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Honored Social Butterfly

Climate Change / It's apocalyptic.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/australia/2019/12/27/on-land-australias-rising-heat-is-apocalypti... 

 

On land, Australia’s rising heat is ‘apocalyptic.’ In the ocean, it’s even worse

 

 

BRUNY ISLAND, TASMANIA—Even before the ocean caught fever and reached temperatures no one had ever seen, Australia’s ancient giant kelp was cooked.

 

Rodney Dillon noticed the day he squeezed into a wet suit several years ago and dove into Trumpeter Bay to catch his favourite food, a big sea snail called abalone. As he swam amid the towering kelp forest, he saw that “it had gone slimy.” He scrambled out of the water and called a scientist at the University of Tasmania in nearby Hobart. “I said, ‘Mate, all our kelp’s dying, and you need to come down here and have a look.’

 

“But no one could do anything about it.”

 

Climate change had arrived at this island near the bottom of the world, and the giant kelp that flourished in its cold waters was among the first things to go.

 

Over recent decades, the rate of ocean warming off Tasmania, Australia’s southernmost state and a gateway to the South Pole, has climbed to nearly four times the global average, oceanographers say.

 

More than 95 per cent of the giant kelp — a living highrise of 30-foot stalks that served as a habitat for some of the rarest marine creatures in the world — died.

 

Giant kelp had stretched the length of Tasmania’s rocky east coast throughout recorded history. Now it clings to a tiny patch near Southport, the island’s southern tip, where the water is colder.

 

“This is a hot spot,” said Neil Holbrook, a professor who researches ocean warming at the Institute for Marine and Antarctic Studies at the University of Tasmania. “And it’s one of the big ones.”

 

Climate scientists say it’s essential to hold global temperatures to 1.5 C above pre-industrial times to avoid irreversible damage from warming.

 

The Tasman Sea is already well above that threshold.

 

The Washington Post’s examination of accelerated warming in the waters off Tasmania marks this year’s final instalment of a global series which identified hot spots around the world. The investigation has shown that disastrous impacts from climate change aren’t a problem lurking in the distant future: They are here now.

 

Nearly a tenth of the planet has already warmed 2 C since the late 19th century, and the abrupt rise in temperature related to human activity has transformed parts of the Earth in radical ways.

 

In the United States, New Jersey is among the fastest-warming states, and its average winter has grown so warm that lakes no longer freeze as they once did. Canadian islands are crumbling into the sea because a blanket of sea ice no longer protects them from crashing waves. Fisheries from Japan to Angola to Uruguay are collapsing as their waters warm. Arctic tundra is melting away in Siberia and Alaska, exposing the remains of woolly mammoths buried for thousands of years and flooding the gravesites of Indigenous people who have lived in an icy world for centuries.

Australia is a poster child for climate change. Wildfires are currently raging on the outskirts of its most iconic city and drought is choking a significant portion of the country.

 

Nearly 100 fires are burning in New South Wales, nearly half of them out of control. Residents of the state, where Sydney sits, wear breathing masks to tolerate the heavy smoke, which has drifted more than 800 kilometres south to the outskirts of Melbourne.

 

This is happening even though average atmospheric temperatures in Australia have yet to increase by 2 C.

 

The ocean is another story.

 

A stretch of the Tasman Sea right along Tasmania’s eastern coast has already warmed by just a fraction below 2 C, according to ocean temperature data from the Hadley Center, the U.K. government research agency on climate change.

 

As the marine heat rises and the kelp simmers into goo, Dillon and other descendants of Tasmania’s first people are losing a connection to the ocean that has defined their culture for millennia.

 

Indigenous people walked to present-day Tasmania 40,000 years ago during the Stone Age, long before rising sea levels turned the former peninsula into an island.

 

Cut off from the mainland, about a dozen nomadic tribes were the first humans to live so close to the end of the Earth, fishing amid the giant kelp for abalone, hunting kangaroo and mutton birds, turning bull kelp into tools, and fashioning pearlescent snail shells into jewelry for hundreds of generations.

 

But that was before British colonizers took their land and deployed an apartheidlike system to wipe them out.

 

Now, as descendants try to finally get full recognition as the first people and original owners of Tasmania, climate change is threatening to remove the marine life that makes so much of their culture special.

 

Two of the most severe marine heat waves ever recorded struck back to back in recent years.

