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Honored Social Butterfly

Columbus statue in Baltimore torn down and thrown in harbor

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/columbus-statue-in-baltimore-torn-down-and-thrown-in-harbor/

 

A statue of Christopher Columbus in Baltimore's Little Italy was torn down amid protests Saturday night and then thrown into the Inner Harbor. Videos posted to social media showed the statue was pulled down using rope, and then dragged down a flight of stairs before being tossed into the harbor, CBS Baltimore reported.

 

The crowd can be heard cheering as the statue is thrown in the harbor. The statue was thrown in the harbor as fireworks went off across the city to celebrate the Fourth of July. 

 

Governor Larry Hogan on Sunday said tearing down the statue was "antithesis of democracy and should be condemned by everyone, regardless of their politics."

 

"While we welcome peaceful protests and constructive dialogue on whether and how to put certain monuments in context or move them to museums or storage through a legal process, lawlessness, vandalism, and destruction of public property are completely unacceptable," Hogan said. 

Police told CBS Baltimore late Saturday that they were aware of the incident, but roads in the area had been blocked off by protesters.

The statue was dedicated to the City of Baltimore by the Italian American Organization in October 1984, according to CBS Baltimore. 

 

Lester Davis, a spokesman for Mayor Bernard C. "Jack" Young, told The Baltimore Sun on Saturday night that tearing down the statue is part of a "reexamination taking place nationally and globally around some of these monuments and statues that may represent different things to different people." 

Davis said tearing down the statue is part of a larger "national narrative." Protests have erupted nationwide after the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis. Baltimore was also the scene of protests in 2015 when Freddie Gray died after suffering a traumatic spine injury while in police custody. 

 

=============================================================

 

Lester Davis, a spokesman for Mayor Bernard C. "Jack" Young, told The Baltimore Sun on Saturday night that tearing down the statue is part of a "reexamination taking place nationally and globally around some of these monuments and statues that may represent different things to different people.

 

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So is that any reason to take whats right and what is not into the hands of a few and let them do what they did?  

 

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and..." Police told CBS Baltimore late Saturday that they were aware of the incident, but roads in the area had been blocked off by protesters."

 

Protesters?  No!  Criminals ..YES!

 

Lock them up!

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Honored Social Butterfly

Fox viewers/Trump Cult members don't understand the dynamics of what's happening in America. In their world, they think people approve of the looting and rioting by a tiny percentage of protesters. No, people don't approve of that, but they're smart enough to realize we have much more important issues to be concerned about. But on Fox, they only care about PROPERTY.

Honored Social Butterfly

With everything going on in America, Fox and Trump Cult members are obsessed with a tiny percentage of Americans, probably way less than 1%.

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Honored Social Butterfly

That 1% lawless liberals (probably more) are causing a disproportionate amount of serious crime in our country including murder!

 

Apparently, the Obama cult doesn't care.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

That 1% lawless liberals (probably more) are causing a disproportionate amount of serious crime in our country including murder!

An unsubstantiated bogus claim!

 

Apparently, the Obama cult doesn't care.

Followed by yet ANOTHER unsubstantiated bogus claim!


 

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Honored Social Butterfly

It is literally and sadly amazing that a statue of Columbus gets tore down and the far right gets rabid. 

 

But in comparison, income and wealth disparity has reached record proportions, close to half of America is living paycheck to paycheck, two weeks after layoffs from the pandemic food lines grow to record proportions and all we hear is 'crickets' from the far right.

 

The far right show more compassion for statues of racists than for the 46% of Americans who live just above the poverty level. It's also very sad that we seem to have a POTUS of the same persuasion.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

This from a Rapid City Journal article titled "top 5 Atrocities Columbus committed"

 

In his journal, Columbus didn’t mince words about his intentions after meeting the Arawak natives in the Bahamas in 1492. He described the encounter thusly: “They ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things ... They willingly traded everything they owned ... They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features .... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane. ... They would make fine servants. ... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.” Columbus would add: “As soon as I arrived in the Indies, on the first Island which I found, I took some of the natives by force in order that they might learn and might give me information of whatever there is in these parts.”

