitution been done away with?  The government is forbidden to pass any law regarding religion.  According to your post they have the right to forbid anyone from practicing their religion.  What next, are they going to adopt the Roman practice of burning Christians at the stake?


It depends on what you want your  government to be involved in  I am  a practicing Catholic  and I can tell you that I feel that my religion should not exercise their power of the faith into social issues.
I would be extremely upset if  the Catholic Pope would issue  a  rule in which they would actually as Catholic enforce  a social issue.

I truly believe in the separation of State and Religion.
They have no business interfering in each other. 
There are many things in other religions that I don't believe or even agree with. Therefore I wouldn't want to see any of those religions imposing their beliefs  on me.
But if you don't believe in the separation or Religion and State, then in that case of course you will not agree with any law that mixes religion and social laws.

 

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@Roxanna35 wrote:


 I can tell you that I feel that my religion should not exercise their power of the faith into social issues.

I would be extremely upset if  the Catholic Pope would issue  a  rule in which they would actually as Catholic enforce  a social issue.

 

 


Are you saying that a person should not extend their religious beliefs into their everyday lives, including business dealings?  The New Testament itself dictates as to how to conduct one's faith in dealing with others.  These bakers had no problem with regular cakes or sweets...or in selling them to anyone..their objection was in selling or designing a cake celebrating a gay wedding.

 

Would these laws dictate a church performing a gay wedding if it was against their beliefs. 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:


 I can tell you that I feel that my religion should not exercise their power of the faith into social issues.

I would be extremely upset if  the Catholic Pope would issue  a  rule in which they would actually as Catholic enforce  a social issue.

 

 


Are you saying that a person should not extend their religious beliefs into their everyday lives, including business dealings?  The New Testament itself dictates as to how to conduct one's faith in dealing with others.  These bakers had no problem with regular cakes or sweets...or in selling them to anyone..their objection was in selling or designing a cake celebrating a gay wedding.

 

Would these laws dictate a church performing a gay wedding if it was against their beliefs. 


NOPE .....You're conflating a church with a public business.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:


 I can tell you that I feel that my religion should not exercise their power of the faith into social issues.

I would be extremely upset if  the Catholic Pope would issue  a  rule in which they would actually as Catholic enforce  a social issue.

 

 


Are you saying that a person should not extend their religious beliefs into their everyday lives, including business dealings?  The New Testament itself dictates as to how to conduct one's faith in dealing with others.  These bakers had no problem with regular cakes or sweets...or in selling them to anyone..their objection was in selling or designing a cake celebrating a gay wedding.

 

Would these laws dictate a church performing a gay wedding if it was against their beliefs. 


The Constitutionally defined secular Law of the Land - is separated by a wall - from the "law of the bible" and "god's law".

 

Neither is permitted to infringe upon the other - otherwise - it would become mandatory for christian congregations to admit satanists and their beliefs, wouldn't it?

 

 

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@alferdpacker

 

You are talking around in circles and not addressing the case here.  This concerns a person's religious beliefs, just like the previous case that is similar to the one before the Supreme Court.  It is against her religious beliefs even as the owner of the bakery.  She shouldn't lose her right to religious beliefs just because she has established a business.  Since it is, she has an agreement with a competitor that would accomodate gay wedding cakes.

 

Your attempts at legalese might be ok in a legal atmosphere but is just mumbo jumbo here.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@alferdpacker

 

You are talking around in circles and not addressing the case here.  This concerns a person's religious beliefs, just like the previous case that is similar to the one before the Supreme Court.  It is against her religious beliefs even as the owner of the bakery.  She shouldn't lose her right to religious beliefs just because she has established a business.  Since it is, she has an agreement with a competitor that would accomodate gay wedding cakes.

 

Your attempts at legalese might be ok in a legal atmosphere but is just mumbo jumbo here.


True - some comprehend the Constitution and it's implications - some don't.

 

Some believe that a rainbow is a sign that god is having gay sex - is there any truth to that belief?

 

 

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@alferdpacker wrote:



True - some comprehend the Constitution and it's implications - some don't.

