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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 131 of 156

@GailL1 wrote:

@Centristsin2010

Now I would call that a custom work but the concept has been done many times before to get the "geode" look.  First time I've seen a "geode" look cake, but many here have a few years more experience on me.  I'll keep my eye open.

 

Art always has interpretation from the viewer.  Yes it does and that's why, IMO, it's so precious. 


 


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 132 of 156

@GailL1 wrote:

I guess I don't see this so much as some sort of discrimination as it might be how far government can force someone using their specific talents in a business setting to do something they don't want to do or even feel (talent wise) that they can perform such using their talents.

 

Like having to be concerned that their customers might be armed and dangerous?  The government has FORCED that on all of us, haven't they?


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 133 of 156

@Centristsin2010

Now I would call that a custom work but the concept has been done many times before to get the "geode" look.

 

Art always has interpretation from the viewer. 

 

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 134 of 156

I guess I don't see this so much as some sort of discrimination as it might be how far government can force someone using their specific talents in a business setting to do something they don't want to do or even feel (talent wise) that they can perform such using their talents.

 

Many of our discrimination laws have allowances -

A single landlord who has a duplex or quad unit, lives in one and rents out the others has more flexibility in choosing their neighboring tenants.

A business has to supply only reasonable accommodations to an employee with some sort of special needs, be that a disability or handicap or a woman which has a breast feeding infant.

 

As the linked article pointed out, this ONLY involves custom work not the selling of items that are already on the shelf. Custom, to me, coming from an Art business, means something unique and special just for a particular person, in this case, a couple.  I do not consider some reproduction created as a complete custom item.

 

In this case, the subject baker, also made arrangement for another baker to help out the couple with their request.

 

The way I am interpreting this, it is the uniqueness of the item and the way the baker feels about doing it using their own talents which is the question at hand and whatever the decision may have other far reaching legal consequences.  

 

I believe that the current case before the SCOTUS is a case much like this one, if I remember correctly and that is the one which should have a ruling this summer.

 

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 135 of 156

And in other custom cake news.....

 

'What, you don't like the labia pink?' Minnesota bakery goes viral after sharing a photo of a geode-inspired cake that ended up looking VERY similar to a **bleep**

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5359641/Minnesota-bakery-goes-viral-sharing-**bleep**-cake... 

 

 

Really?  Ouch!


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 136 of 156

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Loulit wrote:


The gay couple has the law on their side and will most likely win the case. Then we'll live in a country where the government can tell a business owner to betray his religous principles or close his doors.

 

 


Has the religious freedom part of the Constitution been done away with?  The government is forbidden to pass any law regarding religion.  According to your post they have the right to forbid anyone from practicing their religion.  What next, are they going to adopt the Roman practice of burning Christians at the stake?


Where in the Roman Catholic religion does it say a baker does not have to serve every customer that comes through the door?  Is this a biblical thing? Leviticus 18:22 maybe? Exodus 21:7-11 maybe? (No that is permission to sell your daughter into servitude). Exodus 35:1-3 maybe? (No, that is putting to death anyone who works on the Sabbath). 

 

Seems to me Christians are cherry picking their verses. 

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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 137 of 156

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Loulit wrote:


 

 

 


Has the religious freedom part of the Constitution been done away with?  The government is forbidden to pass any law regarding religion.  According to your post they have the right to forbid anyone from practicing their religion.  What next, are they going to adopt the Roman practice of burning Christians at the stake?


It depends on what you want your  government to be involved in  I am  a practicing Catholic  and I can tell you that I feel that my religion should not exercise their power of the faith into social issues.
I would be extremely upset if  the Catholic Pope would issue  a  rule in which they would actually as Catholic enforce  a social issue.

I truly believe in the separation of State and Religion.
They have no business interfering in each other. 
There are many things in other religions that I don't believe or even agree with. Therefore I wouldn't want to see any of those religions imposing their beliefs  on me.
But if you don't believe in the separation or Religion and State, then in that case of course you will not agree with any law that mixes religion and social laws.

 

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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 138 of 156

@phyllisc6781 wrote:

@Loulit wrote:

@phyllisc6781 wrote:

@Loulit wrote:

What if it was just someone he didn't like. Say a person whose kid had beaten up his kid at school. Could he say, "No, I'm not baking for you. Get the h** l out of my store."  I would hope he could.

 

In the case of the same-sex couple the problem is one that pits the rights of the individual's religious freedom and freedom of speech, against the rights of a group which cannot be legally discriminated against.

 

The baker contends that a custom wedding cake celebrating a gay marriage is a work of art. The government cannot force a painter to paint, a singer to sing, a sculptor to sculpt.  If a gay couple wants a wedding band and that band does not want to perform for a same sex marriage reception, can the government make them take the stage? I sure hope not.

 

I'm for gay marriage. I'm for gay couples adopting kids. Gay married couples are entitled to all the rights an employer grants to straight couples, such as the spouse of the employee being covered by company health insurance.

