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Re: Bernie Can Beat Trump, Primary Voters Know It

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Message 41 of 87

Re: Sanders leading in the polls with around 32% of Democrats and left-leaning Independents. That means there are some 68% who prefer someone who is not Bernie Sanders. And no, I'm not feeling the Bern. I'll consider myself an Independent who leans left, in that case.

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You say if you subtract Bernie's 32% from 100%, that leaves 68% - total of all the centrists. (Buttigieg, Biden, Klobuchar, Bloomberg).
A simple formula, but elections don't work that way. There are many other variables. For example, voter's 2nd choice, likability, etc.


In all one-on-one polls - Bernie versus each candidate -- Bernie wins.

 

bernie head to head.png

 

bernie head to head 1.jpg


For example....

bernie buttigieg poll.png

 

https://news.yahoo.com/new-yahoo-news-you-gov-poll-shows-sanderss-strength-going-head-to-head-with-r...

 

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Re: Bernie Can Beat Trump, Primary Voters Know It

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Message 42 of 87

@MaVolta wrote:

 

 

Re: Sanders leading in the polls with around 32% of Democrats and left-leaning Independents. That means there are some 68% who prefer someone who is not Bernie Sanders. And no, I'm not feeling the Bern. I'll consider myself an Independent who leans left, in that case.

 


Anyone could use the poll numbers like you do here to show that any other Dem candidate has even more than 68% who are for someone other than them.


"The only thing that man learns from history is that man learns nothing from history."
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Re: Bernie Can Beat Trump, Primary Voters Know It

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Message 43 of 87

I posted the article to show you what's coming down the pike if Sanders is the nominee, not because I'm a fan of Tom Nichols. He did get a few things right in regards to Trump's mental state, and even said that he'd take Clinton as the lesser of two evils. Many of us did.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That was an "opinion" piece by Tom Nichols. I'm sure many people don't agree with his opinion of Barack Obama and Syria, myself included. I also think he exaggerated about Hillary.

He and Tulsi disagree on foreign policy. He's a military interventionist. Tulsi opposes regime change wars. I'm with Tulsi on that, and most of her other policies. 

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Re: Bernie Can Beat Trump, Primary Voters Know It

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Message 44 of 87

In response to @gordyfl  - 

 

I posted the article to show you what's coming down the pike if Sanders is the nominee, not because I'm a fan of Tom Nichols. He did get a few things right in regards to Trump's mental state, and even said that he'd take Clinton as the lesser of two evils. Many of us did.

 

And btw - I have my own doubts about Tulsi Gabbard. I agree with @john258 , something's not right. Bernie supports are getting as cultish as Trump supporters. It doesn't matter what either of them say or do, their core base will support them no matter what. 

 

Re: Sanders leading in the polls with around 32% of Democrats and left-leaning Independents. That means there are some 68% who prefer someone who is not Bernie Sanders. And no, I'm not feeling the Bern. I'll consider myself an Independent who leans left, in that case.

 

"Music can change the world because it can change people." - Bono
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Re: Bernie Can Beat Trump, Primary Voters Know It

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Message 45 of 87

@john258 wrote:


The truth hurts and you want to deflect that the Trump and Bernie supporters act the same way a good deal of the time  just look at what they are doing.


You are deflecting from all of the attacks on Bernie, does that truth hurt?

 

Bernie's leading the polls, does that truth hurt?

 

Feel the Burn.

 


"The only thing that man learns from history is that man learns nothing from history."
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Re: Bernie Can Beat Trump, Primary Voters Know It

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Message 46 of 87

As a Soviet expert and a politically homeless Never Trump voter, I am certain of three things when it comes to Bernie and the Soviets. First, his comments about the USSR show that his judgment is terrible. Second, he will be unable to wave away his comments merely by appending “democratic” to his preferred version of Soviet ideology. And third, the Republicans will weaponize his remarks, and this will likely cost him the election. Indeed, it would be professional malpractice if Trump’s campaign people passed up this chance. Were I still a Republican and hoping for a GOP win, I could write those ads myself.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/02/18/sanders-embarassing-ineffective-better-than-trump-...

