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Re: Big Bang Theory in the news

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Message 1 of 22

@Indianrock wrote:

"There are scientists exploring now whether the universe has a consciousness. "

 

Once I stopped laughing I thought ... consciousness of the universe? 

God?


Possible.   Who's to say our concept of God is the right one?  If science finds God, it will have to be through observable, measurable, testable, and repeatable means.   Not an easy task.   But there may be something similar to our concept of God that science can someday measure. 

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Re: Big Bang Theory in the news

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@alferdpacker wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:


Science tells/describes "what and how" - uses scientific measurements and mathematics - but does not deal with the supernaturality of "who" - because "who" cannot be measured or mathematically described.

 

Religion says it knows "who" - but has never been capable of using scientific measurements or mathematics to measure and describe "what and how"

 

Two descriptions of reality that esentially mutually exclude use of each other's language.

 

Couple that with the irrationality of human belief/insistence that only one can be the correct description...

 

The only possible conclusion is that nothing can be conclusively and irrefutably proved at this point in time.

 

If one is honest with oneself - one must admit that it is impossible to know for certain - one can only believe what one believes - and hope they are correct that what they believe is an accurate description of existence/reality... 

 

The current impasse exists because -

 

Science has questions the answer to which may not be possible to find.

Religion has answers that are not permitted to ever be questioned.

 


Alferd everthing that you have stated is a very logical explanation. and I guess that it comes down to the individual/
I rather think that there is a supreme being God, Nature whomever that had to do with all that surrounds us. 
It would be for me too boring to think that I was born, lived and will die and in reality was there a purporse. I puts me on equal footing with any animal. 
Why I was created what was the purpose?
It is easier for me to believe in that supreme being that will be my  side at all times. 


We each have to find our own answer/visualization, don't we?

 

No two are ever quite the same.

 

The ability/tendency towards good or evil exists within each of us.

 

I've realized for over fifty years now that I don't know for certain anything about god, religion and reality - got suspicions and opinions - but no absolute certainties.

 

Personally, I favor the viewpoint that the self-awareness that's god and the self-awareness that's the universe have aways been one and the same, and that within my individual self-awareness is a very dim resonant echo of the universe/god.  

The thought of always having been a part of the universe/god works for me.

Do I think god is constantly aware of me, my actions and words?

About as much asboth you and I are constantly aware of the condition and growth of our left smallest toenail - well unless we drop something on it...

 


Yes. My only difference is I think the HUMAN consciousness developed further on earth. You feel it stong with soe, hopefully your spouse..people you call soul mates. I think the US has a harder time with it since we are so recent..other places in the world are ancient. Look at the similarities in our own natives; India, china..anywhere native paople still dominate. I especially am taken with Austrailian Aboriginies, who came from the "dreaming" , and to it shall return. Tribes separated by enough distance to never meet held the same basic beliefs.

So it begins.
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Re: Big Bang Theory in the news

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Message 3 of 22

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:


Science tells/describes "what and how" - uses scientific measurements and mathematics - but does not deal with the supernaturality of "who" - because "who" cannot be measured or mathematically described.

 

Religion says it knows "who" - but has never been capable of using scientific measurements or mathematics to measure and describe "what and how"

 

Two descriptions of reality that esentially mutually exclude use of each other's language.

 

Couple that with the irrationality of human belief/insistence that only one can be the correct description...

 

The only possible conclusion is that nothing can be conclusively and irrefutably proved at this point in time.

 

If one is honest with oneself - one must admit that it is impossible to know for certain - one can only believe what one believes - and hope they are correct that what they believe is an accurate description of existence/reality... 

 

The current impasse exists because -

 

Science has questions the answer to which may not be possible to find.

Religion has answers that are not permitted to ever be questioned.

 


Alferd everthing that you have stated is a very logical explanation. and I guess that it comes down to the individual/
I rather think that there is a supreme being God, Nature whomever that had to do with all that surrounds us. 
It would be for me too boring to think that I was born, lived and will die and in reality was there a purporse. I puts me on equal footing with any animal. 
Why I was created what was the purpose?
It is easier for me to believe in that supreme being that will be my  side at all times. 


We each have to find our own answer/visualization, don't we?

 

No two are ever quite the same.

 

The ability/tendency towards good or evil exists within each of us.

 

I've realized for over fifty years now that I don't know for certain anything about god, religion and reality - got suspicions and opinions - but no absolute certainties.

 

Personally, I favor the viewpoint that the self-awareness that's god and the self-awareness that's the universe have aways been one and the same, and that within my individual self-awareness is a very dim resonant echo of the universe/god.  

The thought of always having been a part of the universe/god works for me.

Do I think god is constantly aware of me, my actions and words?

About as much asboth you and I are constantly aware of the condition and growth of our left smallest toenail - well unless we drop something on it...

