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Re: Beware: Disinformation Campaign of 2020

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Message 1 of 25

All ya gotta do nowadays is spout Lies after Lies and the Far Right Sheep follow wilfully blind. Integrity they have not !!

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Re: Beware: Disinformation Campaign of 2020

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@MaVolta wrote:

The idea is to cause chaos and division among D's during the primary season. This is the only way Trump wins.

Debate the issues. Fine. Choose a favorite. Fine. Vote! Then support the nominee even if it wasn't your first choice. This is how D's win. 

************************************

MaVolta,

You hit the nail on the probverbial head.  If Democrats want to win, we must stick together and vote as one voice!  And after that.....we need to keep on sticking together no matter what--just like the Repubs do!

 

As the saying goes:  Republicans fall in line and Democrats fall apart.  That must change!

 


 

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Re: Beware: Disinformation Campaign of 2020

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Message 3 of 25

@GailL1 wrote:

@MaVolta 

Actually, I was responding ot your post after your initial article was posted.

Mavolta wrote:

The idea is to cause chaos and division among D's during the primary season. This is the only way Trump wins.

 

Debate the issues. Fine. Choose a favorite. Fine. Vote! Then support the nominee even if it wasn't your first choice. This is how D's win.

 

This sort of low-down politics (chaos / lying / playing one against the other)  didn't start with the Russian.  For as long as I can remember there have been various posting on the internet which made my hair stand on ends - not just about the various candidate but about various policies - their success or their downfall.

 

I read some stuff on Obamacare when the big legislative shift from D's to R's happened that I knew wasn't correct.  But there it was - everywhere and I don't do Facebook or most other social medias.

 

The dumb are gonna believe whatever gets to them via whatever route especially if it agrees with their opinions of whichever party.  GOD, sometimes it is just they think they heard it or they misinterpreted it - you know like the rumor that morphs and morphs each time it is repeated. 

 

You just wouldn't believe some things I hear from people around here - I just roll my eyes.  They have a hard enough time trying to decide how they want their Medicare - or when they want to go onto Social Security and then they read something about the (SS / Medicare) money has been stolen by the ______ (fill in the party blank)..

 

Is voting really working if we go to the poles and vote only "D", "R", "I" or "Incumbant"?

Is voting really working if we vote by gender, color or ethnicity?

Is voting really working if we are voting for whichever candidate that supports our views as:

(some group)

  • urban / suburban / rural
  • coal worker / wind-power worker
  • climate change / non-believer
  • union / non-union
  • young(er) / old(er)

 

Many people are very gullible - Trump came along when there was a lot of discontent within certain groups that thought they were being left behind or not heard.  They thought he was standing up for them, I guess.  I said this before - they registered to vote by the hundreds/thousands here - people who had NEVER voted before.  Will they continue to vote ????   Many of them are still supporters.  Especially when they read, as I do on different sites, ridicule, hate, name-calling, no understanding of why they felt the way they did to vote for such a dufus. 

 

I just don't think anger is a good way to choose a candidate - but that is where we are at - anger is fueling it all, it seems.

 

I would like to vote for the person that has good ideas to solve our countries problems.  Good, thorough thinking with honest answers - that should really do the candidate in - who wants to hear the actual truth..

 

 


We're still talking apples and oranges but okay, I'll go with the flow.

 

To your first point - dirty politics has been around forever . . . just ask Julius Caesar. American politics has often been a wild, mud-slinging ride, but it used to remain closer to home. Today, it's flashed around the world in an instant.

 

People's lives can be destroyed and changed forever with just the stroke of a keyboard by a bad actor working for anyone, anywhere on the globe who seeks to undermine the democratic system. This is what happened in 2016 and continues to this day. I doubt that antagonists even care who gets nominated by the D-party, as long as they are tarnished enough to get voter discord and anger to believe that the system is a failure. 

 

Do we need to make changes? Yes, absolutely. Get the money out of politics through campaign finance reform, end voter suppression, end the gerrymandered districts, etc. But even if we could get enough brave souls elected to Congress to accomplish that, there will still be too much power that remains in the hands of the DNC and RNC who are the fundraising arms of each party. They are not, repeat, not going to vote themselves out of business.

 

So to your point about voting, it's usually one of two things: People either vote their own self-interest, OR they vote for those whom they see as like-minded and think how they think. I don't see how you change that. It's human nature. The key is for voters to seek the best of that lot to represent them.

