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Honored Social Butterfly

Armed Mexican troops question American soldiers

"On April 13, 2019, at approximately 2 p.m. CDT, five to six Mexican military personnel questioned two U.S. Army soldiers who were conducting border support operations in an unmarked (Customs and Border Protection) vehicle near the southwest border in the vicinity of Clint, Texas," US Northern Command told CNN in a statement.
 
"The US soldiers were appropriately in US territory" during the encounter, the statement added.
During the incident, the Mexican soldiers pointed their weapons at the US troops, removing a soldier's sidearm and returning it to the unmarked US vehicle, the officials said.
 
The Mexican troops were armed with what appeared to be assault rifles, according to one official.
 
Posse Comitatus Violations By Trump 
 
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years
 
 
 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

Honored Social Butterfly

: Armed Mexican troops question American soldiers

 

 

Maybe is has something to do with armed militia dressed like the US military making " citizen's arrests " near the US border.

 

 

I wonder if they're crossing the border to " arrest " people, then bringing them back to the US and saying " See we got one " ?

 

 

Could be  Mexican Citizens living near  the border are being terrorized by US right wing militias, and the Mexican police / military are trying to protect their own citizens.

Honored Social Butterfly


@gruffstuff wrote:

 

Could be  Mexican Citizens living near  the border are being terrorized by US right wing militias, and the Mexican police / military are trying to protect their own citizens.


Or it could be as the CNN article said:  "the officials said the river in that area consists of brush-filled and dried-out riverbed, making it "very easy" for people to be confused as to what side of the border they are on."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/19/politics/mexican-troops-american-soldiers-border/index.html

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Mickstuder posted:

 
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years
 
 
And he's right. It's not just that our Federal military cannot serve to arrest refugees, they cannot even direct traffic - that's a POLICE function. Decades ago, an Army Base Commander decided to help out with the dangerous traffic situation at the entrance to his installation. The little town where the "uncontrolled" intersection was located could not afford to install traffic lights, so the CO rolled out a portable 4-way stop signal, and solved the problem.  Unfortunately this was ruled a violation of the posse comitatus  prohibition noted above even tho no Troops were deployed and the signal was wheeled back inside the base.
 
What Cadet Bonespurs is doing with our Armed Forces along the Mexican border is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
Honored Social Butterfly


@Olderscout66 wrote:
 
Decades ago, an Army Base Commander decided to help out with the dangerous traffic situation at the entrance to his installation. The little town where the "uncontrolled" intersection was located could not afford to install traffic lights, so the CO rolled out a portable 4-way stop signal, and solved the problem.  Unfortunately this was ruled a violation of the posse comitatus  prohibition noted above even tho no Troops were deployed and the signal was wheeled back inside the base.
 
.......our Armed Forces along the Mexican border is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Strange that this wasn't mentioned in the classes on the Posse Comitatus act in the Army advanced NCO schools I attended.  Could you give a source for that incident?  Unless you can provide a source, it has been my experience that the commander of a military base would have coordinated safety considerations with the local authorities.

 

They do have the authority to put a town off limits if there are concerns affecting military operations and welfare.

 

You might recall that Eisenhower used federal troops in Little Rock to enforce racial desegregation in the schools there.  Was that a violation?

 

No, the troops are not at the border in a law enforcement capacity, but in a support way.  There are military police along to protect our troops if needed.  As far as the Mexican soldiers, they were intrusive across our borders whether on purpose or accidentally.  If the role had been that our troops had crossed into Mexico, they would have no doubt been prosecuted.  That has happened to civilians carrying firearms.

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Apparently Tex attended some class where they told him using Federal Military personnel as civilian police was okay. Strange.

Here's what Ike had to say about his use of the Military withing the USA:

 

The very basis of our individual rights and freedoms rests upon the certainty that the President and the Executive Branch of Government will support and insure the carrying out of the decisions of the Federal Courts, even, when necessary with all the means at the President’s command.

Unless the President did so, anarchy would result.

There would be no security for any except that which each one of us could provide for himself.

The interest of the nation in the proper fulfillment of the law’s requirements cannot yield to opposition and demonstrations by some few persons.

Mob rule cannot be allowed to override the decisions of our courts.

Now, let me make it very clear that Federal troops are not being used to relieve local and state authorities of their primary duty to preserve the peace and order of the community. Nor are the troops there for the purpose of taking over the responsibility of the School Board and the other responsible local officials in running Central High School. The running of our school system and the maintenance of peace and order in each of our States are strictly local affairs and the Federal Government does not interfere except in a very few special cases and when requested by one of the several States. In the present case the troops are there, pursuant to law, solely for the purpose of preventing interference with the orders of the Court.

 

https://www.history.com/topics/black.../eisenhower-intervenes-in-little-rock-crisis-vide..

Honored Social Butterfly


@Olderscout66 wrote:

 

Apparently Tex attended some class where they told him using Federal Military personnel as civilian police was okay. Strange.

 

 

 


To the contrary, in those advanced NCO classes we were given the history of your Posse Comitatus law and the reasons for it.  And where the military can't be called upon to aid local law enforcement.

 

Additionally we were given examples of where the military might be used in a support position to law enforcement.  One example is the Los Angeles riots where the National Guard monitored situations and aided law enforcement in directing them to locations of interest.