 

While abhorrent by today's standards, this typifies the European beliefs about non-Europeans before the 20th Century. Slavery was virtually universal, condoned by Religious authorities and a vital component of the economies of the day. Rather than tearing down all the statues, lets restore fair taxation and spend the additional revenues to improve our schools so in 20 years, everyone will understand THINGS CHANGE, and "conserving" the past cannot be used to justify the sheer stupidity of racism or racists.

Honored Social Butterfly

I think the point behind removing the honors bestowed on Christopher Columbus is his brutal treatment of the natives he discovered.  Here is a link to the Top 5 atrocities committed by Christopher Columbus. Certainly removing his statues will not change history but it may cause people to actually read the history rather than assume greatness. 

Silver Conversationalist

So you think that future generations will be re-writing it to be revisionist history?  Apparently that is what is being tried here.  It has been tried by governments and others before, but eventually the truth prevails.  

 

It has become apparent that you like others are only wanting to hear what you want to hear.  For myself, I'll stick to the facts.

 

Have a good evening.

-------------------------------------------------------

 

We can agree that the truth will prevail. Every time a Columbus statue comes down the truth prevails and they're all coming down. When Columbus, Ohio, takes down his statue down the others will follow. Get used to it. There's much more prevailing truth coming at us like a juggernaut.

 

We're done honoring people who sold 9-year-old girls as sex slaves no matter what century they did it in and that's the facts.

 

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'

Bob Dylan

 

All, all of a piece throughout;
Thy chase had a beast in view;
Thy wars brought nothing about;
Thy lovers were all untrue.
'Tis well an old age is out,
And time to begin a new.
John Dryden
 
(drop mic)
Peace! Out!
 
 
 
Trump is an aperture in the fundament.
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Honored Social Butterfly

We put up statues to honor people and we take them down when it is appropriate.  Not one Conservative complained about "history" when statues of Lenin and Stalin were being toppled after the fall of  the Soviet Union. Rightly so, I think, but now the citizens of America are reevaluating the people they wish to honor . 

Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

We put up statues to honor people and we take them down when it is appropriate.  Not one Conservative complained about "history" when statues of Lenin and Stalin were being toppled after the fall of  the Soviet Union. Rightly so, I think, but now the citizens of America are reevaluating the people they wish to honor . 


We also cheered when Iraqis tore down the statue of Saddam Hussein....

Honored Social Butterfly

 


@ManicProgressive wrote:

@Richva wrote:

We put up statues to honor people and we take them down when it is appropriate.  Not one Conservative complained about "history" when statues of Lenin and Stalin were being toppled after the fall of  the Soviet Union. Rightly so, I think, but now the citizens of America are reevaluating the people they wish to honor . 


We also cheered when Iraqis tore down the statue of Saddam Hussein....


And we will cheer once again when the monument to stupidity is removed from the White House ..... and relocated to the Big House!

 

 

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Silver Conversationalist

The passage you quoted is from a book "Christopher Columbus:  His Life, His Works, His Remains  Volume 2" by John Boyd Tracher.   You can read excerpts here.

 

I've made a snapshot of that sentence plus the following paragraph.  It sounds as if it was taken out of context:

 

 

 

 

Your link goes to the source I quoted, but it ignored what he went on to write.

 

According to today's standards there is no doubt that he would not be an outstanding citizen in today's society, but he probably fit in at the time.  But the fact is his voyage where he 'discovered' America opened up an age of exploration. 

 

-------------------------------------------------------

Fine. Have it your way. I'm done here. This argument has already been decided.

 

The 'taken out of context' 'judged by the standards of his time' side lost. That's why the statues are coming down.