 

Yes, I want someone who represents my views, but I also want someone smart enough to know when it's time to find ways to compromise and move ahead for the greater good. We can't go through life thinking that we get everything we want like spoiled children. Or at least, we shouldn't, IMO. Our goal should be to make things better. Barack Obama said something like - "We don't need bigger government or smaller government, we need better government."

 

Which gets to your next point about choosing a good candidate - what makes you think that D's can't choose a great candidate? There are plenty from which to choose. Maybe they have similar views on major issues, but they all bring different ideas to the table. 

 

And finally, if elections are being driven by anger then it is because Donald Trump tapped into it and brought it to a boiling point, so much so, people voted for him. It didn't matter that he wasn't qualified, or that he was amoral, or any of that. The people were, and many still are, convinced that he thinks like they do. Then there are the others who just wanted the tax cuts and the conservative justices, and they got what they wanted.

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Re: Beware: Disinformation Campaign of 2020

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Message 4 of 25

Politico reports:  It reads in part . . . 

 

Sustained and ongoing’ disinformation assault targets Dem presidential candidates

A coordinated barrage of social media attacks suggests the involvement of foreign state actors.

02/20/2019 06:05 AM EST

 

 

Poltergeist GIF - Poltergeist GIFs

 

They're Back ............................................. 

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Re: Beware: Disinformation Campaign of 2020

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Message 5 of 25

@gordyfl Your premise is interesting and makes a lot of sense. 

Perhaps, we have become a faceless bunch of a majority of voters due to the net. Before it more contact was probably more personal and or face to face. Now it’s easier to hide behind a net personality. And by not having any idea

of the person posting, there is no personal touch as to what is said. Likewise for anything stated as being a fact, we don’t have a personal feel for watching the persons movements, inflections, or reactions to what is stated. Being there in person does give us a feel for whether a person is being truthful, or trying to sell us a false idea. Not perfect but maybe better than not seeing them in person. 

 

Never Forget

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Re: Beware: Disinformation Campaign of 2020

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Message 6 of 25

Imagine if there was no internet - like the old days.

 

We would depend on local newspapers, local TV and radio news, and the 3 major TV networks. We wouldn't know how others felt about their candidates, except for those in our close circles. We would talk politics face to face. I don't know where I'm going with this, but it was certainly much different back then.

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Re: Beware: Disinformation Campaign of 2020

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Message 7 of 25

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@GailL1 wrote:

OH, yes - just vote for the designation of that "D" beside their name - Isn't that what most people do anyway - vote for the party and know little about the candidate at all levels of government. Voting "D" makes more sense that voting "R", unless of course you are one of  the wealthiest in our nation.

Can you show any proof of what "most people do" Gail?

 

Seems rather important here -

Ballotpedia - Political party designation

It is the way a candidate is identified - the ONLY identity necessary in many cases.

 

 

Seems elections at all levels would be much fairer if all those designates "D", "R", "I", "Incumbant" were erased - people would then have to research the actual candidates and pick their poison. Do ya' really think they would "research", or maybe just want to see their picture?

 

You are right - a picture might do as a replacement - is he/she a good looking human - do they look honest (Ha, ha) - How's their hair?

but I would hope people would get more involve - research, read  and study each candidate - might have fewer voters - but how do we know if we don't try?

 

We have dumbed down the voters to picking their candidate based on their party affiliation, name recognition, or those currently in office or what's in it for me rather than what is good for the country in their opinion. 

 

So does that go for only left wingers or are you saying that right wingers are guilty of that? Who is "we", Gail?  Who has "dumbed down the voters"? 

 

Of course, I am talking about both the right and the left wingers.

We, meaning all of us - American citizens - we are the ones that allow this to happen because we don't want to have to change it.  Who teaches people how to vote?   Do we give them an instruction book when they register?  How many people watch debates?  How many vote in the primaries?  On the local level, how many do you see come to the League of Women Voters "meet the candidates" get-togethers?

How many of them vote in the mid-term elections, normally?  Last year was an outlier, but give it to "Trump" for increasing that turnout and flipping the House.  Nobody has actually dumbed voter down except themselves.  It is easier to vote by letter or even color.

 

We take what we think, to be the gospel - might not even be true - but it is still the gospel. Who is "we"? Do you take what you think as "gospel"?  I'm right, you're wrong or You're right, I'm wrong.  Perhaps we should all just take our voting info from ET. "ET"? Really"  How about FOX News instead?

 

WE - all of us.

OK, Fox News, or CNN, or MSNBC, or any of the various leaning "news" sites - print or vision.  Then all the various discussion boards that allow political discussions or are political discussions within themselves.  Again it is easier to be around like-minded individuals that share views than it is to research various candidates of either party running for an office. 

