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CONFEDERATE FLAG IS A SYMBOL OF TREASON!

CONFEDERATE FLAG IS A SYMBOL OF TREASON!

 

Reed Galen, co-founder of The Lincoln Project said, “The Confederate flag is a symbol of slavery and disunion. Its history is one of sowing division and oppression. Those who fly it proudly are celebrating the legacy of American slavery, the wrongful, and violent insurrection that followed, and the oppressive Jim Crow regime that came into power in many states.”

No patriotic American should brandish or proudly celebrate the iconography of a rebellion that resulted in tremendous devastation, the loss of more than 620,000 American lives, and the continued subjugation of Black America,” Galen continued. “Our namesake, Abraham Lincoln fought to preserve the Union. The Lincoln Project will do the same during the course of this campaign.”

 

President Trump’s co-opting of the Confederate Flag and relationships with known white nationalists like Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon and David Duke shows his true beliefs. His blatant racism, dog whistles and disinterest in unifying the country, particularly in recent days following the death of George Floyd, show just how far he is willing to go to stoke fear, incite violence, and ensure the country descends into further chaos up to the election.

 

John Weaver said: “Come this November, we’ll make sure Donald Trump and MAGA join the Confederacy as another group of failures history never forgets.”

 

https://lincolnproject.us/news/flag-of-treason/

Silver Conversationalist

 Unlike those who are so dogmatic in their posts and feel their views are paramount to others.

---------------------------

My bad. I forgot that everyone should get a trophy for just participating. Right and wrong, truth and lies are abandoned concepts  Words may now mean whatever you want them to mean. Symbols no longer represent what was originally intended. And God forbid you dare to see an issue as black and white rather than shades of gray.

 

We have a ridiculous belief there are two sides to every argument. Sorry, there is no argument to be made for gloryfing people who fought and died for a republic dedicated to the preservation of its "peculiar institution.

 

Luckily generations following the Baby Boomers are proving they're not buying what the Christopher Columbus/Robert E. Lee Worship Societies are selling. Get used to it.

 

 

 

 

Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.
Donald Trump
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Honored Social Butterfly

Group thinkers of the cancel culture often lose their 'voice' when all they do is mimic CNN talking points. The brain needs exercise or it will atrophy ... and no,  you don't get "a trophy'. 

 

 


Libs are nuttier than squirrel poop
Honored Social Butterfly


@Loulit wrote:

 

My bad. I forgot that everyone should get a trophy for just participating. Right and wrong, truth and lies are abandoned concepts  Words may now mean whatever you want them to mean. Symbols no longer represent what was originally intended. And God forbid you dare to see an issue as black and white rather than shades of gray.

 

We have a ridiculous belief there are two sides to every argument. Sorry, there is no argument to be made for gloryfing people who fought and died for a republic dedicated to the preservation of its "peculiar institution.

 


No one is stopping you from posting your opinion...even if it is all wrong.

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In Trump's All White Republican Party, many are still fighting the Civil War 155 years after it ended. Maybe they don't understand that it's a symbol of both extreme racism and treason, they don't care, or they support extreme racism and treason. The latter would not surprise me because the number one reason Trump's supporters worship the ground he walks on, is they see him as a symbol and defender of white authority/power.

Silver Conversationalist

The ACLU defends the right of the Klan, neo-Nazis, alt-right militias, and other hate organizations to stage their rallies, fly their flags, speak their minds, burn their crosses and otherwise carry on with their reprehensible agendas.

 

For this they are frequently attacked by liberals.

 

Current positions of the ACLU include: opposing the death penalty; supporting same-sex marriage and the right of LGBT people to adopt; supporting birth control and abortion rights; eliminating discrimination against women, minorities, and LGBT people;

(Wiki)

 

For this they are often demonized by conservatives.

 

This happens because the ACLU defends the rights constitutionally guaranteed to everyone. The Bill of Rights exists to protect unpopular opinions and unpopular causes: the American Communist Party, Nazis, anarchists, the homeless, convicted criminals in prisons, children, atheists, Satanists, Zionists, anti-Zionists, white supremacists, the Nation of Islam, and on and on. This ensures there will always be people across the political spectrum who despise the ACLU. They don't mind. They consider it the price of doing the right thing. I agree. I am a member of the ACLU and donate monthly.