 

There are those who will defend Columbus like Trump cultists defend their Dear Leader. Nothing will change their minds and that's okay. Regardless of what they think Trump will lose in November.

 

Columbus's defenders won't change their minds either and that's also okay. The next edition of history text books will expose Columbus for what he was. His statues will be gone and so will his reputation.

 

This argument is over because what you and I think means nothing to gen x, gen z, and millennials. They will be writing the history books from now on. Columbus is done and a good thing, too.

 

When American citizens take to the streets and topple monuments take them seriously. When was the last time statues were torn down by citizens or removed by the government of the United States? 

 

 

 

 

Trump is an aperture in the fundament.
Honored Social Butterfly


@Loulit wrote:

 

Fine. Have it your way. I'm done here. This argument has already been decided.

 

The 'taken out of context' 'judged by the standards of his time' side lost. That's why the statues are coming down.

 

There are those who will defend Columbus like Trump cultists defend their Dear Leader. Nothing will change their minds and that's okay. Regardless of what they think Trump will lose in November.

 

Columbus's defenders won't change their minds either and that's also okay. The next edition of history text books will expose Columbus for what he was. His statues will be gone and so will his reputation.

 

This argument is over because what you and I think means nothing to gen x, gen z, and millennials. They will be writing the history books from now on. Columbus is done and a good thing, too.

 

When American citizens take to the streets and topple monuments take them seriously. When was the last time statues were torn down by citizens or removed by the government of the United States? 

 


 

So you think that future generations will be re-writing it to be revisionist history?  Apparently that is what is being tried here.  It has been tried by governments and others before, but eventually the truth prevails.  

 

It has become apparent that you like others are only wanting to hear what you want to hear.  For myself, I'll stick to the facts.

 

Have a good evening.

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Silver Conversationalist

This one he admitted himself in a letter to Doña Juana de la Torre, a friend of the Spanish queen: "There are plenty of dealers who go about looking for girls; those from nine to ten are now in demand, and for all ages a good price must be paid."

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

Okay, have it your way. He wasn't a piece of human filth. Makes no difference what we think. The story of Columbus in our grandchildren's history books will not be the myth we were taught. And there will be no statues of him around to deceive people into thinking he should be honored.

 

 

Trump is an aperture in the fundament.
Honored Social Butterfly


@Loulit wrote:

This one he admitted himself in a letter to Doña Juana de la Torre, a friend of the Spanish queen: "There are plenty of dealers who go about looking for girls; those from nine to ten are now in demand, and for all ages a good price must be paid."

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

Okay, have it your way. He wasn't a piece of human filth. Makes no difference what we think. The story of Columbus in our grandchildren's history books will not be the myth we were taught. And there will be no statues of him around to deceive people into thinking he should be honored.

 

 


The passage you quoted is from a book "Christopher Columbus:  His Life, His Works, His Remains  Volume 2" by John Boyd Tracher.   You can read excerpts here.

 

I've made a snapshot of that sentence plus the following paragraph.  It sounds as if it was taken out of context:

 

Screenshot005.jpg

 

Your link goes to the source I quoted, but it ignored what he went on to write.

 

According to today's standards there is no doubt that he would not be an outstanding citizen in today's society, but he probably fit in at the time.  But the fact is his voyage where he 'discovered' America opened up an age of exploration. 

 

 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

According to today's standards there is no doubt that he would not be an outstanding citizen in today's society, but he probably fit in at the time.  But the fact is his voyage where he 'discovered' America opened up an age of exploration. 

 


"Exploration"? 

Actually, it opened up an age of "exploitation", annihilating and enslaving indigenous people and stealing their valuable resources!

 

An action to be despised and not worthy of any recognition!

 

 

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@myexper wrote:


"Exploration"? 

Actually, it opened up an age of "exploitation", annihilating and enslaving indigenous people and stealing their valuable resources!

 

An action to be despised and not worthy of any recognition!