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Tom Nichols calls himself an anti-Trumper, but he is actually pro-war pro-military intervention. He believes in US flexing its military might around the world. I'm a bit surprised that Tom Nichols said in the article that he would vote for Bernie, anyway.


Tom Nichols constantly berates pro-peace candidate Tulsi Gabbard and her opposition to regime change wars..


Tom Nichols: "As a former Republican who will vote for the Democratic nominee again in 2020, I hope that I never have to talk about Tulsi Gabbard again."

nichols tulsi present.jpg

Tom Nichol blamed the Syria problem on Barack Obama....


Tom Nichols: "Stop Blaming Trump For The Disaster Obama Made Of Syria."


"There is only one American who must bear the moral stain of allowing Syria to become an abattoir, and that is the current president of the United States, Barack Obama."


"It’s Obama’s Fault We Have a Global Disaster."


"Rather than blame Obama, however, the game now is to point to Trump, as though he is somehow responsible for this mess and has a positive obligation to do something about it. He doesn’t.


"There’s also the irony, of course, that the same liberals who still insist that no human being could solve the problems George Bush created in Iraq are now desperate to pin future failures in Syria on both Trump and Clinton before Obama has even left office. No matter who wins, neither Trump nor Clinton deserve to be preemptively castigated for their solutions, whatever they are, to Obama’s monumentally poor decisions on Syria."


"...70 years of American foreign policy in the Middle East brought to ruin by one man, and one man only: Barack Obama."


https://thefederalist.com/2016/08/19/stop-blaming-trump-for-the-disaster-obama-made-of-syria/


When Tom Nichols plays the role as pundit he sounds like a political hack:

 

Tom Nichols: "The answer, at least for me, is: if forced into a choice between Clinton and Trump, I will prefer Hillary Clinton. The future of the entire conservative movement is at stake, and a Clinton victory over Trump might be the only hope of saving it."


Tom Nichols: "My hands almost could not type those words, because I think Hillary Clinton is one of the worst human beings in American politics."


"She has few principles that I can discern, other than her firm conviction that she deserves the Oval Office for enabling and then defending her sexually neurotic husband.
She lies as easily as the rest of us breathe.
She has compromised national security through sheer laziness at best, and corrupt intent at worst.
If elected, she will enrich Wall Street and raid the public coffers while preaching hateful doctrines of identity politics to distract America’s poor and working classes."


And to show you how wrong Tom Nichols can be...


Tom Nichols: "Morally unmoored, emotionally unstable, a crony capitalist of the worst kind, Trump will be every bit as liberal as Hillary. But Trump will be worse."


Tom Nichols: "His (Trump's) judicial appointments will likely be liberal friends from New York.
His Great Wall of Mexico will never be built, and employers will go right on hiring cheap labor and outsourcing jobs, just as Trump does with his made-in-Mexico suits.
His China Smoot-Hawley Tariff will never be implemented.
His administration, led by a vulgar, aging man-child who is firmly pro-abortion....
...He will obliterate Republicans further down the ticket in 2016."


https://thefederalist.com/2016/02/24/ill-take-hillary-clinton-over-donald-trump/

 

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Re: Bernie Can Beat Trump, Primary Voters Know It

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Message 47 of 87

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@john258 wrote:


Actions speak louder than words, and when they attack each other like Bernie does it helps Trump. 


So what about the other candidates attacking Bernie? Why single Bernie out?  All of the candidates have been attacking whoever gets in the lead. Biden went on the attack, so since "actions speak louder than words, is he now a tRump supporter?


Try reading what I posted. I have said over and over they should stick to Trump and not attack each other. Of all Bernie has done it the most and even had to disavow an attack by one of his campaign people the other day. Sadly the people who support Bernie seem to be getting more interested in supporting him over beating Trump as shown by some of the feedback I am getting from them. Trump should be the center of this campaign. We find Bernie supporters agreeing with the Trump enablers is their desire to get him the nomination, and that is a quick way to get Trump reelected.