 

Advocating the removal of Confederate statues and rebel flags from government property is not the same as taking away your right to your heritage.

 

There are over 60,000 books about the Civil War. Movies, documentaries and TV series abound. Not to mention Ken Burns. Removing monuments does not mean we're denying our history.

 

You have the right to fly the rebel flag. You want statues of Stonewall Jackson, J.E.B Stuart and Robert E. Lee? Feel free to erect them on your property and have busts of their heads in your homes. No one is denying you the right to your heritage. We are denying the government's right to glorify that heritage. Get used to it.

 

 

 

Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.
Donald Trump
Honored Social Butterfly

Symbols mean different things to different people at different times.  The  Flag wa created to help differentiate Confederate troop positions as the official flag of the Confederacy was too similar to the flag of the United States.  Then, the KKK and White Supremacists took it over to show their protests of anything relating to civil rights. No one considered that, to blacks,  it was the symbol of selling children.  

 

Now we know better.  It will say much about America what we do with that knowledge. 

Honored Social Butterfly

@Richva 

 

There does seem to be a lot of people here and in society at large - both white and black - that know little history of the Confederacy FlagS - There were many of them.  The one that we are talking about here - wasn't even flown during the Civil War, in fact, it didn't even come about until after the War - a long time after.

 

The Confederacy seemed to be rather bad at flag design - thus they kept changing it for one reason or another - which had more to do with battles and war fighting, i.e. - not being moving targets - than anything with a slavery reason.  The progression in pictures from ( also documented elsewhere): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America 

 

Screenshot_2020-07-10 Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia.png

 

Screenshot_2020-07-10 Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia(1).png

 

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Screenshot_2020-07-10 Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia(3).png

The 2nd one was on an all white background - guess you might comprehend why an all white background wasn't good for a battle - too much white and the opponents might think you are surrendering.

________________________________________________________________________

The 3rd one - added the red bar to depict all the blood that was being lost

Third Flag - " Blood-Stained Banner"  ( 1865 -       )

 

Screenshot_2020-07-10 Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia(2).png

 

Screenshot_2020-07-10 Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia(4).png

 Despite the passage of the Flag Act of 1865 by the Confederacy, very few of these third national flags were actually manufactured and put into use in the field, with many Confederates never seeing the flag.

In fact, there were even others because "states rights" didn't end with the joining into the Confederacy - every state wanted their own flag too and even regiments or branches within a state.

 

Screenshot_2020-07-10 Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia(5).png

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So now we get down to the "one" that has all the controversy -

Though never having historically represented the Confederate States of America as a country, nor having been officially recognized as one of its national flags, the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia and its variants are now flag types commonly referred to as the Confederate Flag. This design has become a widely recognized symbol of the Southern United States, racism, segregation, etc. - however one seems to view it.   It has been used by Southern Universities, their football teams, to instill that Southern rivalry, by various political parties (Dixiecrats) through the years, or just to label a Southerner.

 

It is also known as the rebel flag, Dixie flag, and Southern cross. It is sometimes incorrectly referred to as the Stars and Bars, the name of the first national Confederate flag. The "rebel flag" is a highly divisive and polarizing symbol in the United States. 

 

A Politico-Morning Consult poll of June 2020 shows that 44% view it as a symbol of Southern pride while 36% say it is a symbol of racism.

Screenshot_2020-07-10 Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia(7).png

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Groups love to have a flag of their own.  Sometimes they aren't creative enough to design one of their own.

 

Somewhere in history, us "Southerners" got sold a bill of goods as to this flag's importance - it had and has little to do with the Civil War - just everything else.  Perhaps we need to go back to the "Blood-Stained" 3rd flag of the Confederate States of America (1865)  and add something representative  for black Americans in the red bar - the "blood-stained" part.