 

 


Call it whatever you will, still it was a period for the European countries to start exploring the Western hemisphere.  It was no different than the Huns and Germanic tribes from Eurasia overrunning Europe annihilating and enslaving their indigenous people and stealing their valuable resources.

 

In South America the Incas did the same in that area, then the Spanish did the same to them.

 

You ain't in Kansas anymore pardner.  It was the way things worked in those days.   

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Honored Social Butterfly


@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@myexper wrote:


"Exploration"? 

Actually, it opened up an age of "exploitation", annihilating and enslaving indigenous people and stealing their valuable resources!

 

An action to be despised and not worthy of any recognition!

 

 


Call it whatever you will, still it was a period for the European countries to start exploring the Western hemisphere. 

exploiting it .... not exploring it!

 

It was no different than the Huns and Germanic tribes from Eurasia overrunning Europe annihilating and enslaving their indigenous people and stealing their valuable resources.

Perhaps .... But that still does make it OK Tex!

 

In South America the Incas did the same in that area, then the Spanish did the same to them.

ALL those "wrongs" do make a "right" as you fallaciously imply!

 

 

You ain't in Kansas anymore pardner. 

I never was .... as you once again fallaciously imply Tex!

 

 

It was the way things worked in those days.

Well, it's obviously NOT the way things work today .... hence the removal of Columbus statues!


 

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@myexper wrote:

 

It was the way things worked in those days.

Well, it's obviously NOT the way things work today .... hence the removal of Columbus statues!


 


Of course remove all statues, etc and that will make everything right and change history.

 

Bye now pardner...

Honored Social Butterfly


@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

 

It was the way things worked in those days.

Well, it's obviously NOT the way things work today .... hence the removal of Columbus statues!


 


Of course remove all statues, etc and that will make everything right and change history.

 

Bye now pardner...


Removing all the statues will not change history Tex. But it will stop honoring a person who NEVER deserved to be honored in the first place!!!

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

Removing all the statues will not change history Tex. But it will stop honoring a person who NEVER deserved to be honored in the first place!!!

 

 

Why do you think it's up to YOU to determine who deserves to get honored (in the first place)?

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@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Removing all the statues will not change history Tex. But it will stop honoring a person who NEVER deserved to be honored in the first place!!!

 

 

Why do you think it's up to YOU to determine who deserves to get honored (in the first place)?

It's up to ALL informed moral people who recognize that pillaging, raping, torture and murder are not actions that render honoring!


 

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It's up to ALL informed moral people who recognize that pillaging, raping, torture and murder are not actions that render honoring!

 

 

So why do you pay such homage to those who pillage, rape, torture, and kill?  You do so by encouraging those liberals rioting in the Democrat cities!

Honored Social Butterfly


@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

It's up to ALL informed moral people who recognize that pillaging, raping, torture and murder are not actions that render honoring!

 

 

So why do you pay such homage to those who pillage, rape, torture, and kill? 

A blatant despicable false accusation NOTHAPPENING!!!!

I have NEVER "paid  any such homage" as you falsely accuse!

 

 

You do so by encouraging those liberals rioting in the Democrat cities!

Followed by yet ANOTHER false accusation!!!


 

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Removing all the statues will not change history.  But it will stop honoring a person who NEVER deserved to be honored in the first place!!!

 

Of course Christopher Columbus did not “discover” the Americas, nor was he even the first European to visit the “New World.”  However, his journey kicked off centuries of exploration and exploitation on the American continents

 

Not only that poster, but other posters thinks so little of Columbus voyage that they fail (or not want) to give any significance to his voyages to realize that if he hadn't opened up the continued exploration and populating these continents we wouldn't be here.  Unless their parents had met in the old country prior to immigrating.

 

Instead they keep concentrating on the group think here about his character, including using texts out of context.  If they use references they ignore anything that destroys their point.   We should also remember the thinking of that time.   As an example burning people at the stake was used as a punishment..