I disagree, Bernie Sanders has not "done it the most". You mention that "Sadly the people who support Bernie seem to be getting more interested in supporting him over beating Trump".  Well John you don't know what others think, you just make assumptions, erroneous ones at that. I support Sanders because I think he has the best chance of defeating trump and I like his agenda, I think it is what is best for the vast majority of Americans. You think that you are right and everyone else is wrong but others are entitled to their opinions as to who is the best candidate to defeat trump and who is the best for our country. We simply disagree.


Sadly you prove what I have said about Bernie. You tell me I do not.  I have thought from the second we started this back and forth you were a Bernie supporter and you prove me correct. 


What a genius you must be! I have been saying in this very forum that  I supported Bernie Sanders from the very beginning, I supported him in the 2016 primary. Wow, it only took you this long to catch on!  Congratulations ! 

 

You really need to stop accusing others of being trump supporters or acting like them. It is you who is using trump supporter tactics. Give it a rest.


The truth hurts and you want to deflect that the Trump and Bernie supporters act the same way a good deal of the time  just look at what they are doing. If they think anyone criticizes Bernie they attack, and sadly they even attack when Bernie is given credit for something because they do not understand the subject. It is close to being peas in a pod. Now lets hope the Bernie supporters go from attacking others who fight Trump and support all who fight Trump. We will all see how the Candidates act tomorrow evening on TV. Will it be how they will beat Trump or will it be here are the big new programs I will bring. If the later they waste all of our time. Why? If the Dems do not take the Senate back and M McConnell is in charge nothing in the way of big programs gets passed. Fact is the new President will not even be able to get a SC Justice confirmed.

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Re: Bernie Can Beat Trump, Primary Voters Know It

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Message 48 of 87

@john258 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@john258 wrote:


Actions speak louder than words, and when they attack each other like Bernie does it helps Trump. 


So what about the other candidates attacking Bernie? Why single Bernie out?  All of the candidates have been attacking whoever gets in the lead. Biden went on the attack, so since "actions speak louder than words, is he now a tRump supporter?


Try reading what I posted. I have said over and over they should stick to Trump and not attack each other. Of all Bernie has done it the most and even had to disavow an attack by one of his campaign people the other day. Sadly the people who support Bernie seem to be getting more interested in supporting him over beating Trump as shown by some of the feedback I am getting from them. Trump should be the center of this campaign. We find Bernie supporters agreeing with the Trump enablers is their desire to get him the nomination, and that is a quick way to get Trump reelected.


I disagree, Bernie Sanders has not "done it the most". You mention that "Sadly the people who support Bernie seem to be getting more interested in supporting him over beating Trump".  Well John you don't know what others think, you just make assumptions, erroneous ones at that. I support Sanders because I think he has the best chance of defeating trump and I like his agenda, I think it is what is best for the vast majority of Americans. You think that you are right and everyone else is wrong but others are entitled to their opinions as to who is the best candidate to defeat trump and who is the best for our country. We simply disagree.


Sadly you prove what I have said about Bernie. You tell me I do not.  I have thought from the second we started this back and forth you were a Bernie supporter and you prove me correct. 


What a genius you must be! I have been saying in this very forum that  I supported Bernie Sanders from the very beginning, I supported him in the 2016 primary. Wow, it only took you this long to catch on!  Congratulations ! 

 

You really need to stop accusing others of being trump supporters or acting like them. It is you who is using trump supporter tactics. Give it a rest.


"The only thing that man learns from history is that man learns nothing from history."
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Re: Bernie Can Beat Trump, Primary Voters Know It

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Message 49 of 87

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@john258 wrote:


Actions speak louder than words, and when they attack each other like Bernie does it helps Trump. 