Screenshot_2020-07-10 Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia(2).png

 

perhaps this:

Screenshot_2020-07-10 black fist symbol - Google Search(1).png

 or this:

Screenshot_2020-07-10 black fist symbol - Google Search(2).png

 

 

 

 

Honored Social Butterfly

The raised fist reminds me of the NAZI salute.

 

 

 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

The raised fist reminds me of the NAZI salute.

 

 

 


A "raised fist" is not similar to a Nazi salute but the actual Nazi salute is very similar to what is seen at most tRump rallies:

 

heil-hitler-3a.jpg

 


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

The raised fist reminds me of the NAZI salute.

 

 

 


A "raised fist" is not similar to a Nazi salute but the actual Nazi salute is very similar to what is seen at most tRump rallies:

 

heil-hitler-3a.jpg

 


This is not about your corruption of Trump's name, nor about him.  To some everything is about politics and their posts are similar to Bush's frequent references to "9 eleven" in most every speech regardless of the subject.

 

 

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Liberals are all about "independent thought" - refusal to accept the status quo (which is tragically still racist and sexist) is a perfect example.

 

It is the neo-Conservative movement that quashes all thought that deviates from their dogma and the origin of terms like RINO for anyone in the GOP who wants racial equality or Women's Rights or fair taxation or equal justice under the law.

 

Think about it - Which party has intense INTERNAL debate on sexual orientation, Women's right to control their reproductive lives,  solutions to pollution and climate change, taxation, etc etc. (HINT: it is NOT the GOP)

 

All the GOP has been concerned with is how to most rapidly redistribute wealth and income from the bottom 90% to the top 10% so most of it goes to the top 1%.

 

GOPers do not debate, they just state the dogma:  climate change? - its a hoax. Open elections? - its a fraud.  Social Security? It's a Commie Plot.  Tax cuts for the bottom 90%? No way - they don't know how to invest for a brighter future, so give it to the Uberrich and it will dribble down to the bottom. Monuments to racist Traitors? Its HERITAGE!

 

If anyone has an example of an actual DEBATE within the GOP about their agenda, please post your examples.

Honored Social Butterfly


@Olderscout66 wrote:

 

 

If anyone has an example of an actual DEBATE within the GOP about their agenda, please post your examples.


Then why don't they encourage it instead of being dogmatic in their posts.  Not everyone is not 'within the GOP' but some of us are independent and have views of our own.  Unlike those who are so dogmatic in their posts and feel their views are paramount to others.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

The raised fist reminds me of the NAZI salute.

 

 

 


A "raised fist" is not similar to a Nazi salute but the actual Nazi salute is very similar to what is seen at most tRump rallies:

 

heil-hitler-3a.jpg

 


This is not about your corruption of Trump's name, nor about him.  To some everything is about politics and their posts are similar to Bush's frequent references to "9 eleven" in most every speech regardless of the subject.

 

 


Doesn't matter if I mentioned tRump or tRump supporters or not ........ the Nazi salute is not similar to the "closed fist".  The Nazi salute is with an open hand as shown in the photo I offered.   I brought up trump rallies to show that the Nazi salute is just like the "salutes" seen at trump rallies, nothing like the "closed fist" you referenced as reminding you of a Nazi salute.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@ChasKy53 wrote:


........ the Nazi salute is not similar to the "closed fist".  .


The raised arm is similar even with the closed fist.  Every time I see it newsreels I recall from World War II about the NAZIs comes to mind.   And Trump has nothing to do with this discussion.   Do you really think that you could persuade anyone to your thinking or manner of posts?  

 

Bye now 'pardner'.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:


........ the Nazi salute is not similar to the "closed fist".  .


The raised arm is similar even with the closed fist.  Every time I see it newsreels I recall from World War II about the NAZIs comes to mind.   And Trump has nothing to do with this discussion.   Do you really think that you could persuade anyone to your thinking or manner of posts?  

 

Bye now 'pardner'.


A Nazi salute is not made with a closed fist, it is with an open hand and yes, it is the way trump supporters salute trump at his rallies

 

Bye now "pardner".