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

myexper wrote in blue:

Removing all the statues will not change history.  But it will stop honoring a person who NEVER deserved to be honored in the first place!!!

 

 

Of course Christopher Columbus did not “discover” the Americas, nor was he even the first European to visit the “New World.”  However, his journey kicked off centuries of exploration and exploitation on the American continents

His "exploitation" rendered the brutal murder, enslavement, rape of little girls and torture of indigenous people ..... nothing to honor Tex!!!

 

Not only that poster, but other posters thinks so little of Columbus voyage that they fail (or not want) to give any significance to his voyages to realize that if he hadn't opened up the continued exploration and populating these continents we wouldn't be here.  Unless their parents had met in the old country prior to immigrating.

Most doubtful Tex. By now, I gotta believe that some European somewhere would have put a boat in the water and headed out this way. If not, European satellites surely would have discovered America from outer space!

 

 

Instead they keep concentrating on the group think here about his character, including using texts out of context. 

His "character"  whereby he murdered, enslaved, raped little girls and tortured indigenous people cannot be overlooked .... and certainly not honored!

 

 

If they use references they ignore anything that destroys their point.   We should also remember the thinking of that time.   As an example burning people at the stake was used as a punishment..

That justifies nothing .... and only further exemplifies the need to condemn such action and not justify it!


 

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@myexper wrote:

His "exploitation" rendered the brutal murder, enslavement, rape of little girls and torture of indigenous people ..... nothing to honor Tex!!!

 

By now, I gotta believe that some European somewhere would have put a boat in the water and headed out this way. If not, European satellites surely would have discovered America from outer space!

 


 


You keep repeating that without any valid references and only repeating what other posters have posted.   The instance where a reference was posted, was taken out of context and omitted part of it.  Further you have never posted any source of your posts but only your opinions and thoughts.

 

I challenge you to reference your sources for your accusations.  Of course that has been asked, but you have consisted to choose not to.  Basically you are repeating what another poster said, and then it was pointed out that what was posted omitted pertinent information.

 

As far as my suggestion that those of us posting here would more than likely not be here if Columbus hadn't started the age of exploration your suggestion is ridiculous.

Events are a one time chance, and even if eventually happenings would occur at a later time wouldn't mean that the timeline would be as it did.

 

As far as  your  satellites is concerned, that is a far out conjecture and the pool of knowledge to achieve them stretched over two continents.  This country further developed the technology.

 

Until you post references to your posts about this topic, there is no need to further discuss it.

 

Have a good evening.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

His "exploitation" rendered the brutal murder, enslavement, rape of little girls and torture of indigenous people ..... nothing to honor Tex!!!

 

By now, I gotta believe that some European somewhere would have put a boat in the water and headed out this way. If not, European satellites surely would have discovered America from outer space!

 


 


You keep repeating that without any valid references and only repeating what other posters have posted.   The instance where a reference was posted, was taken out of context and omitted part of it.  Further you have never posted any source of your posts but only your opinions and thoughts.

 

I challenge you to reference your sources for your accusations.  Of course that has been asked, but you have consisted to choose not to.  Basically you are repeating what another poster said, and then it was pointed out that what was posted omitted pertinent information.

 

As far as my suggestion that those of us posting here would more than likely not be here if Columbus hadn't started the age of exploration your suggestion is ridiculous.

Events are a one time chance, and even if eventually happenings would occur at a later time wouldn't mean that the timeline would be as it did.

 

As far as  your  satellites is concerned, that is a far out conjecture and the pool of knowledge to achieve them stretched over two continents.  This country further developed the technology.

 

Until you post references to your posts about this topic, there is no need to further discuss it.

 

Have a good evening.


Wrong Tex .... References to the atrocities committed by Columbus are contained throughout this topic.

Please read posts before attempting to criticize them!

 

 

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