In the first, starting in 2015, ocean temperatures peaked at nearly 3 C above normal in the waters between Tasmania and New Zealand. A blob of heat that reached 2 C was more than seven times the size of Tasmania, an island the size of Ireland.

 

The region’s past heat waves normally lasted as long as two months. The 2015-2016 heat wave persisted for eight months. Alistair Hobday, who studied the event, compared it to the deadly 2003 European heat wave that led to the deaths of thousands of people.

 

“Except in this case, it’s the animals that are suffering,” said Hobday, a senior research scientist at the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, a government agency.

 

South of the equator, Australia’s summer stretches from December to February — and soaring temperatures turned the mainland deadly this year. An estimated 23,000 giant fruit bats — about a third of that species’s population in Australia — dropped dead from heat stress in Queensland and New South Wales in April.

 

The bats, called flying foxes, cannot survive temperatures above 42 C. Another 10,000 black flying foxes, a different species, also died. Bodies plopped into meadows, backyard gardens and swimming pools.

 

A month later, more than 100 ringtail possums fell dead in Victoria when temperatures topped 35 C for four consecutive days.

 

The warming waters off Tasmania are not just killing the giant kelp, but transforming life for marine animals.

 

Warm-water species are swimming south to places where they could not have survived a few years ago. Kingfish, sea urchins, zooplankton and even microbes from the warmer north near the mainland now occupy waters closer to the South Pole.

 

“There’s about 60 or 70 species of fish that now have established populations in Tasmania that used not to be here,” said Craig Johnson, who leads the ecology and biodiversity centre at the Institute for Marine and Antarctic Studies at the University of Tasmania. “You might see them occasionally as sort of vagrants, but they certainly did not have established populations.”

 

But the region’s Indigenous cold-water species have no place to go. Animals such as the prehistoric-looking red handfish are accustomed to the frigid water closer to the shore. They cannot live in the deep-water abyss between the bottom tip of Tasmania and Antarctica.

 

“It’s a geographic climate trap,” Johnson said. Marine animals unique to Australia — the wallabies and koalas of the deep — could easily vanish. “So there’s going to be a whole bunch of species here that we expect will just go extinct.

 

“You know, it’s not a happy story.”


Every time he dives for abalone, Rodney Dillon plays his part in what is arguably Tasmania’s saddest story of all.

 

At 63, he’s getting too old for the occasional plunge. Before a dive on a windy day in September, two people had to wrestle his wet suit over a thick athlete’s body softened by time.

 

Dillon persists because diving puts a favourite food on the family table, and, more important, it carries on a dying Indigenous custom nearly ended by the British crown and the Australian governors it appointed.

 

Under the water, amid swaying emerald stalks of kelp, Dillon thought that he glimpsed the world his ancestors saw.

 

“I sometimes got lost in the kelp. I would lose concentration from catching food and go to look, sort of sky-gaze, at the beauty of the light coming through,” he said.

 

The light dimmed for the natives known as the Palawa in the late 1700s, when the British established a penal colony for convicted outcasts at Sydney harbour and looked south for more land to conquer.

 

Between 4,000 and 7,000 Indigenous people were spread out over Tasmania, then known as Van Diemen’s Land, when the British military arrived with a group of convicts in 1803. Within 50 years, all but 200 of the Indigenous were dead.

 

In a history that isn’t widely known in Australia, let alone the wider world, Indigenous land was seized without a treaty, said Lyndall Ryan, author of “The Aboriginal Tasmanians,” a history of how the native people met their demise.

 

When the natives tried to defend the kangaroo hunting and abalone fishing grounds that sustained them, they were routed.

 

“Genocide was government policy for more than 200 years,” Ryan wrote in an email to the Post.

At the time, British archeologists adhered to junk science that said the Indigenous people were the last link between humans and apes.

 

When William Lanne, the last full-blooded Tasmanian Indigenous man, died in 1869, a researcher cut off his head, stole it to England for study, then displayed it in a museum. After Truganini, the last full-blooded woman, died seven years later, her skeleton was placed on display at a museum in Tasmania against her wishes. “Don’t let them cut me,” she said on her deathbed.

 

With their deaths, Tasmania declared that Indigenous Tasmanians were extinct.

 

Around 1910, after Australia became a nation under the British, officials launched a program that removed mixed-race Aboriginal children from their mothers.

