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Honored Social Butterfly

COULD THEY HAVE BEEN MORE INCLUSIVE?

Historically, the Democratic Party has been more inclusive than the Republican Party. That is why most Jews are Democrats.

 

That is why I was so surprised and rather concerned that the minister conducting the opening prayer prior to the commencement of the Democratic Convention prayed in the name of JESUS CHRIST.

 

This said to me, at least, that those that do not pray in his name were not considered at all.

 

 

NO! IT'S CONSERVATIVES THAT ARE NUTTIER THAN SQUIRREL POOP!
Silver Conversationalist

Your knowledge of Christianity, your defense of the use of Jesus's name in the invocation, and the use of appropriate excerpts from the NEW TESTAMENT had me believing that you were both a scholar and believer in the Christian faith.

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Ten years of parochial school. Mass every Sunday. Baptism, Confession, Communion, Confirmation. Ash Wednesdays, Palm Sundays, Stations of the Cross. I attended Mass in English, Polish, Spanish, and Latin. In the late 60s and early 70s we had guitar Mass:

 

"Allelu, allelu, everybody sing allelu

For the Lord has risen, it is true!

Everybody sing allelu!"

 

They were fun.

 

Then I read the Bible. All of it, even all the begats that almost drove me nuts. Luckily, back then all we had was the KJV, pure poetry in many places. Now there seem to be endless versions. I don't like any of the new ones.

 

Then my problems started: First, it was the death penalty fanatics in the Bible Belt states. What kind of sense does that make? They carry those "An eye for an eye" signs. That quote is originally from Hammurabi's Code. A set of laws instituted by a Mesopotamian king 500 years before the Old Testament. To the best of my knowledge, there are NO Christians in the Old Testament.

 

On the other hand, Jesus says, in Matthew 5:

 

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

This is Christianity the way I understand it. How you can be a Christian and for the death penalty is beyond me.

 

Then there piled up a bunch of things that didn't make sense until I stopped believing. It was a struggle.

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They not only thought it was inappropriate for the minister to pray in Jesus's name; they thought any reference to a Supreme Being (God) and anyone or anything connected thereof to a Supreme Being was inappropriate.

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What are they talking about? Every incoming Congress opens with prayers. Congress has chaplains of every denomination. Our money says "In God We Trust." The Pledge of Allegiance says "One Nation Under God." They have a problem with, "In Jesus' name we pray?" Makes no sense. Especially when Jewish and Muslim clergy give invocations as well.

 

 

 

 

 

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Donald Trump
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Silver Conversationalist

That you asked only a priest's opinion rather than a Rabbi or a Imam or a Buddhist Monk's opinion is but further evidence that many believe their faith to be the only one and true faith without regard to others that may not adhere to that faith.

-----------------------------------------

Congratulations, you're 4 for 4.

Of course I asked a priest to correct me if I was wrong about a Christian invocation. Duh.

 

And it's not because my faith is the only true faith: I'm an avowed atheist for almost 2 decades now.

 

This conversation is academic because:

 

 Others on the schedule, according to The Associated Press, include Rabbi Lauren Berkun, vice president of the Shalom Hartman Institute or North America; Archbishop Elpidophoros, of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America; Imam Al-Hajj Talib ‘Abdur-Rashid, a Muslim social justice activist in New York; the Rev. Gabriel Salguero, founder of the National Latino Evangelical Coalition; and the Rev. Jerry Young of New Hope Baptist Church in Jackson, Mississippi.

 

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly


@Loulit wrote:

 

I'm an avowed atheist for almost 2 decades now.

 


I am surprised that you are an atheist as you noted in your post.

 

Your knowledge of Christianity, your defense of the use of Jesus's name in the invocation, and the use of appropriate excerpts from the NEW TESTAMENT had me believing that you were both a scholar and believer in the Christian faith.

 

I have many atheist friends and a poll of them on this subject garnered me the following results.

 

They not only thought it was inappropriate for the minister to pray in Jesus's name; they thought any reference to a Supreme Being (God) and anyone or anything connected thereof to a Supreme Being was inappropriate.

NO! IT'S CONSERVATIVES THAT ARE NUTTIER THAN SQUIRREL POOP!
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Honored Social Butterfly


@nctarheel wrote:

@Loulit wrote:

 

I'm an avowed atheist for almost 2 decades now.

