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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 21 of 156

@alferdpacker—RE: homosexuality—How dare you use scientific research and your knowledge to argue the obvious? What you write is common knowledge—known for years amongst anyone who pays attention. 

Thanks for providing accuracy and knowledge into what should be a non issue.

People are born with differing sexual orientations.

Only extreme ignorants and those living under a rock don’t understand that.

It is ILLEGAL to discrimminate—period.

All other excuses SCREAM THREE THINGS—IGNORANCE,

HOMOPHOBIA,

and total DISREGARD FOR THE LAW. 

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!

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Message 22 of 156


@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Loulit wrote:

 

Tough to argue against that. I'm not saying it's okay to discriminate against gays. I'm saying there are 2 sides to this argument.



Yes there is two sides.  But one has to ask is the person being discriminated against or is it the lifestyle?   And should one be forced to condone the lifestyle...


 

More than half of Americans are ok with homosexuality.

That's because the preponderance of scientific evidence - as opposed to fact-free ignorance-based prejudicial bigotry - has led to the knowledge-based realization that one is either born straight, bi, or gay.

It never was a choice - only the delusional believe that.

 

Two thirds of Roman Catholics, as well as mainline Protestants support same sex marriage.

 

Nationally, slightly less than a fifth of Americans - an ever-shrinking crackpot minority - think homosexuality and same sex marriage should be illegal.

 

Should the majority be required to condone and approve of the non-mainstream lifestyle of the whackadoodle crackpot minority?

 

Of course the Constitution grants them the right to believe what they do.

 

But should their attempts to establish un-Constitutional religious tyranny/bigotry be condoned?

 

 

He is useless on top of the ground - he should be under it - inspiring the cabbages... Mark Twain 1894 - APPLIES TO TRUMP TODAY
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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 23 of 156

@ChasKy53 wrote:

Even Christians are held to the laws of our society, regardless of their beliefs. Nothing in Romans justifies a person breaking laws.

Your carrying this to the extremes of cutting off one's hand is being very hypocritical and deviating from the issue.

 

As far as your rejecting the scripture I furnished as not applying to one's belief in what way?

 

Using as a parallel about law, then you believe that the early Christians in Rome was wrong in not obeying Roman law to worship their gods?  Even to the extent of being soaked in oil and being used as human torches? 

 

You are basically saying that a person obeying the commands of the scripture I furnished isrequired to put man's laws over those of God?  Therefore the Romans were justified in their putting Christians to death for not worshiping their false gods?

 

 

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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 24 of 156

@Loulit wrote:

 

Tough to argue against that. I'm not saying it's okay to discriminate against gays. I'm saying there are 2 sides to this argument.



Yes there is two sides.  But one has to ask is the person being discriminated against or is it the lifestyle?   And should one be forced to condone the lifestyle...

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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 25 of 156

@rker321 wrote:

I can't believe that we are actually discussing religion in any of this.


 


Yes it is a secular government reinforced by the Constitution saying that no laws would be passed respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.  The thread is based on a court decision regarding the baker's religious beliefs. 

 

Apparently some here believes that a person abrogates those beliefs if they go into business of their own.  That is as much a bias against religion as it would be to discriminate for any other reason.

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Message 26 of 156

@Richva wrote:



Hobby Lobby was about a particular type of birth control where there were other options offered through the HL health plan. You are suggesting that the baker can abdicate the responsibility to serve the public equally by providing a work around or sending certain classes of people to other vendors.  I don't think that works. 

 

The court is not trying to determine if the problem was resolved. They are trying to determine if rights are violated. 


The Hobby Lobby decision indicates that religious beliefs can be a factor in operating a business.  And doubtful the baker has any responsibiltity to the public since she operates a profit making business, not a public service.  The state is telling her how to run it much like would be in a dictatorial country.  If the state is going to tell her how to run her business, then why can't they subsidize her for any losses since they have become a silent partner? 

 

She was showing concern in declining the customer by arranging an alternate way.

 

 

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Message 27 of 156

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

 

Is a gay couple marrying a crime?

 



Now you are attempting to equate spirtual and religious matters with secular laws and matters.  Read Romans 1: 26-27, in fact read the entire chapter.  

 

But of course you, as with others, will only believe what you want to believe and see what you want to see.


You only "believe what you want to believe and see what you want to see", correct? Technically that is true with everyone. I am not "equating" anything, I asked a question which you failed to answer. No, it is not against the law. Even Christians are held to the laws of our society, regardless of their beliefs. Nothing in Romans justifies a person breaking laws. If you don't like the laws, try and get them changed. Again, if my religious beliefs justify me cutting off someone's hand it doesn't make it legal to do so.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Message 28 of 156

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:



You have shown that you cannot quote a scripture which says it is wrong or a sin for a baker to create and sell a wedding cake to a gay couple.  Thank you for being so clear about it.


And you can't quote scripture where it isn't wrong. You made a claim and cannot back it up and ask me to prove it wrong. Of course you do. Fact is, I doubt you even know much about the scripture.Your "doubts" and constant insults and accusations mean nothing.  But where the lady finds it wrong is that it would violate her religious beliefs. So "religious beliefs" justify someone's actions when they wrong someone else?  Those beliefs are derived from the epistles of the Apostles, not from some religious leader, but from the scriptures. Then show those scriptures. HER religious beliefs as outlined in the Bible not YOURSThen show those scriptures, since you are making this claim.

 

When did you get the authority to dictate what another person can believe religiously. People can believe what they want but it dosn't justify them to wrong others.  Perhaps you need to do more serious study of those epistles? Perhaps you do.

 

You just can't stand for anyone to have an opinion or belief other than yours, can you? Another lame attempt at insulting. Evidently you are the one that can't. I have already stated that anyone can hold any religious belief that they desire but it doesn't justify them to wrong others. Do only Christian religious beliefs justify one to wrong others and go against the law or does that also hold true for religious beliefs other than Christian? How about Sharia law? How about all other religions that may not even believe in God?


 


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Message 29 of 156

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

 



The topic is about law - Constitutional law of California and of the United States Of America - secular law only.

 

Attempting to inject religion into court deliberation and into the Supreme Law of the Land is an unpatriotic act.

 

 


The verdict in this case is based on something that does not exist but what a baker is expected to design, create and make.  And the declining to do so but referring the requester to a competator with who prior arangements had been made in such instances.

 

Further the reason for declining was based on the baker's religious beliefs.  Chasky has been badgering for scripture that would back up this belief so I have furnished it.  Apparently you just can't accept that explanation. 

 

The Constitution of the United States applies to everyone, not just for those who have no use for religious beliefs.  The state forcing her to do something against her beliefs goes against the establishment of religion or the exercise thereof; even in her business and exhibits a bias against and infringing on her valid religious beliefs. 

 

I would believe that the Supreme Court decision in favor of Hobby Lobby should exhibit that a person/business is entitled to religious factors even in business.

 

 


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

 

The very first line, in the very First Amendment, in the Bill of Rights.

 

Tough to argue against that. I'm not saying it's okay to discriminate against gays. I'm saying there are 2 sides to this argument.

 

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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 30 of 156

I can't believe that we are actually discussing religion in any of this.

This is a secular society. The bible belongs at home and in church. not int he courts of this country.

The Supreme Court will decide if any rights were violated, not what religious rights were violated. but individual rights.
Please. do leave religion ad home and in church where it belongs.

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