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

Back in the 1920's, the raised fist was the salute of ANTI-FASCISTS ANTI-NAZIS. That is, it represented the antithesis of Nazi thought. It was also used by the early Unionist Labor Organizers to demonstrate solidarity against the Corporate Oligarchs of the day.

 

In the 1960's a raised fist in a black glove became a symbol of ANTI-RACISM, definitly in the spirit of "we're mad as he**, and we're not going to take it anymore!" and never "Eine Volk, Eine Fuhrer", which IS very close to the spirit of tRumpism.

 

Today it continues as a symbol of ANTI-Racism and Worker Solidarity against Corporate Oligarchs. Not a Nazi in sight, no matter what morally myopic wingers may claim to "see".

 

Toad Worshipers need to get over the notion that anything apposing your Toad is Nazi or Commie (really need to pick one - they are NOT identical as many RWers insist.)

Honored Social Butterfly


@Olderscout66 wrote:

 

Toad Worshipers need to get over the notion that anything apposing your Toad is Nazi or Commie (really need to pick one - they are NOT identical as many RWers insist.)

 


Toad is a common name for certain frogs, especially of the family Bufonidae, that are characterized by dry, leathery skin, short legs, and large bumps covering the parotoid glands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toad 

 

Frankly I would believe that Toad worshippers has a problem.  What sort of religion would stoop to worship a common member of the Bufonidae family.  But apparently there are some here who is so fascinated with them that they keep bringing them up in political discussions.

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Flying a Confederate battle flag is not illegal and it shouldn't be. The 1st Amendment is an iron-clad guarantee of your right to fly it or paint on the roof of your car if you like. No one can take that away from you.  And I, for one, will stand up for a citizen's right to fly that flag.

 

The 1st Amendment does not protect the federal government, or the governments of the individual states, right to fly it. You want it to fly over your statehouse write your governor and your representative in your state legislature. If it is the will of the people it will fly. Take a look around. This is not the will of the people. When NASCAR bans it and Mississippi takes it down, the people want it it down.

 

You may disagree. You have the right to your opinion. But nowhere is it written that flag should be flown over government property.

 

 

 

 

Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.
Donald Trump
Honored Social Butterfly

The only people flying the Stars and Bars do so to proclaim White supremacy. How do I know what people are thinking? Same way I know people flying a Swastika are proclaiming racial superiority and anti-semitism - THAT'S WHAT THE FLAG WAS AND IS ALL ABOUT.

 

Seems once again some people are being convinced the Civil War was about something other than slavery. While I'm sure a great many Rebel troops believed they were protecting themselves and their families from Northern Aggression, that is simply and irrefutably untrue. Were it not for the total commitment to continue and expand slavery on the part of the Confederate LEADERSHIP, there would've been NO WAR. Union Raiders did NOT fire on Fort Sumner.

 

Yes the First Amendment gives people a RIGHT to fly a Confederate or Nazi Flag, the RIGHT is to protect FREE SPEECH not to deny the true significance of either flag. In short, it is LEGAL to be a racist bigot in America, but it is also legal to point out that using your free speech to promote White Supremacy is morally reprehensible.

Honored Social Butterfly


@Olderscout66 wrote:

 

"believed they were protecting themselves and their families from Northern Aggression, that is simply and irrefutably untrue."


It is apparent that you are not a student of history.  In fact I have to wonder what makes you such an authority on the Civil War.  Doubtful you grew up in the areas where it caused such devastation.  If anyone is ignoring history of both sides, and is so opinionated, your posts represent that.

 

I grew up among older folks that heard first hand of the effects on our area from their parents.  And the economic effects was still around.  Basically what you are continually posting is all your own opinion without any basis.  I also get the idea that you are not from the south and have no idea of the people there.

 

I have to wonder why you hate the region so.

 

 

 

 

 

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Recognizing the Confederate flag as part of our history is one thing. BUT ....... honoring it  is something completely different and simply unacceptable. It represents the desire to continue owning slaves and the treason that was committed by those who joined the Confederacy.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:

 

honoring it  is something completely different and simply unacceptable. 