 

44>dolt45
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Re: Big Bang Theory in the news

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Message 4 of 22

@alferdpacker wrote:


Science tells/describes "what and how" - uses scientific measurements and mathematics - but does not deal with the supernaturality of "who" - because "who" cannot be measured or mathematically described.

 

Religion says it knows "who" - but has never been capable of using scientific measurements or mathematics to measure and describe "what and how"

 

Two descriptions of reality that esentially mutually exclude use of each other's language.

 

Couple that with the irrationality of human belief/insistence that only one can be the correct description...

 

The only possible conclusion is that nothing can be conclusively and irrefutably proved at this point in time.

 

If one is honest with oneself - one must admit that it is impossible to know for certain - one can only believe what one believes - and hope they are correct that what they believe is an accurate description of existence/reality... 

 

The current impasse exists because -

 

Science has questions the answer to which may not be possible to find.

Religion has answers that are not permitted to ever be questioned.

 


Alferd everthing that you have stated is a very logical explanation. and I guess that it comes down to the individual/
I rather think that there is a supreme being God, Nature whomever that had to do with all that surrounds us. 
It would be for me too boring to think that I was born, lived and will die and in reality was there a purporse. I puts me on equal footing with any animal. 
Why I was created what was the purpose?
It is easier for me to believe in that supreme being that will be my  side at all times. 

no name
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Re: Big Bang Theory in the news

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Message 5 of 22


@Indianrock wrote:

"There are scientists exploring now whether the universe has a consciousness. "

 

Once I stopped laughing I thought ... consciousness of the universe? 

God?


Awareness of one's own existence - sentience.

 

Something we have discovered unquestionably exists in the great apes, chimpanzees, and there's every indication exists in other animals - after all, we are animals - "naked apes" - who still retain multiple behavioral and physical characteristics left over from our primitive primate ancestors - are we not?

 

Provide proof that what we perceive of and refer to as "god" could not possibly be a nervous system that includes the entire universe.  

Woudn't that be far more complex than necessary to have achieved sentience?

The fact that a description of what god looks like doesn't exist is significant.

 

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Re: Big Bang Theory in the news

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@jfpinlvn wrote:

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/sep/02/stephen-hawking-big-bang-creator

 

Haven't read his book, but is Hawkings saying that physical laws, i.e., gravity, existed before the universe was created? Doesn't that suggest that there was something, not "nothing" in existence before the big bang? In what realm did those physical laws exist?


So you suggest that "something" had to be in prior existence in another time/space continuum?   Can that be proved?

 

Nope - nothing - not time, not matter, not physics, not gravity - not even any capacity to perceive that that there was nothing with which to perceive that there was not even any "where" "out there" ...

 

 

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Re: Big Bang Theory in the news

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Message 7 of 22

The creation of God is simple.

 

Monkeys, whales, ants and the rest of the animal kingdom do not have the ability to reason conceptually, with the exception of humans.

 

God was created at the moment humans became conscious of their ability to reason conceptually.

 

The problem is that the concept that there is NO GOD came into being at the same time.

 

And, I suppose, the concept that there MAYBE IS/MAYBE NOT A GOD  also came into being at the same time.

 

Those things we can say with certainty.

 

Still dosn't answer the question, does it????????????

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Re: Big Bang Theory in the news

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Message 8 of 22

"There are scientists exploring now whether the universe has a consciousness. "

 

Once I stopped laughing I thought ... consciousness of the universe? 

God?

Burnhaven
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Re: Big Bang Theory in the news

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Message 9 of 22

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/sep/02/stephen-hawking-big-bang-creator

 

Haven't read his book, but is Hawkings saying that physical laws, i.e., gravity, existed before the universe was created? Doesn't that suggest that there was something, not "nothing" in existence before the big bang? In what realm did those physical laws exist?

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Re: Big Bang Theory in the news

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Message 10 of 22

@alferdpacker wrote:

@NerdyMom wrote:

Stephen Hawking's book, The Grand Design, was an interesting look at how the universe could sponteously create itself without the need for a God. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/sep/02/stephen-hawking-big-bang-creator

 

Does that mean there is no God?  No.   But it shows a way that God is not necessary to explain how we all began.

 

As far as crazy theories, though, we need those.  We need creativity and imagination to even come up with hypotheses that can be tested.   That's all science is, right?    You need to ask a question first before you can test it.   


So if it's been established that the Universe could have spontaneously come into being without any outside influence - it is now considered possible that the consciousness called god - gaia etc etc  may well have come into existence at the same instant the universe came into existence.


That's Hawking's view.  I mean, he doesn't believe in God, but he says that the creation of our universe wiped out any preexisting laws of physics and created our own, the ones we know now and the things we keep discovering.  So I guess if God exists, he could have been created by the Big Bang.  

 

There are scientists exploring now whether the universe has a consciousness.  Panpsychism.   Wouldn't that be fascinating?  

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/universe-conscious-ncna772956

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