 

What good does it do to keep expanding the numbers of voters - if they are dumbed down voters. So you prefer voter restriction?

I said nothing about restrictions but why go to all the trouble when we can just register as "D" or "R" - cast the vote at that registration - that is all that matters.  Elections are decided by those who are registered as "independents".  It is those "I"s who I hope are making the decision based on their research of each candidate.

Do you think they do?  Or are we still dealing in votes for color, perhaps wealth, what's in it for me . . . . . ?

 

No wonder we have a divided nation. Having mandatory voting would "divide the nation" by getting more Democrats in office.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Mandatory voting would just be something else they just have to work into their schedule -

We are divided by lots of different things and each is a pretty big division - think I named some of them already in another post.

 

I recall in my area, voters were asking for pictures of the candidates be posted in the local paper before the election with a short spill on their stance on issues..  Worked so well (not), overwelming votes for those who were black with NO even related experience, disregarding those who had done service for a very long time and were doing a great job. And you know this to be true how? 

 

Because I have lived here for 30 years and this was not a real decision making position - mostly about procedures and helping people - Probate Judge - in fact, I am not even sure it was a partisan position. The one that had been in office for many years was a very compassionate person and helped families when they needed help with the procedures.

 

Soon after election, recall campaigns started cause the election went to unqualified, unscrupulous character who had numerous court cases against him - criminal and civil.  2nd time around, we got at least qualified, seemingly upstanding elected official regardless of color - but the voting number in the new election was but a handful of people.

And there was voter crimes/fraud that was so bad in Florida that it resulted in even the Republican elected candidate calling for a new election.

 

I am sure it does happen everywhere - this one was just a vote blantantly based on color - A bad candidate picked for the wrong reason.  Many just didn't look at his credentials and related experience, they just went by his picture.  Don't get me wrong here - I live in a minority area and most all of my elected officials are black - this insident was just over the top since the previous Probate Judge of many years was one of the only white, women, older in city government.

 

Just like some here think the 2016 Presidential election went- electing a nonqualified, unscrupulous character - have we learned nothing.  The "R"s don't have a monopoly on them. Oh, but don't we have "fine people on both sides" ?


I do not know what else to say to you.


 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: Beware: Disinformation Campaign of 2020

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Message 8 of 25

@GailL1 wrote:

@MaVolta 

Actually, I was responding ot your post after your initial article was posted.

Mavolta wrote:

The idea is to cause chaos and division among D's during the primary season. This is the only way Trump wins.

 

Debate the issues. Fine. Choose a favorite. Fine. Vote! Then support the nominee even if it wasn't your first choice. This is how D's win.

 

This sort of low-down politics (chaos / lying / playing one against the other)  didn't start with the Russian.  For as long as I can remember there have been various posting on the internet which made my hair stand on ends - not just about the various candidate but about various policies - their success or their downfall.

 

I read some stuff on Obamacare when the big legislative shift from D's to R's happened that I knew wasn't correct.  But there it was - everywhere and I don't do Facebook or most other social medias.

 

The dumb are gonna believe whatever gets to them via whatever route especially if it agrees with their opinions of whichever party.  GOD, sometimes it is just they think they heard it or they misinterpreted it - you know like the rumor that morphs and morphs each time it is repeated. 

 

You just wouldn't believe some things I hear from people around here - I just roll my eyes.  They have a hard enough time trying to decide how they want their Medicare - or when they want to go onto Social Security and then they read something about the (SS / Medicare) money has been stolen by the ______ (fill in the party blank)..

 

Is voting really working if we go to the poles and vote only "D", "R", "I" or "Incumbant"?

Is voting really working if we vote by gender, color or ethnicity?

Is voting really working if we are voting for whichever candidate that supports our views as:

(some group)

  • urban / suburban / rural
  • coal worker / wind-power worker
  • climate change / non-believer
  • union / non-union
  • young(er) / old(er)

 

Many people are very gullible - Trump came along when there was a lot of discontent within certain groups that thought they were being left behind or not heard.  They thought he was standing up for them, I guess.  I said this before - they registered to vote by the hundreds/thousands here - people who had NEVER voted before.  Will they continue to vote ????   Many of them are still supporters.  Especially when they read, as I do on different sites, ridicule, hate, name-calling, no understanding of why they felt the way they did to vote for such a dufus. 

 

I just don't think anger is a good way to choose a candidate - but that is where we are at - anger is fueling it all, it seems.