I would believe that the only ones that use it for ulterior purposes is the hate group.  From what I observe, it is the liberal element who keeps making noise regarding not only that flag.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

 

honoring it  is something completely different and simply unacceptable. 


I would believe that the only ones that use it for ulterior purposes is the hate group.  From what I observe, it is the liberal element who keeps making noise regarding not only that flag.


Well, from what I have observed, the Confederate flag is flown on pickup trucks driven by redneck racist butt heads in the state of Kentucky where I live (and elsewhere).  They use is as a statement of hate and racism.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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Silver Conversationalist

 

"Our mission is to defeat Trump and Trumpism"

https://lincolnproject.us/

--------------------------------------------------

 

What a coincidence! That's my mission,too!

 

I was going to donate 100 bucks but they're still republicans so I'm sending $50.

 

 

 

 

Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.
Donald Trump
Honored Social Butterfly

Thought process.    Let's say, I was against the US seceding from England, do I now get to fly my flag with the same gusto as some who are making "reasons' to fly the Flag of Treason.  

 

Did the US prosecute any of those in the US at the time that they decided to secede from England.     

 

While I don't personally give two hoots if you fly your own flag of treason, the point is that most states in the deep south are in agreement, that they will no longer support the flying of said flag on the Federal Buildings in their State.   With that, many institutions and businesses have also agreed that the times and demographics have changed and in keeping up with those times,  denigrating a part of the majority-minority group is small minded and will come back to bite them in the behind.  

PRO-LIFE is Affordable Healthcare for ALL .
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@afisher wrote:

Thought process.    Let's say, I was against the US seceding from England, do I now get to fly my flag with the same gusto as some who are making "reasons' to fly the Flag of Treason.  

 

Did the US prosecute any of those in the US at the time that they decided to secede from England.     

 

 the point is that most states in the deep south are in agreement, that they will no longer support the flying of said flag on the Federal Buildings in their State.   


 

I would believe that there were multiple flags in support when the colonies declared their independence from England.   Of course there was no United States before the Constitution was ratified by the states, but why should the U.S. prosecute anyone flying your flag.

 

The states has no say in the flag flown on Federal Buildings as they are on federal property.  Do you also have a problem with our Texas flag?  

 

What law says that no one cannot fly the Confederate flag?  Or any flag?  .

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What law says that no one cannot fly the Confederate flag?  Or any flag?  .

 

Fly what  you will on your property, but just be aware the Stars and Bars is a symbol of TREASON AND RACISM, regardless of what YOU might want to convey.

If you're not a Nazi, would you fly a swastika?

If you do not support racism, why would you tell the World you do?

 

Honored Social Butterfly


@Olderscout66 wrote:

What law says that no one cannot fly the Confederate flag?  Or any flag?  .

 

Fly what  you will on your property, but just be aware the Stars and Bars is a symbol of TREASON AND RACISM, regardless of what YOU might want to convey.

If you're not a Nazi, would you fly a swastika?

If you do not support racism, why would you tell the World you do?

 


Of course it can mean different things to different people, but basically what you think of it and what others think are up to the individual.  I have never flown that flag, but I have nothing against others flying it if they wish.

 

There have been many comments here associated with negative regionalism that could be considered inflammatory designed to create dissension.  A majority in my opinion has no relationship to the topic under discussion.

 

Note that here most of these comments come from those of the liberal persuasion and non-toleration of other's opinions.  There is no doubt that it is part of the Southern heritage, but those continuing to bring it up forget that the region has moved on.  We are Americans first just like those in other regions.  

 

But apparently like our enemies abroad, some are using regionalism to divide.  I wonder about the motives of those who continually does so.  These are the enemies within that when taking the oath to enter the military was referring to.

 

  

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

  There is no doubt that it is part of the Southern heritage, but those continuing to bring it up forget that the region has moved on.  We are Americans first just like those in other regions.  

 


If the region has truly "moved on", then there is no need to embrace a relic of its past treasonous, racist history.

 

 

 

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
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