 

In his book, “Australia’s Coloured Minority: Its Place in the Community,” author A.O. Neville partly explained the young country’s motive. Assimilation of Black Indigenous and Torres Strait Islander people could be assured only by “breeding out the colour” of their skin.

 

As a “protector of Aborigines” in Western Australia for 21 years ending in 1936, Neville had a guiding influence on the child removal program.

 

Over six decades, welfare workers across Australia took children, some of them at birth, from any parent the state deemed unfit, up to an estimated 50,000. Brown children were placed in white institutions, church social programs and homes to promote intermixing.

 

“Generally by the fifth and invariably by the sixth generation, all native characteristics of the Australian Aborigine are eradicated,” Cecil Evelyn Cook, the “chief protector of Aborigines” in North Australia, said in 1933. “The problem of our half-castes will be quickly eliminated by the complete disappearance of the Black race, and the swift submergence of their progeny in the white.”

 

Ancient Indigenous people likely would not recognize the 20,000 or so Tasmanians who currently identify as their descendants. The large majority are white.

 

Dillon said dark-complexioned Indigenous people on the mainland doubt his heritage because of his appearance.

 

Like most in Tasmania who are Indigenous, his skin is pale. His eyes are blue-green, the colour of the sea. White locks atop his head swirl like ice cream.

 

“People make nasty comments all the time,” he said.

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Social Butterfly

Anyone subscribe to National Geographic?  The April issue is an excellent source of information on climate change. 

 

We're in big trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly


@LouLit01 wrote:

Anyone subscribe to National Geographic?  The April issue is an excellent source of information on climate change. 

 

We're in big trouble.

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2020/04/these-cities-will-feel-climate-changes-effects-t...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 


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Honored Social Butterfly

Two things for sure... climate is not static, it's never the same and always changing. Weather is dynamic and shouldn't be confused with climate.

In other words, there are two directions climate moves, it's getting colder or it's getting warmer. There is no such thing as a 'climate constant'.

The people making models and predictions are the same ones who model hurricanes. Have you ever heard of a 20 day cone of probability? Have you faith in a 20 year model of weather prediction?

The earth is warming and one day the earth will be cooling. That's how climate works and has been working since the beginning of time. Go plant a tree.

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Honored Social Butterfly

Republicans will NEVER act to save civilization because the GOPerLords are confident their vast wealth will keep them safe regardless of what happens to 99.99% of humanity.

 

Do we need to STOP pumping green house gases into the atmosphere? You bettcha! The pollution is wrecking our health RIGHT NOW - what do they think is causing so many more kids to suffer from respiratory problems? Just a year ago, the GOPerBase was ranting about there being NO EVIDENCE for rising sea levels but you don't hear THAT meme anymore because even to densest GOPerBot knows better.

 

And the Go Green or Go Home zealots on the left need to pull their heads out of the sand and accept we cannot solve the problem with wind, solar and hydro but we CAN with Nulcear. Converting coal fired plants to natural gas is good, but insufficient as NG produces green house gases - Nukes do NOT. Number of deaths from Nuclear power in the US over the last 30 years - ZERO!. Number from mining and burning coal - 39,000 and counting.

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Honored Social Butterfly

Climate Change / It's apocalyptic.

 

How Australia’s massive bushfires are generating thunderstorms

 

Big natural disasters can create their own weather systems. The Australian bushfires are now so intense that they’re starting to make thunderstorms.

 

On Jan. 3, Australia’s meteorology bureau issued a severe thunderstorm warning for East Gippsland in Victoria. The thunderstorm condition is also happening in New South Wales, another state with intense fires and smoke.

 

The bureau explained the formation of fire-generated thunderstorms on social media:

 

Essentially, when hot air and smoke from bushfires rises and meets cool air from the atmosphere, it turns into pyrocumulus clouds, also known as “fire clouds.” These rare and dangerous clouds form fast and move quickly, creating gusty winds and thunderstorms.

 

The thunderstorms can lead to two atmospheric events that could quickly damage a large area: downbursts and lightning.

 

In the event of a downburst, the cooling wind can travel as fast as 170 miles per hour (270 km/h), knocking over fully grown trees. In the rare case when there might be water vapors in the air, it could cause a “rain bomb.” And if lightning occurs, the initial fire could spread quickly to other areas.