 

 


Agree.  Apparently the judge in this case realized that the cake hadn't been created, but the lady was being sued in an attempt to perform her artistry in favor of something she didn't believe in.  What if she had created two demons as an illustration of her beliefs regarding the occasion?  That would be perfectly legitimate as it reflected her creative idea.

 

The law can't force a person to be creative contrary to their beliefs.  But apparently there are those who have no regard that others have religious beliefs where they don't.  There are examples throughout history beginning with the crucifixtion of Christ; the deaths of Christians in Rome for not following the laws requiring them to worship their gods, up through these 'cake' convictions. 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:



True - some comprehend the Constitution and it's implications - some don't.

 

 


Agree.  Apparently the judge in this case realized that the cake hadn't been created, but the lady was being sued in an attempt to perform her artistry in favor of something she didn't believe in.  What if she had created two demons as an illustration of her beliefs regarding the occasion?  That would be perfectly legitimate as it reflected her creative idea.

 

The law can't force a person to be creative contrary to their beliefs.  But apparently there are those who have no regard that others have religious beliefs where they don't.  There are examples throughout history beginning with the crucifixtion of Christ; the deaths of Christians in Rome for not following the laws requiring them to worship their gods, up through these 'cake' convictions. 

 

But now there's a Constitution that separates church and state.

 

It appears that both the United States Constitution as well as the Coloroado Constitution supports and validates the law against disrimination that the baker violated.

 

Religious fairy tales are - of course - separated from our secular government and it's secular laws - aren't they?

 

Remember the oath you swore when you joined the armed forces?

 

Never had anything to do with "god's law", did it?

 

Of course an oath is binding for one's entire lifetime, isn't it?

 

 

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@Loulit wrote:

@phyllisc6781 wrote:

@Loulit wrote:

What if it was just someone he didn't like. Say a person whose kid had beaten up his kid at school. Could he say, "No, I'm not baking for you. Get the h** l out of my store."  I would hope he could.

 

In the case of the same-sex couple the problem is one that pits the rights of the individual's religious freedom and freedom of speech, against the rights of a group which cannot be legally discriminated against.

 

The baker contends that a custom wedding cake celebrating a gay marriage is a work of art. The government cannot force a painter to paint, a singer to sing, a sculptor to sculpt.  If a gay couple wants a wedding band and that band does not want to perform for a same sex marriage reception, can the government make them take the stage? I sure hope not.

 

I'm for gay marriage. I'm for gay couples adopting kids. Gay married couples are entitled to all the rights an employer grants to straight couples, such as the spouse of the employee being covered by company health insurance.

 

But if the business owner finds himself morally unable to create for something his religion forbids, he should be able to say no. It's his business, his store. Maybe the best thing for the gay couple to do is walk down the street to the next bakery. If the gay couple want to protest and boycott the bakery that wouldn't serve them, they can. 

 

I usually come down on the side of the individual. In this case, the baker; a small business owner trying to stand up for what he believes. I think what he believes is ignorant and wrong -- but I wouldn't take away his right to believe it. The ACLU is representing the gay couple. I was a big fan of the ACLU until United Citizens v. Federal Elections Commission. They picked the wrong side on that one and I cancelled my membership. I was steamin'. I think the ACLU is on the wrong side again.

 

 


This is not a simple your kid hit mine. This is discrimination. This is a business owner who chose to ignore the laws against discrimination. If the owners are open for business, they are open for business to everyone. Good for ACLU! Very bad ruling on part of judge who over turned original order. A review of non-discrimination statutes might be in order. 

It is people like these bakers who make me wonder what the heck is wrong with people. I own a small business myself, and not only would I never decide non-discrimination laws didn’t apply to me, I would never be so disgustingly narcissistic or ignorant as to think I shouldn’t cater to someone due to  their choice of a mate. 

I liked the idea of the poster who said people should boycott the business until the bigoted and ignorant owners go out of business. 

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!


The gay couple has the law on their side and will most likely win the case. Then we'll live in a country where the government can tell a business owner to betray his religous principles or close his doors.

