Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

[TxGrandpa2]

---

@alferdpacker wrote:

---

---

True - some comprehend the Constitution and it's implications - some don't.

---

Agree.  Apparently the judge in this case realized that the cake hadn't been created, but the lady was being sued in an attempt to perform her artistry in favor of something she didn't believe in.  What if she had created two demons as an illustration of her beliefs regarding the occasion?  That would be perfectly legitimate as it reflected her creative idea.

The law can't force a person to be creative contrary to their beliefs.  But apparently there are those who have no regard that others have religious beliefs where they don't.  There are examples throughout history beginning with the crucifixtion of Christ; the deaths of Christians in Rome for not following the laws requiring them to worship their gods, up through these 'cake' convictions. 

[alferdpacker]

---

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@alferdpacker

You are talking around in circles and not addressing the case here.  This concerns a person's religious beliefs, just like the previous case that is similar to the one before the Supreme Court.  It is against her religious beliefs even as the owner of the bakery.  She shouldn't lose her right to religious beliefs just because she has established a business.  Since it is, she has an agreement with a competitor that would accomodate gay wedding cakes.

Your attempts at legalese might be ok in a legal atmosphere but is just mumbo jumbo here.

---

True - some comprehend the Constitution and it's implications - some don't.

Some believe that a rainbow is a sign that god is having gay sex - is there any truth to that belief?

[TxGrandpa2]

@alferdpacker

You are talking around in circles and not addressing the case here.  This concerns a person's religious beliefs, just like the previous case that is similar to the one before the Supreme Court.  It is against her religious beliefs even as the owner of the bakery.  She shouldn't lose her right to religious beliefs just because she has established a business.  Since it is, she has an agreement with a competitor that would accomodate gay wedding cakes.

Your attempts at legalese might be ok in a legal atmosphere but is just mumbo jumbo here.

[Olderscout66]

Soomehow (probably from not caring about the whole affair) I missed the part about it being a "custom" wedding cake, and that is a very different matter then just selling the couple a "wedding cake". Now you've gotten into the area of "personal services contracts" which for a very long time have been held to be unenforceable - basically you cannot base a contract on YOUR interpretation of what the "artist" produces. In short, you hire someone to perform Italian Opera in your restaurant, whatever he sings is what you get AND PAY FOR. You cannot compel the artist to produce his/her "art" to your specifications, so it seems the baker has a very valid point.

If I understand the bizarre machinations of "personal service contracts"  she could produce a cake with the little figures on top burning in the (artistically rendered) Fires of Hell and the couple would have to pay for it because that would(might?) be her interpretation of the union, which is what they paid for.

I would suggest the happy couple find another baker.

[alferdpacker]

---

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

---

@rker321 wrote:

---

 I can tell you that I feel that my religion should not exercise their power of the faith into social issues.

I would be extremely upset if  the Catholic Pope would issue  a  rule in which they would actually as Catholic enforce  a social issue.

---

Are you saying that a person should not extend their religious beliefs into their everyday lives, including business dealings?  The New Testament itself dictates as to how to conduct one's faith in dealing with others.  These bakers had no problem with regular cakes or sweets...or in selling them to anyone..their objection was in selling or designing a cake celebrating a gay wedding.

Would these laws dictate a church performing a gay wedding if it was against their beliefs. 

---

The Constitutionally defined secular Law of the Land - is separated by a wall - from the "law of the bible" and "god's law".

Neither is permitted to infringe upon the other - otherwise - it would become mandatory for christian congregations to admit satanists and their beliefs, wouldn't it?

[alferdpacker]

---

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

---

And where does the government get the right to deny a person, whether in business or not that they can't adher to their beliefs.  It requires making accomodation for everything but a person's religious beliefs?  Sort of one sided and taking away one person's rights in favor of another?

So - if - as you advocate - everyone should be allowed to adhere to their religious - or moral - or ethical beliefs/convictions in running their business...

Wouldn't that mean that a business owned and run by either non-heterosexuals - or non-christians would - by law - be allowed to discriminate against persons who are straight and/or have an opposite sex marriage - or are christians because of the beliefs - orthodox or not - of the homosexual and or non-christian business owners?

Should that be the Law of the Land? 

 What it comes down to is that all marriages are equal under the law - and are lawful marriages - Period.

No one can discriminate in businesses open to the public for religious reasons.

If the bakery wants to discriminate based upon the religious beliefs/convictions of the owners - it has to be either a bona fide church itself - or be owned and operated by a bona fide church.

Is allowing persons to be able to either have time off, a day off, or other consideration for religious belief and practice in any manner, shape or form an act of discrimination?

Obviously not - the Supreme Court has said so - including that as a bogus allegation of inequality is not in keeping with the Constitutionally derived valid mandates of the Law of the Land.

---

[Loulit]

Just for the record I'd like to say if it were up to me, I'd rule in favor of the baker.  I've explained why ad nauseam so I'm done now

[TxGrandpa2]

---

@rker321 wrote:

---

 I can tell you that I feel that my religion should not exercise their power of the faith into social issues.

I would be extremely upset if  the Catholic Pope would issue  a  rule in which they would actually as Catholic enforce  a social issue.

---

Are you saying that a person should not extend their religious beliefs into their everyday lives, including business dealings?  The New Testament itself dictates as to how to conduct one's faith in dealing with others.  These bakers had no problem with regular cakes or sweets...or in selling them to anyone..their objection was in selling or designing a cake celebrating a gay wedding.

Would these laws dictate a church performing a gay wedding if it was against their beliefs. 

[GailL1]

Some Cake Art - Yummmmm, Ohhhhhh, Awwwww, Wow -

[TxGrandpa2]

---

@Richva wrote:

---

---

Where in the Roman Catholic religion does it say a baker does not have to serve every customer that comes through the door?  Is this a biblical thing? Leviticus 18:22 maybe? Exodus 21:7-11 maybe? (No that is permission to sell your daughter into servitude). Exodus 35:1-3 maybe? (No, that is putting to death anyone who works on the Sabbath). 

---

And where did I say that I was a Catholic?  Not everyone is Catholic.  I just consider myself as a Christian, no other designation.  Additionally the verses you quoted is from the law of Moses that only applies to those of the Jewish faith.  Christians are concerned with the New Testament scriptures.

Have to ask now is who is cherry picking their verses?

And where does the government get the right to deny a person, whether in business or not that they can't adher to their beliefs.  It requires making accomodation for everything but a person's religious beliefs?  Sort of one sided and taking away one person's rights in favor of another?