 

The pyrocumulus clouds in southeastern Australia are visible from the time-lapse video captured by satellites before the thunderstorms hit:

 

As global temperatures rise, pyrocumulus clouds may become more common. A similar fire-induced weather system took place during California’s wildfire season in 2018. The state’s hilly terrain created perfect conditions for not only thunderstorms, but fire tornadoes. An unprecedented number of wildfires in north Russia and the Arctic Circle in the summer of 2019, as captured by satellite images, contributed to an increase in lightning strikes in the North Pole.

 

Comment :

 

Nightmare on live TV,  climate change, drought, fires, high winds that spread the fires, and then lighting strikes that start new fires. 

 

As seen from space. 

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Honored Social Butterfly

Climate Change / It's apocalyptic.

 

When discussing climate change the point is to observe  the interaction between the climate, living things, and human activity and how it affects the climate and therefore all living things.

 

If humans were not on the planet, or if the number of humans were so small it didn't really make a difference then who cares about how human activity affects the climate, it doesn't.

 

Take Venus for example, does anyone really care about how a runaway greenhouse effect transformed Venus?

 

We've had snowball earth in the past, were all life was reduced to the level of bacteria, but life recovered to what it is today.

 

The Earth has changed in the past and life adapted, but took billions or millions of years. Climate change can and has happened in a few hundred years, life can't evolve to adapt in that time frame. This affects where and how we live now and in the near future. 

 

 

The point is not that climate has or can change on it's own, the point is how living things are affected by and adapt to that change.

 

There is no question about how greenhouse gases work or where they come from, or the effect they have.

 

The question is what we as humans are going to do about it.  Some say enjoy life, I'll be dead before the worst happens, unless of course you live in Australia, where it's happening now.

 

Some say if you want less carbon then tax it and use the money raised to remove carbon and recycle it or sequester it.

 

Some  say conserve, use less energy, drive smaller cars, use electric cars, use mass transit,  live in smaller and better insulated homes. 

 

Some say plant trees and other plants, like sea grass or kelp to consume carbon.

 

Some say use nuclear power,  solar power, or wind to get away from fossil fuels.

 

The thing is, we don't have a lot of time, you can't grow trees if it doesn't rain, sea grass and kelp die if it gets to warm, nuclear power plants take time to design and build. 

 

If we don't plan to deal with this problem, we are planing to fail when dealing with this problem.

 

What we can do quickly is to change building codes for smaller and better insulated homes. A carbon tax on fossil fuels, install even more solar and wind then we are now. Plant trees and sea grass. Clean up watersheds and restore the sea grass in bays and rivers.

 

Did you know that sea grass is as productive at removing carbon as a rain forest?  

 

There are things we can do about it now, things that will save us money, things that will improve where we live now, but we have to act quickly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Social Butterfly

CO2 is a fact. You just exhaled CO2. You just did it again. CO2 is a greenhouse gas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

 

Human activities since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution (around 1750) have produced a 45% increase in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, from 280 ppm in 1750 to 415 ppm in 2019.

 

You want proof? You are actually going to have click on the links provided or copy/paste what you don't believe into a search engine and read the results.

 

Your opinion and facts are not interchageable. Saying humans can't change climate is ridiculous. Show me 1 scientific study that supports that position. Not opinions.

 

Scientific studies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

 

There are not 2 sides to every argument. There is no argument to be made that the earth is flat. You do not need to respect the opinion of someone who says the earth is flat anymore tham you would believe a child about Santa Clause. You nod your head. You say you find the concept interesting and you respectfully walk away. You cannot reason with the delusional. You cannot employ logic against with those who refuse to follow logic. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Honored Social Butterfly

Climate zealots can't be wrong. The very fact that most if not all have no science or engineering background means they will ape what "fits" their false narrative. That is called stupid. They are hardheaded and will never see anything different than what they believe is true, regardless of facts. 

 

Next is the climate political activist. Their views of climate is bound to the paradigm of politics and anti Trump behavior. We see it here all the time. Again, very little or no pertinent education regarding such matters. 

 

Then we have climate stubbornness, which is OK. Those folks state their position and say prove to me I'm wrong. They listen, weigh the facts, check on things and if they're wrong and know it, they generally go silent, but are still listening and LEARNING. 

 

Being patient, listening, reading, knowing,  leaning isn't a definition of a climate denier. 