 

Great.


If you believe that God created man, you know God created gays—(1 in every ten people are born homosexual—look it up), so in what REAL religion is it ok to turn one's back on God’s creations?

 Using religion as an excuse to be a bigot is no more than an easy out to discriminate against that which is not understood.

Another tidbot of info.—homosexuality is found in all species—did God make a huge mistake? Remember that the Bible was written by man, given free will by God. When the majority of people are heterosexual, of course homosexual behavior as seen as “strange,” and, of course, that is how it was interpreted by the men—NOT GOD—who wrote the Book.

But,  there was no science, nothing available to help them understand that this is a common—and natural occurrence.

 

 Using religion as an excuse to be ignorant and bigoted is actually something I think would cause God great pain. Religion is no excuse to condemn others for something that happens frequently in nature. God made no mistake.

 

And again,  if you are in a business open to the public,  you serve the public. If you want to practice your religion, go to church. If you can’t do both, go find another occupation. 

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!

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@phyllisc6781 wrote:

@Loulit wrote:

@phyllisc6781 wrote:

@Loulit wrote:

What if it was just someone he didn't like. Say a person whose kid had beaten up his kid at school. Could he say, "No, I'm not baking for you. Get the h** l out of my store."  I would hope he could.

 

In the case of the same-sex couple the problem is one that pits the rights of the individual's religious freedom and freedom of speech, against the rights of a group which cannot be legally discriminated against.

 

The baker contends that a custom wedding cake celebrating a gay marriage is a work of art. The government cannot force a painter to paint, a singer to sing, a sculptor to sculpt.  If a gay couple wants a wedding band and that band does not want to perform for a same sex marriage reception, can the government make them take the stage? I sure hope not.

 

I'm for gay marriage. I'm for gay couples adopting kids. Gay married couples are entitled to all the rights an employer grants to straight couples, such as the spouse of the employee being covered by company health insurance.

 

But if the business owner finds himself morally unable to create for something his religion forbids, he should be able to say no. It's his business, his store. Maybe the best thing for the gay couple to do is walk down the street to the next bakery. If the gay couple want to protest and boycott the bakery that wouldn't serve them, they can. 

 

I usually come down on the side of the individual. In this case, the baker; a small business owner trying to stand up for what he believes. I think what he believes is ignorant and wrong -- but I wouldn't take away his right to believe it. The ACLU is representing the gay couple. I was a big fan of the ACLU until United Citizens v. Federal Elections Commission. They picked the wrong side on that one and I cancelled my membership. I was steamin'. I think the ACLU is on the wrong side again.

 

 


This is not a simple your kid hit mine. This is discrimination. This is a business owner who chose to ignore the laws against discrimination. If the owners are open for business, they are open for business to everyone. Good for ACLU! Very bad ruling on part of judge who over turned original order. A review of non-discrimination statutes might be in order. 

It is people like these bakers who make me wonder what the heck is wrong with people. I own a small business myself, and not only would I never decide non-discrimination laws didn’t apply to me, I would never be so disgustingly narcissistic or ignorant as to think I shouldn’t cater to someone due to  their choice of a mate. 

I liked the idea of the poster who said people should boycott the business until the bigoted and ignorant owners go out of business. 

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!


The gay couple has the law on their side and will most likely win the case. Then we'll live in a country where the government can tell a business owner to betray his religous principles or close his doors.

 

Great.


If you believe that God created man, you know God created gays—(1 in every ten people are born homosexual—look it up), so in what REAL religion is it ok to turn one's back on God’s creations?

 Using religion as an excuse to be a bigot is no more than an easy out to discriminate against that which is not understood.

Another tidbot of info.—homosexuality is found in all species—did God make a huge mistake? Remember that the Bible was written by man, given free will by God. When the majority of people are heterosexual, of course homosexual behavior as seen as “strange,” and, of course, that is how it was interpreted by the men—NOT GOD—who wrote the Book.

But,  there was no science, nothing available to help them understand that this is a common—and natural occurrence.