 

I would like to vote for the person that has good ideas to solve our countries problems.  Good, thorough thinking with honest answers - that should really do the candidate in - who wants to hear the actual truth..

_________________________________________________________________________

 

You are correct many people are very gullible, and people should study what a person has done good and bad before they vote for them. Anyone who did that on Trump will find he has been living in the underbelly of society all of his business life. New York City lost 3 million when he ran 2 sets of books on a hotel investment he had with them. The small supplier in Pa. who he refused to pay after he got the goods he purchased, and then wanted 70 more for free. The supplier went under and put a gun to his head and killed himself. The widow who refused to sell her house in AC to him and he made it worthless to her. The Banks in Atlantic City he was going to take down if they did not give him a lower rate. As he told the newspapers: If you owe the banks a little money they own you. If you owe them a lot of money you own them, and he owned them. The 3 million loan from his father by father buying chips as the casino. He was fined for that. Flying mob people on his choppers from NYC to AC to gamble. Trump Univ. Students. People who purchased condo pre building and  then they were not built. He ran his organization as a mob was run. The people around him were always skirting or in trouble with the law. No Gail there is no hate in what is said about Trump as no one has to they can use facts which is something anyone who voted for him did not. Just look at the people surrounding him now. It seems like one goes down every week. Trump has never resolved a problem for anyone, all he has done is create problems for everyone and everything he touches.

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Re: Beware: Disinformation Campaign of 2020

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Message 9 of 25

@MaVolta 

Actually, I was responding ot your post after your initial article was posted.

Mavolta wrote:

The idea is to cause chaos and division among D's during the primary season. This is the only way Trump wins.

 

Debate the issues. Fine. Choose a favorite. Fine. Vote! Then support the nominee even if it wasn't your first choice. This is how D's win.

 

This sort of low-down politics (chaos / lying / playing one against the other)  didn't start with the Russian.  For as long as I can remember there have been various posting on the internet which made my hair stand on ends - not just about the various candidate but about various policies - their success or their downfall.

 

I read some stuff on Obamacare when the big legislative shift from D's to R's happened that I knew wasn't correct.  But there it was - everywhere and I don't do Facebook or most other social medias.

 

The dumb are gonna believe whatever gets to them via whatever route especially if it agrees with their opinions of whichever party.  GOD, sometimes it is just they think they heard it or they misinterpreted it - you know like the rumor that morphs and morphs each time it is repeated. 

 

You just wouldn't believe some things I hear from people around here - I just roll my eyes.  They have a hard enough time trying to decide how they want their Medicare - or when they want to go onto Social Security and then they read something about the (SS / Medicare) money has been stolen by the ______ (fill in the party blank)..

 

Is voting really working if we go to the poles and vote only "D", "R", "I" or "Incumbant"?

Is voting really working if we vote by gender, color or ethnicity?

Is voting really working if we are voting for whichever candidate that supports our views as:

(some group)

  • urban / suburban / rural
  • coal worker / wind-power worker
  • climate change / non-believer
  • union / non-union
  • young(er) / old(er)

 

Many people are very gullible - Trump came along when there was a lot of discontent within certain groups that thought they were being left behind or not heard.  They thought he was standing up for them, I guess.  I said this before - they registered to vote by the hundreds/thousands here - people who had NEVER voted before.  Will they continue to vote ????   Many of them are still supporters.  Especially when they read, as I do on different sites, ridicule, hate, name-calling, no understanding of why they felt the way they did to vote for such a dufus. 

 

I just don't think anger is a good way to choose a candidate - but that is where we are at - anger is fueling it all, it seems.

 

I would like to vote for the person that has good ideas to solve our countries problems.  Good, thorough thinking with honest answers - that should really do the candidate in - who wants to hear the actual truth..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: Beware: Disinformation Campaign of 2020

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Message 10 of 25

@GailL1 wrote:

OH, yes - just vote for the designation of that "D" beside their name - Isn't that what most people do anyway - vote for the party and know little about the candidate at all levels of government.

 

Seems elections at all levels would be much fairer if all those designates "D", "R", "I", "Incumbant" were erased - people would then have to research the actual candidates and pick their poison.

 

just like some here think the 2016 Presidential election went- electing a nonqualified, unscrupulous character - have we learned nothing.  The "R"s don't have a monopoly on them. 

 


No, but the "R"s do seem to be the only ones actively recruiting unqualified unscrupulous characters for the future and supporting without question those they already have in office. As for disinformation, there is NOTHING to compare with the Republican Propaganda Ministry of Fox, Breightbart and Infowars.

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