If you have some backround, any backround regarding climate and the engineering and sciences that are at work... please say so. Your input is valuble. If you cut and paste opinion pieces, bias science aped from CNN... well you know, ... is that rock heavy?


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Social Butterfly


@Fishslayer777 wrote:

Climate zealots can't be wrong. The very fact that most if not all have no science or engineering background means they will ape what "fits" their false narrative. That is called stupid. They are hardheaded and will never see anything different than what they believe is true, regardless of facts. 

 

Next is the climate political activist. Their views of climate is bound to the paradigm of politics and anti Trump behavior. We see it here all the time. Again, very little or no pertinent education regarding such matters. 

 

Then we have climate stubbornness, which is OK. Those folks state their position and say prove to me I'm wrong. They listen, weigh the facts, check on things and if they're wrong and know it, they generally go silent, but are still listening and LEARNING. 

 

Being patient, listening, reading, knowing,  leaning isn't a definition of a climate denier. 

If you have some backround, any backround regarding climate and the engineering and sciences that are at work... please say so. Your input is valuble. If you cut and paste opinion pieces, bias science aped from CNN... well you know, ... is that rock heavy?


CO2 is a fact. You just exhaled CO2. You just did it again.

 

NASA understands climate change is a fact. Here is a scientific study backing them up. https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/24/graphic-the-relentless-rise-of-carbon-dioxide/  

 

Where's your science? Where are your facts?

 

Your entire post was your opinion. I already know your opinion. Support it with facts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly

I have repeatedly outlined how to move into the future on energy. Used facts. Used tried and true practices. Used history. Used UN climate advocates. used personal work experiences. Acceptance is difficult when you're a climate zealot.

I do not argue numbers, and I understand CO2 coming from the utility industry. My contention is we must deal with economic, technological, and psychological realities to move forward.

We are not at a tipping point of no return in 12, er um... 10 years. That's a lie by a zealot to promote government/political control over science.


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Honored Social Butterfly

you mean the way our current government has its own control on science, by DENYING it???!!!! Now thats what I call government control. To DENY the science and the facts, OOOPSSS!!!!
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@Tom5678 wrote:
you mean the way our current government has its own control on science, by DENYING it???!!!! Now thats what I call government control. To DENY the science and the facts, OOOPSSS!!!!

Tom you're not paying attention. You're not learning. You're just spewing nonsense without observing, NASA  and NOAA data is being used right here in this thread, to support climate activists here... and both those agencies are under the direction of the "government". Really? 

 

You're making yourself irrelevant by hoping something will stick. It's not.


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Honored Social Butterfly

It sticks to those who read about climate change and both know and accept the fact that is is real, and we are warming very rapidly! Just last week here where I am, we were 25 degrees above normal! WE have had very little snow this year. Too warm. Go figure.
Honored Social Butterfly

That's called weather Tom. ... there's a difference.

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Honored Social Butterfly

our warming climate is drastically altering our weather, and that is a FACT!
Honored Social Butterfly

@Tom5678 

Hang in there Tom! You're correct. 
trump and his supporters always tell us why we cannot do something, even when we bring forward why we should, or why we need to!

It almost sounds like they are saying that clean energy will ruin our country...

just like immigration will ruin our country...common themes?

We use to be a great Counrty...like win Wars and go to the Moon...but now they want to support dictators, and give the wealthy more money...hardly greatness, and lacks honor or common sense!

Honored Social Butterfly

I will always hang in there william, no matter how many Trump cult deniers I chat with on here every day.
Honored Social Butterfly

Sorry Tom... the label climate "denier" doesn't apply to me. I open to data and facts that include numbers, not hyperbole.  Climate is studied over a milenium... thousands of years, weather is observed and recorded over hundreds of years. 

 

They're related like you are to Adam and Eve. 

 

The best place to study climate in Greenland... not your back yard. 


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Honored Social Butterfly

Your missing the whole story Tom... you're looking at weather related data. But good for you... keep studying.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@Fishslayer777 wrote:
Your missing the whole story Tom... you're looking at weather related data. But good for you... keep studying.

Actually, weather is simply the byproduct of man made global climate change.  The atmosphere heats a degree or two over a space as big as a planet and it produces the kind of abnormalities we are seeing in today's environment.  I started noticing it with the beetle population decimating timber where they used to be destroyed by cold.  Now we see glaciers and ice sheets melting at unprecedented rates. 