 

 Using religion as an excuse to be ignorant and bigoted is actually something I think would cause God great pain. Religion is no excuse to condemn others for something that happens frequently in nature. God made no mistake.

 

And again,  if you are in a business open to the public,  you serve the public. If you want to practice your religion, go to church. If you can’t do both, go find another occupation. 

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!


 

 

You know it's funny, Phyllisc6781,

 

You mock and rail against this government severely, until you want the government to enforce a law you agree with.  And everything about homosexuality in your post has been known by anyone with sense for, I dunno, 2 decades, something like that. But I don't understand why the baker's position must be an excuse to discriminate against gays rather than a sacred, sincerely treasured, religious and moral belief.

Me? I'm an atheist. Richard Dawkins is one of my heroes. As an atheist, it would be crazy to think the government could make attend church on Sundays or whatever sabbath.  But the government telling a Christian he must create something to help celebrate what the Bible states is unacceptable, is wrong. The baker discriminating against the gay couple is equally wrong.

 

As I said, the couple have the law on their side and will win, I think. But it makes me unhappy to give the government that power.  I'd rather the court ruled for the baker and for gays to call for a boycott and march up and down in front of the bakery protesting. 

 

You know, Phyllisc6781, I enjoy your rants as much as the next guy, but save them for someone who merits them. I came to my opinion after much consideration, some research, and realizing that no matter who wins here, I was not going to be happy.

 

Not everything is black and white, Sometimes we have to consider the baker's point of view as sincere and important to the way he lives his life. I made a very tough call. It could absolutely be the wrong call, I know.  But I don't deserve your post that makes me sound like I'm anti-gay and know nothing about homosexuality.  What made you reply to my post that way, I don't understand. I'm not anti-gay, nor am I ignorant about the many aspects of homosexuality; I just have a different opinion at which I arrived after making some difficult choices. So take a breath, get a grip, and maybe you'll see you read into that post opinions that aren't there.

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@GailL1 wrote:

A California county superior court judge has ruled in favor of an anti-gay Christian baker who refused to sell a same-sex couple a custom wedding cake, citing her religious beliefs. Last August Cathy Miller, the owner of Tastries bakery told a couple she would not bake them a cake and referred them to another baker.

 

. . . . . In December Judge Lampe refused to grant California a temporary restraining order barring Miller from selling any item to a different-sex couple she would not sell to a same-sex couple.

 

"The difference here is that the cake is not yet baked," Judge Lampe wrote in his decision Monday. "The state is not petitioning the court to order defendants to sell a cake. The state asks this court to compel Miller to use her talents to design and create a cake she has not yet conceived with the knowledge that her work will be displayed in celebration of a marital union her religion forbids. For this court to force such compliance would do violence to the essentials of Free Speech guaranteed under the First Amendment."

 

New Civil Rights Movement - Pre-Made Wedding Cakes vs Custom Cakes for Same Sex Couple Couples

 

read more at the link -

 

Guess the SCOTUS needs to hurry with their decision - expected in June.


 Yes, SCOTUS will have to decide this, since it’s clear that this judge has forgotten what civil rights and equality is all about. 

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!

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@GailL1 wrote:

A California county superior court judge has ruled in favor of an anti-gay Christian baker who refused to sell a same-sex couple a custom wedding cake, citing her religious beliefs.


This appears to be another case of where the baker and her religious beliefs was targeted by either the couple or liberal organizations.  She did make provisions for them and others in obtaining a wedding cake through an agreement with another baker to handle these type of wedding cakes.

 

One could google 'kern county wedding cake' and come up with multiple links about this.

 

This is an illustration of attacking religious beliefs with political correctness going overboard.  How many more socialist laws are going to be passed taking away the individual freedoms that made this country great?  I believe in equal rights, but take away the rights of some to give to others?

 

 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@GailL1 wrote:

A California county superior court judge has ruled in favor of an anti-gay Christian baker who refused to sell a same-sex couple a custom wedding cake, citing her religious beliefs.