So what about the other candidates attacking Bernie? Why single Bernie out?  All of the candidates have been attacking whoever gets in the lead. Biden went on the attack, so since "actions speak louder than words, is he now a tRump supporter?


Try reading what I posted. I have said over and over they should stick to Trump and not attack each other. Of all Bernie has done it the most and even had to disavow an attack by one of his campaign people the other day. Sadly the people who support Bernie seem to be getting more interested in supporting him over beating Trump as shown by some of the feedback I am getting from them. Trump should be the center of this campaign. We find Bernie supporters agreeing with the Trump enablers is their desire to get him the nomination, and that is a quick way to get Trump reelected.


I disagree, Bernie Sanders has not "done it the most". You mention that "Sadly the people who support Bernie seem to be getting more interested in supporting him over beating Trump".  Well John you don't know what others think, you just make assumptions, erroneous ones at that. I support Sanders because I think he has the best chance of defeating trump and I like his agenda, I think it is what is best for the vast majority of Americans. You think that you are right and everyone else is wrong but others are entitled to their opinions as to who is the best candidate to defeat trump and who is the best for our country. We simply disagree.


Sadly you prove what I have said about Bernie. You tell me I do not.  I have thought from the second we started this back and forth you were a Bernie supporter and you prove me correct. If you really want to help Berine stop being part of his movement, and become part of the movement to end Trump. It might upset you but the Berine supporters, and Trump supporters are very much alike as they are part of the persons movement rather than the movement to end Trump and the only way you do that is to get the best person to run as a Dem and then support that person against Trump. You were all up set with me on what I said about the Health Care system and Bernie. My comments would help Berine if he took them, as the main points Trump uses against him is cost, and he uses the only costs out there. If we had total costs for the entire system he could refute what Trump says with facts, and the facts would show the type of Medicare for All he wants will in all likeyhood cost about the same or a little less that the total system costs we have now.

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Re: Bernie Can Beat Trump, Primary Voters Know It

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Message 50 of 87

Did any of you watch the video posted by @NOTHAPPENING ? Thanks for sharing, Not. Got to give your team credit where credit is due.

 

That's exactly how the R's will go after Bernie Sanders. And that one was mild! (but funny and effective). It can and will get much worse.

 

So who's vetting Bernie Sanders? Well, so far no one from the D-party side, since they all seem to be into playing 'nice', except for Bernie. Bernie should be careful about dredging up past transgressions of other D-candidates because he will have plenty of his own to answer for if he becomes the nominee. Just because the D-candidates aren't going there, the Trump campaign certainly will.

 

Since the D's won't vet him, it's now up to the Never Trump former R's. You should be reading their op-eds. They are telling you exactly what you'll see if Bernie is the nominee. Here's one that appeared today.

 

Sanders was ridiculously naive about the Soviet Union.

The Trump ads write themselves. Sanders was amazed at the open 'self-criticism' of his Soviet hosts, but they were playing him. I hope I'm not forced to vote for him to oust Trump.

Tom Nichols, Opinion columnist
 

As a Soviet expert and a politically homeless Never Trump voter, I am certain of three things when it comes to Bernie and the Soviets. First, his comments about the USSR show that his judgment is terrible. Second, he will be unable to wave away his comments merely by appending “democratic” to his preferred version of Soviet ideology. And third, the Republicans will weaponize his remarks, and this will likely cost him the election. Indeed, it would be professional malpractice if Trump’s campaign people passed up this chance. Were I still a Republican and hoping for a GOP win, I could write those ads myself.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/02/18/sanders-embarassing-ineffective-better-than-trump-...

 

Or this one:

 

Sanders has a bizarre radical past that Trump and Republicans would use to destroy him Sanders has radical fringe skeletons dangling in closets without doors. He's destined to fail in a general election, perhaps in a 49-state rout.

Gabriel Schoenfeld, Opinion columnist
 
Read the articles, people. Like it or not, this is the sign of things to come.
"Music can change the world because it can change people." - Bono
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