 


I am surprised that you are an atheist as you noted in your post.

 

Your knowledge of Christianity, your defense of the use of Jesus's name in the invocation, and the use of appropriate excerpts from the NEW TESTAMENT had me believing that you were both a scholar and believer in the Christian faith.

 

I have many atheist friends and a poll of them on this subject garnered me the following results.

 

They not only thought it was inappropriate for the minister to pray in Jesus's name; they thought any reference to a Supreme Being (God) and anyone or anything connected thereof to a Supreme Being was inappropriate.


Oh for goodness sakes, get over it !

 

The Democratic Party has people of all faiths, and also atheists.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

I found that a little weird too, but I am used to different faith leaders giving nondenominational invocations at political events.   I wonder if there will be faith leaders from other religions in the upcoming days?  

Silver Conversationalist

Rather than a discussion where both points of view can be discussed, your rebuttal is that when Christians pray, regardless of who they are leading in prayer, they must mention Jesus's name.

 

You are basically saying it is "your way or the highway

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In this thread you've fundamentally misunderstood Christianity, The Democratic Party and now my post. You are 3 for 3. If you post again you can go 4 for 4. Good luck!

 

 

 

 

Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.
Donald Trump
Silver Conversationalist

Did I once read our friend PanJ is a priest? If so, will you kindly enlighten with your learned opinion?

 

 

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly


@Loulit wrote:

Did I once read our friend PanJ is a priest? If so, will you kindly enlighten with your learned opinion?

 


That you asked only a priest's opinion rather than a Rabbi or a Imam or a Buddhist Monk's opinion is but further evidence that many believe their faith to be the only one and true faith without regard to others that may not adhere to that faith.

NO! IT'S CONSERVATIVES THAT ARE NUTTIER THAN SQUIRREL POOP!
Contributor

You know, you make a good point.  However, the minister was probably saying what he has said a million times before, and was not checked by the people who invited him or her (I did not see it) to speak.  So let's call it an error and assume (I hope we can assume) that the speaker was being inclusive.  

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Silver Conversationalist

  • John 14:13
     – And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
  • John 14:14
     – If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
  • John 15:16
     – Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
  • John 16:23
     – And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
  • John 16:24
     – Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
  • John 16:26
     – At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you.

 

In the Bible Christians are taught to pray to God through Jesus. They do not pray to Jesus, but only to God the Father. If Christians are praying for Buddhists or Jews or Muslims or atheists, they will pray for them in Jesus' name.

 

Democrats had a Christian minister open the convention today. Tomorrow it may be a Jewish Rabbi  or a Muslim Imam. To say that only those who pray in the name of Jesus are considered by the Democratic Party is to fundamentally misunderstand both Christianity and the Democratic Party.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Honored Social Butterfly


@Loulit wrote:
  • John 14:13
     – And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
  • John 14:14
     – If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
  • John 15:16
     – Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
  • John 16:23
     – And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
  • John 16:24
     – Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
  • John 16:26
     – At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you.

 

In the Bible Christians are taught to pray to God through Jesus. They do not pray to Jesus, but only to God the Father. If Christians are praying for Buddhists or Jews or Muslims or atheists, they will pray for them in Jesus' name.

 

Democrats had a Christian minister open the convention today. Tomorrow it may be a Jewish Rabbi  or a Muslim Imam. To say that only those who pray in the name of Jesus are considered by the Democratic Party is to fundamentally misunderstand both Christianity and the Democratic Party.

 

 


First of all, I nowhere said that Christians pray TO Jesus. Nor did I say that the Democratic Party considers only those that pray in Jesus's name.

 

My singular point was that in an all inclusive Political Party, one must remind themselves that everyone is NOT A CHRISTIAN.

 

Your multiple quotes from THE NEW TESTAMENT is exactly what I am talking about.

 

Rather than a discussion where both points of view can be discussed, your rebuttal is that when Christians pray, regardless of who they are leading in prayer, they must mention Jesus's name.

 

You are basically saying it is "your way or the highway".

 

I know that not to be the case. I have been to plenty of large gatherings that opened with prayer, led by ministers of the Christian faith, where they used God, Lord, or other closings besides Jesus thus enabling those of all faiths to join in the prayer in its entirety.

 

 

NO! IT'S CONSERVATIVES THAT ARE NUTTIER THAN SQUIRREL POOP!
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