This appears to be another case of where the baker and her religious beliefs was targeted by either the couple or liberal organizations.  She did make provisions for them and others in obtaining a wedding cake through an agreement with another baker to handle these type of wedding cakes.

 

One could google 'kern county wedding cake' and come up with multiple links about this.

 

This is an illustration of attacking religious beliefs with political correctness going overboard.  How many more socialist laws are going to be passed taking away the individual freedoms that made this country great?  I believe in equal rights, but take away the rights of some to give to others?

 

 


I have yet to determine how religious beliefs come into this. Plus, if they are that flexible in court, my new religion requires that I stone Christians and ex wives. 

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@Richva wrote:



I have yet to determine how religious beliefs come into this.


Of course when one can't respect that there are some who take their religous beliefs seriously, especially those with a deep faith in New Testament teachings.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Richva wrote:



I have yet to determine how religious beliefs come into this.


Of course when one can't respect that there are some who take their religous beliefs seriously, especially those with a deep faith in New Testament teachings.


There is NOTHING in "New Testament teachings" mandating discrimination against gay people Tex!

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@myexper wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Richva wrote:



I have yet to determine how religious beliefs come into this.


Of course when one can't respect that there are some who take their religous beliefs seriously, especially those with a deep faith in New Testament teachings.


There is NOTHING in "New Testament teachings" mandating discrimination against gay people Tex!


Of course - that's why those who discriminate against homosexuals are ever so much lower in the sight of god - and their fellow men - than the homosexuals they discriminate against...

 

No, I don't discriminate against those who are very vocal about their christianity and moral character, foaming-at-the-mouth fundamentalists, and extreme fringe crackpot evangelicals - I make certain the only thing I allow any of them access to is the time of day...

 

I do, however, keep in mind Ralph Waldo Emerson's aphorism - "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons." - and - as a result of decades of experience with them - I have learned to be exremely cautious when dealing with them and have learned not to trust any very vocal fundamentalist/evangelical any more than I would a recognized thief, adulterer/adulteress, or other scam artist...

 

Once burned, twice shy as the saying goes...

 

 

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@alferdpacker wrote:

 



Of course - that's why those who discriminate against homosexuals are so much lower in the sight of god - and their fellow men - than the homosexuals they discriminate against...

 

 

 

 


 So you are now speaking for God?  And you have in the past been proclaiming that you don't believe in Him?


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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

 



Of course - that's why those who discriminate against homosexuals are so much lower in the sight of god - and their fellow men - than the homosexuals they discriminate against...

 

 

 

 


 So you are now speaking for God?  And you have in the past been proclaiming that you don't believe in Him?



Yep - not necessary to bow, you are allowed to address me as "Sir"...

 

God got disgusted with liddle donnie and She granted me - and others - the authority...

 

 

I NEVER said or posted that I am - or ever was an athiest.

 

The literate and educated know that there's quite a difference between an agnostic and/or a person who believes that organized religion is both wrong and corrupt - and an atheist.

 

All religions come from the same single source - none of them are as much as ten percent correct and all are at least 90 percent incorrect.

 

All the writings are by flawed and fallible humans - divine inspiration is a cool theory - but all the internal contradictions, errors, and blatantly obvious flaws and things that have been proved  to be completely untrue make most of each religion's claims about 90 percent bogus.

 

Vaya con huevos

 

 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Richva wrote:



I have yet to determine how religious beliefs come into this.


Of course when one can't respect that there are some who take their religous beliefs seriously, especially those with a deep faith in New Testament teachings.


Where in the New Testament does it say not to bake a wedding cake for any kind of couple?


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@ChasKy53 wrote:


Where in the New Testament dois is say not to bake a wedding cake for any kind of couple?


Your post brings to mind the question from the Sadducees about marriage designed to trick Jesus as related in the New Testament.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:


Where in the New Testament does it say not to bake a wedding cake for any kind of couple?


Your post brings to mind the question from the Sadducees about marriage designed to trick Jesus as related in the New Testament.


Paranoid or something? Or some attempt at an insult?  No trick, a serious question. What scripture do you refer to that means it would be wrong to make and sell a wedding cake to a gay couple?


