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Re: Average tax refund down 8.4%

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Message 11 of 27

@Olderscout66 wrote:


Spoken like a true Republican - It's the people's fault if they didn't notice the pitance added to their paychecks and now don't have the refund they'd planned on because lil donny LIED and said they'd get a tax cut.

 

Anyone care to comment on whether or not the Corporate Oligarchs got THEIR piece of donny's $1.2TRILLION give away?


This using the tax refund originating from withholdings as a personal savings tool is not a new problem - it has been going on for years.  This was an attempt to change the withholding tables to reflect a persons true tax liability without this crazy savings strategy. 

 

Have we given up on helping people understand various government functions that directly involve them and their money?

 

We spent a ton of money explaining Obamacare. 

Many People still don't understand Social Security or the various parts of Medicare.

People who didn't pay into the Social Security system while working - don't understand why they are penalized by their OASI - like the SS WEP or PO.

Many don't seem to understand money matters like buying a home or what they need for retirement. 

Now it seems, many don't understand making their money grow.  That should be paramount in their money management - making their money grow for them.

If they don't do anything else, they should look at their paystub each week and understand where that money is going and how much of it should be going there.

 

Do they know how much SS and Medicare Taxes they are paying?

Do they know how much their employer matches, if any, in their retirement plan?

Do they know how much they are contributing?

How much is their part of their (and /or their dependents) EHC (employer health coverage)?

 

Are you saying that they do or don't know these other things?

If they do - it is only one more step to understand their withholding - there are tables available to check - real easy.

 

Believe me, people that understand money - individuals or corps - keep up with it.

Anybody that has or gets any - should too.

 

This has nothing to do with party - it has to do with helping people, help themselves.

 

 

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: Average tax refund down 8.4%

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Message 12 of 27

@RobertH489899 wrote:

The ignorance here is astounding!


I assume you mean Trump's ignorance of both how  withholding works and the way Americans leverage it as a forced savings vehicle?

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Re: Average tax refund down 8.4%

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Message 13 of 27

The ignorance here is astounding!

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Re: Average tax refund down 8.4%

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Message 14 of 27

@Soosie wrote:

If this refund is so important to so many people, would it not be wise to put X amount of your income in the bank each month, draw a little interest and at tax time, take the money out and use it for whatever you count on the refund for?  I would be interested in knowing how people use this refund.  Is it just "mad money" or some other plan for it.  I always thought the idea was to simply try not to have to pay additional.  I didn't know the government was a piggy bank for so many.


Spoken like a true Republican - It's the people's fault if they didn't notice the pitance added to their paychecks and now don't have the refund they'd planned on because lil donny LIED and said they'd get a tax cut.

 

Anyone care to comment on whether or not the Corporate Oligarchs got THEIR piece of donny's $1.2TRILLION give away?

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Re: Average tax refund down 8.4%

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Message 15 of 27

@GailL1 wrote:

@Centristsin2010 

 

This subject really has little to do with tax reform except the adjustment to withholdings had to be done including any reduced amount in withholding.

 

When the IRS issued the new withholding table to employers for tax year 2018, they took into account that too many people were getting big refunds ONLY because they were having too much withheld from their paycheck and not correcting it year over year.   The withholding table was tweeked so the taxes they were paying through their employer were more closely aligned with their actual tax liability.

 

Guess the IRS didn't realize they were also a bank holding company - they held the money but gave no benefit for holding it.

 

Why try to help people by putting more money in their paycheck pocket when they don't know how to deal with their own money in the 1st place.  Sad.

 

 


You are correct. It has nothing to do with tax reform and everything to do with the moronic attempt to make the deficit busting tax reductions look as big for the middle class as they are for the top 10%.  Had Trump left the IRS alone, the withholding tables would be accurate and the perception of Trump costing people more in taxes, rather than less would not have happened. 

 

This is not a discussion about whether getting a refund makes sense, it does not.  It is a discussion about, yet another, Trump plan blowing up in his face. 

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Re: Average tax refund down 8.4%

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Message 16 of 27

@Centristsin2010 

 

This subject really has little to do with tax reform except the adjustment to withholdings had to be done including any reduced amount in withholding.

 

When the IRS issued the new withholding table to employers for tax year 2018, they took into account that too many people were getting big refunds ONLY because they were having too much withheld from their paycheck and not correcting it year over year.   The withholding table was tweeked so the taxes they were paying through their employer were more closely aligned with their actual tax liability.

 

Guess the IRS didn't realize they were also a bank holding company - they held the money but gave no benefit for holding it.

 

Why try to help people by putting more money in their paycheck pocket when they don't know how to deal with their own money in the 1st place.  Sad.