 

But if the business owner finds himself morally unable to create for something his religion forbids, he should be able to say no. It's his business, his store. Maybe the best thing for the gay couple to do is walk down the street to the next bakery. If the gay couple want to protest and boycott the bakery that wouldn't serve them, they can. 

 

I usually come down on the side of the individual. In this case, the baker; a small business owner trying to stand up for what he believes. I think what he believes is ignorant and wrong -- but I wouldn't take away his right to believe it. The ACLU is representing the gay couple. I was a big fan of the ACLU until United Citizens v. Federal Elections Commission. They picked the wrong side on that one and I cancelled my membership. I was steamin'. I think the ACLU is on the wrong side again.

 

 


This is not a simple your kid hit mine. This is discrimination. This is a business owner who chose to ignore the laws against discrimination. If the owners are open for business, they are open for business to everyone. Good for ACLU! Very bad ruling on part of judge who over turned original order. A review of non-discrimination statutes might be in order. 

It is people like these bakers who make me wonder what the heck is wrong with people. I own a small business myself, and not only would I never decide non-discrimination laws didn’t apply to me, I would never be so disgustingly narcissistic or ignorant as to think I shouldn’t cater to someone due to  their choice of a mate. 

I liked the idea of the poster who said people should boycott the business until the bigoted and ignorant owners go out of business. 

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!


The gay couple has the law on their side and will most likely win the case. Then we'll live in a country where the government can tell a business owner to betray his religous principles or close his doors.

 

Great.


If you believe that God created man, you know God created gays—(1 in every ten people are born homosexual—look it up), so in what REAL religion is it ok to turn one's back on God’s creations?

 Using religion as an excuse to be a bigot is no more than an easy out to discriminate against that which is not understood.

Another tidbot of info.—homosexuality is found in all species—did God make a huge mistake? Remember that the Bible was written by man, given free will by God. When the majority of people are heterosexual, of course homosexual behavior as seen as “strange,” and, of course, that is how it was interpreted by the men—NOT GOD—who wrote the Book.

But,  there was no science, nothing available to help them understand that this is a common—and natural occurrence.

 

 Using religion as an excuse to be ignorant and bigoted is actually something I think would cause God great pain. Religion is no excuse to condemn others for something that happens frequently in nature. God made no mistake.

 

And again,  if you are in a business open to the public,  you serve the public. If you want to practice your religion, go to church. If you can’t do both, go find another occupation. 

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!


 

 

You know it's funny, Phyllisc6781,

 

You mock and rail against this government severely, until you want the government to enforce a law you agree with.  And everything about homosexuality in your post has been known by anyone with sense for, I dunno, 2 decades, something like that. But I don't understand why the baker's position must be an excuse to discriminate against gays rather than a sacred, sincerely treasured, religious and moral belief.

Me? I'm an atheist. Richard Dawkins is one of my heroes. As an atheist, it would be crazy to think the government could make attend church on Sundays or whatever sabbath.  But the government telling a Christian he must create something to help celebrate what the Bible states is unacceptable, is wrong. The baker discriminating against the gay couple is equally wrong.

 

As I said, the couple have the law on their side and will win, I think. But it makes me unhappy to give the government that power.  I'd rather the court ruled for the baker and for gays to call for a boycott and march up and down in front of the bakery protesting. 

 

You know, Phyllisc6781, I enjoy your rants as much as the next guy, but save them for someone who merits them. I came to my opinion after much consideration, some research, and realizing that no matter who wins here, I was not going to be happy.

 

Not everything is black and white, Sometimes we have to consider the baker's point of view as sincere and important to the way he lives his life. I made a very tough call. It could absolutely be the wrong call, I know.  But I don't deserve your post that makes me sound like I'm anti-gay and know nothing about homosexuality.  What made you reply to my post that way, I don't understand. I'm not anti-gay, nor am I ignorant about the many aspects of homosexuality; I just have a different opinion at which I arrived after making some difficult choices. So take a breath, get a grip, and maybe you'll see you read into that post opinions that aren't there.

Winter is Coming.
11/06
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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 139 of 156

@Loulit wrote:


The gay couple has the law on their side and will most likely win the case. Then we'll live in a country where the government can tell a business owner to betray his religous principles or close his doors.

 

 


Has the religious freedom part of the Constitution been done away with?  The government is forbidden to pass any law regarding religion.  According to your post they have the right to forbid anyone from practicing their religion.  What next, are they going to adopt the Roman practice of burning Christians at the stake?

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Re: Custom Wedding Cake Legal Battle Continues

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Message 140 of 156

@phyllisc6781 wrote:


This is not a simple your kid hit mine. This is discrimination. This is a business owner who chose to ignore the laws against discrimination. If the owners are open for business, they are open for business to everyone.


If the state is going to dictate to an owner of how to run their business, requiring them of what sort of customer it is geared to, etc., then perhaps the state should also furnish the owner with funds and time to invest into the business.   The owner is the one who stands to lose for their business decisions, not the state per se.

 

Further, does anyone here have the right to dictate to an owner how to run their business?


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