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@ChasKy53 wrote:


What scripture do you refer to that means it would be wrong to make and sell a wedding cake to a gay couple?


Wedding cakes as such isn't the issue, it is violating one's beliefs in condoning gay conduct which is against New Testament teachings.  

 

But apparently you are ignoring that the lady was kind enough to have made arrangements for a competitor design and make the cake.  But apparently the cake wasn't the issue but forcing the particular baker to design and make the cake.

 

I gather that you are not interested in the cake but the fact that the baker herself refused to design, create and make the cake.  This comes across as an issue of some wanting their way regardless of how anyone else feels or who is hurt.  The lady was concerned about the couple by making arrangements with a competitor.

 

 

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@ChasKy53 wrote:



Paranoid or something? Or some attempt at an insult?  No trick, a serious question. What scripture do you refer to that means it would be wrong to make and sell a wedding cake to a gay couple?


Apparently you didn't read the original article that was referenced.  It is the lady's religious beliefs about condoning gay marriages.  And yes I'm sure you knew that very well.

 

But I'm not avoiding the question, and my guess is that you are not that familiar with the scriptural basis for her beliefs, or even the basis for being a Christian.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:



Paranoid or something? Or some attempt at an insult?  No trick, a serious question. What scripture do you refer to that means it would be wrong to make and sell a wedding cake to a gay couple?


Apparently you didn't read the original article that was referenced.  It is the lady's religious beliefs about condoning gay marriages.  And yes I'm sure you knew that very well.

 

But I'm not avoiding the question, and my guess is that you are not that familiar with the scriptural basis for her beliefs, or even the basis for being a Christian.


Selling a wedding cake to a gay or straight couple is not "condoning" what they do. It is simply selling them a wedding cake.

 

To the contrary, I am most likely just as familiar with the scriptures as you are. Someone disagreeing with you does not mean they are not as familiar. I asked the question because you could have been referencing any of quite a few scriptures that could be erroneously interpreted to justify discriminating against someone because of a religious belief. Yes you did "avoid the question" but ..... you interpreted a meaning from scriptures in Romans, as you posted to someone else. I addressed that interpretation in my reply to that posting.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@ChasKy53 wrote:



Selling a wedding cake to a gay or straight couple is not "condoning" what they do. It is simply selling them a wedding cake.

 

To the contrary, I am most likely just as familiar with the scriptures as you are. Someone disagreeing with you does not mean they are not as familiar. I asked the question because you could have been referencing any of quite a few scriptures that could be erroneously interpreted to justify discriminating against someone because of a religious belief. Yes you did "avoid the question" but ..... you interpreted a meaning from scriptures in Romans, as you posted to someone else. I addressed that interpretation in my reply to that posting.


So if you sold someone a gun knowing that it would be used to commit a crime wouldn't necessarily mean you were condoning the crime?

 

And what passages in Romans did I quote?  So are you 'interpreting' my posts or did you take them to mean what I posted?  I don't think that the passages are ambiguous in what they say.  Of course you are interpreting them the way you want.  What is to be interpreted when it condemns certain actions?  The meaning is clear as written.

 

I question your knowledge of these passages.

 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:



Selling a wedding cake to a gay or straight couple is not "condoning" what they do. It is simply selling them a wedding cake.

 

To the contrary, I am most likely just as familiar with the scriptures as you are. Someone disagreeing with you does not mean they are not as familiar. I asked the question because you could have been referencing any of quite a few scriptures that could be erroneously interpreted to justify discriminating against someone because of a religious belief. Yes you did "avoid the question" but ..... you interpreted a meaning from scriptures in Romans, as you posted to someone else. I addressed that interpretation in my reply to that posting.


So if you sold someone a gun knowing that it would be used to commit a crime wouldn't necessarily mean you were condoning the crime?

 

The meaning is clear as written.

 

I question your knowledge of these passages.

 


Is a gay couple marrying a crime?

 

If it is clear as written then show the "writing" or scripture you base your claim on.

 

And I question your knowledge of these passages, so I guess that makes us even.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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