 

 

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: Average tax refund down 8.4%

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Message 17 of 27

@GailL1 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

Millions of Americans use the annual tax refund as a de facto savings account to purchase big ticket items. Sales during tax refund season have become part of the American culture.People have more money withheld just to get a large refund. 

 

Then Trump plays with the withholding tables in an attempt to make the tax cuts to the middle and lower classes as relevant as they are the the top 10%. As usual, he is a moron and the plan backfires spectacularly dealing another blow to our economy and Americans. 


Do you know how stupid that rationale sounds to a person that understands their finances and has (their own money) management skills.  

 

Most tax refunds are now direct deposited back to the subject's own bank account.  So, in essence, the IRS is just doing a pass-through of the same money.  The IRS is doing for them what they evidently cannot do for themselves.   But instead of them learning the error of their ways and how to turn things around, we just pacify them.

 

Are you saying they don't have the mental ability to learn?

Are you saying that they must rely on the government to hold these funds for them during the year.

Are you saying that they don't have the self-control to put this over-payment amount away for themselves - saving it themselves to buy whatever commodity they year for as you have implied they do with their current refund.

Sad - Sad - that you think such of your fellow citizens.  Or maybe that is the way you yourself have done it.

 

Perhaps we could even further exploit them and make it look like it is an even bigger service that government is doing for them.

 

So for 2019, we will put withholdings back to the way they were and perhaps the IRS will sanction to deduct a bit more, calling it "the savings plan with NO benefit" provided by the government.  Then in 2020 when these ignorant people get their HUGE refund of their OWN money, bigger than they have ever had before, would it be a huge windfall for the current administration in an election year cause it will be "Whoopee, Trump or a Democrat sent me a HUGE tax refund bigger than it has ever been before!"

 

Honestly, Richva, people need to begin to understand their money, money management for their own benefit - keeping them dumb help nobody, especially them.  Sounds like what some are advocating here.

 

On second thought, perhaps we have found a way to FORCE savings upon people - over-pay and Uncle Sam will hold it for you and dish it out as a bonus when they begin to draw their SS or some disaster when they need emergency funds.


Some REALLY want to ignore trumps promises to ALL Americans....

 

 


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Average tax refund down 8.4%

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Message 18 of 27

@Richva wrote:

Millions of Americans use the annual tax refund as a de facto savings account to purchase big ticket items. Sales during tax refund season have become part of the American culture.People have more money withheld just to get a large refund. 

 

Then Trump plays with the withholding tables in an attempt to make the tax cuts to the middle and lower classes as relevant as they are the the top 10%. As usual, he is a moron and the plan backfires spectacularly dealing another blow to our economy and Americans. 


 

 

Most tax refunds are now direct deposited back to the subject's own bank account.  So, in essence, the IRS is just doing a pass-through of the same money.  The IRS is doing for them what they evidently cannot do for themselves.   But instead of them learning the error of their ways and how to turn things around, we just pacify them.

 

Are you saying they don't have the mental ability to learn?

Are you saying that they must rely on the government to hold these funds for them during the year.

Are you saying that they don't have the self-control to put this over-payment amount away for themselves - saving it themselves to buy whatever commodity they year for as you have implied they do with their current refund.

Sad - Sad - that you think such of your fellow citizens.  Or maybe that is the way you yourself have done it.

 

Perhaps we could even further exploit them and make it look like it is an even bigger service that government is doing for them.

 

So for 2019, we will put withholdings back to the way they were and perhaps the IRS will sanction to deduct a bit more, calling it "the savings plan with NO benefit" provided by the government.  Then in 2020 when these ignorant people get their HUGE refund of their OWN money, bigger than they have ever had before, would it be a huge windfall for the current administration in an election year cause it will be "Whoopee, Trump or a Democrat sent me a HUGE tax refund bigger than it has ever been before!"

 

Honestly, Richva, people need to begin to understand their money, money management for their own benefit - keeping them dumb help nobody, especially them.  Sounds like what some are advocating here.

 

On second thought, perhaps we have found a way to FORCE savings upon people - over-pay and Uncle Sam will hold it for you and dish it out as a bonus when they begin to draw their SS or some disaster when they need emergency funds.

* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Average tax refund down 8.4%

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Message 19 of 27

The facts have been documented. The Trump GOP tax plan was for major corporations and the wealthy, who will derive about 80% of the benefits. They threw in a few minor tweaks for the middle class working guy and woman.

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Re: Average tax refund down 8.4%

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Message 20 of 27

I am too flabbergasted by the near doubling of the standard deduction to care about your little refund nonsense.  I don't have to fill out Schedule A anymore!

 

Old Witch
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