 

No, this is not just an odd weather occurrence.  This is the impact of man made climate change and it is happening as predicted.  

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Esteemed Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:
Your missing the whole story Tom... you're looking at weather related data. But good for you... keep studying.

Actually, weather is simply the byproduct of man made global climate change. 


A byproduct? So there was no weather prior to "man made global climate change"?

Honored Social Butterfly


@jfpinlvn wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:
Your missing the whole story Tom... you're looking at weather related data. But good for you... keep studying.

Actually, weather is simply the byproduct of man made global climate change. 


A byproduct? So there was no weather prior to "man made global climate change"?


In the context Fish was using the term...yes. 

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@Richva wrote:

@jfpinlvn wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:
Your missing the whole story Tom... you're looking at weather related data. But good for you... keep studying.

Actually, weather is simply the byproduct of man made global climate change. 


A byproduct? So there was no weather prior to "man made global climate change"?


In the context Fish was using the term...yes. 


Manufactured truth. Take out fact, your left with manure. 


Libs are nuttier than squirrel poop
Honored Social Butterfly

 

 

climate change chart.jpg

 

 

climate hoax.jpg

 

Honored Social Butterfly


@gordyfl wrote:

 

 

climate change chart.jpg

 

 

climate hoax.jpg

 


Typical Denier. Great cartoon, speaks volumes.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

President Trump did not commit "climate genocide" like most of you demolibs want to sell. 

 

1880 to 2019 is recorded WEATHER data.  Again...  to my hardheaded climate zealots... climate is studied over millennium, weather is studied over hundreds of years. 

 

Try looking at data over 10K years and note the warming and cooling trends and the associated levels of CO2. Civilizations grow during warming cycles and regressive during cooling cycles.  

 

You can lead a dem to water, but can't make them think.


Libs are nuttier than squirrel poop
Recognized Social Butterfly


@Fishslayer777 wrote:

President Trump did not commit "climate genocide" like most of you demolibs want to sell. 

 

1880 to 2019 is recorded WEATHER data.  Again...  to my hardheaded climate zealots... climate is studied over millennium, weather is studied over hundreds of years. 

 

Try looking at data over 10K years and note the warming and cooling trends and the associated levels of CO2. Civilizations grow during warming cycles and regressive during cooling cycles.  

 

You can lead a dem to water, but can't make them think.


That is a misleading statement.  For 800,000 years the earths CO2 was between 180 and 290 PPM.  For the last 10,000 years before the Industrial Revolution it hovered between 260 and 280 PPM.  It is now over 400 PPM and has overwhelmed the Earth's ability to naturally remove it.  What effects do you think this extra greenhouse gas are causing?

As far as Trump, you are correct he did not start climate change.  He also done nothing to mitigate it.  In fact his insistence on helping burn more coal will aggravate it.

Honored Social Butterfly


@sp362 wrote:

@Fishslayer777 wrote:

President Trump did not commit "climate genocide" like most of you demolibs want to sell. 

 

1880 to 2019 is recorded WEATHER data.  Again...  to my hardheaded climate zealots... climate is studied over millennium, weather is studied over hundreds of years. 

 

Try looking at data over 10K years and note the warming and cooling trends and the associated levels of CO2. Civilizations grow during warming cycles and regressive during cooling cycles.  

 

You can lead a dem to water, but can't make them think.


That is a misleading statement.  For 800,000 years the earths CO2 was between 180 and 290 PPM.  For the last 10,000 years before the Industrial Revolution it hovered between 260 and 280 PPM.  It is now over 400 PPM and has overwhelmed the Earth's ability to naturally remove it.  What effects do you think this extra greenhouse gas are causing?

As far as Trump, you are correct he did not start climate change.  He also done nothing to mitigate it.  In fact his insistence on helping burn more coal will aggravate it.


 

 

I don't disagree human consumption of fossil fuels are leading to higher levels of CO2. I do not agree the CO2 has crossed some imaginary threshold of no return.  

 

Clean coal is real. The electric utility I worked for had such a plant. Rapid switch to NG and nuclear is our ONLY viable option RIGHT now. That is a pragmatic view. As we transition to better energy sources,  we can continue to move towards less CO2 with new technologies and energy sources. 

 

We WILL NOT regress civilizations and plunder the economies of the world for the green new deal. That is insane and WILL NOT happen.


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