 

As a further comment, if you would recall with the troops being there, their duties was purely to escort the children to school, more intimidation against any trouble makers. 

 

I do note that you haven't answered my question regarding the source of your information about the post commander and his stop sign.  

 

But a nice attempt at diversion, not only to my question but to the discussion of the Mexican military violating United States territory. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

 

Apparently Tex attended some class where they told him using Federal Military personnel as civilian police was okay. Strange.

 

 

 


To the contrary, in those advanced NCO classes we were given the history of your Posse Comitatus law and the reasons for it.  And where the military can't be called upon to aid local law enforcement.

 

Additionally we were given examples of where the military might be used in a support position to law enforcement.  One example is the Los Angeles riots where the National Guard monitored situations and aided law enforcement in directing them to locations of interest.

 

I do note that you haven't answered my question regarding the source of your information about the post commander and his stop sign.  

 

But a nice attempt at diversion, not only to my question but to the discussion of the Mexican military violating United States territory. 


 

What Trump should do is to complain via the Ambassador to the Mexican President, and I can just see the Mexican President  extending his middle finger at Trump in all its glory.

no name
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@Roxanna35 wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

 

Apparently Tex attended some class where they told him using Federal Military personnel as civilian police was okay. Strange.

 

 

 


To the contrary, in those advanced NCO classes we were given the history of your Posse Comitatus law and the reasons for it.  And where the military can't be called upon to aid local law enforcement.

 

Additionally we were given examples of where the military might be used in a support position to law enforcement.  One example is the Los Angeles riots where the National Guard monitored situations and aided law enforcement in directing them to locations of interest.

 

I do note that you haven't answered my question regarding the source of your information about the post commander and his stop sign.  

 

But a nice attempt at diversion, not only to my question but to the discussion of the Mexican military violating United States territory. 


 

What Trump should do is to complain via the Ambassador to the Mexican President, and I can just see the Mexican President  extending his middle finger at Trump in all its glory.


trump supporters go to great lengths to protect or support any of trump's actions ..... any of them.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@ChasKy53 wrote:




trump supporters go to great lengths to protect or support any of trump's actions ..... any of them.


Not as much as liberals do to change the topic for partisan reasons.  Nothing was said about Trump or his policies, but about the integrity of United States borders.  No doubt there are some who are ok with foreign military disarming Americans on our side?

 

Have a good day.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:




trump supporters go to great lengths to protect or support any of trump's actions ..... any of them.


Not as much as liberals do to change the topic for partisan reasons.  Nothing was said about Trump or his policies, but about the integrity of United States borders.  No doubt there are some who are ok with foreign military disarming Americans on our side?

 

Have a good day.


Debating with anyone that ignores facts and history is futile at best, so no thanks.

 

https://www.history.com/topics/black.../eisenhower-intervenes-in-little-rock-crisis-vide..

 

I am having a wonderful day, as always !


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@ChasKy53 wrote:


Debating with anyone that ignores facts and history is futile at best, so no thanks.

 

 

 


Can you point out where I'm ignoring facts?  Perhaps you should review the history of that action.  The Democratic governor of Arkansas, Governor Faubus deployed the National Guard to PREVENT the 9 Black students from attending classes.  Then Eisenhower nationalized the guard, and deployed the 101st Airborne to depoliticize the situation and escort the students.

 

These paratroopers just escorted the protestors away from the site.

 

The mayor of Little Rock requested federal help after the Democratic (emphasis) governor allowed a riotious situation to develop.  Of course racial situations are still beneficial to liberals aren't they?

 

And still there is some who are more interested in partianism versus discussing the topic.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

 

And still there is some who are more interested in partianism(sic) versus discussing the topic.


This isn't "partisan", so pay attention to it, it's from the source provided for you:

 

"the president explains his decision to order Federal troops to Little Rock to ensure that the students are allowed access to the school, as mandated by the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Brown v. Board of Education".


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:


This isn't "partisan", so pay attention to it, it's from the source provided for you:

 

"the president explains his decision to order Federal troops to Little Rock to ensure that the students are allowed access to the school, as mandated by the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Brown v. Board of Education".


Are you telling me what to post? 

 

Read my post to Alferdpacker and would you condone the Democratic Governor of Arkansas using the National Guard to prevent those Black students from attending Little Rock High School?  Apparently you would by your objections.

 

This link might be beneficial in explaining why Eisenhower sent in the 101st Airborne.  Basically he was carrying out out his constitutional responsibility to enforce the law.  Of course there are those who would prefer to carry on partisan type arguments.

 

So do you also condone elements of the Mexican Army crossing our border and holding our soldiers at gunpoint?  Apparently you do by your continuing to stay off topic from that.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

 

So do you also condone elements of the Mexican Army crossing our border and holding our soldiers at gunpoint?  Apparently you do by your continuing to stay off topic from that.


Condone no.  but not surprised,  why not, if the Mexicans are all criminals, rapists, border crossers, drug dealers, and all the insults that Trump have showered that country why would you be surprised at their actions?

no name
Honored Social Butterfly


@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:


This isn't "partisan", so pay attention to it, it's from the source provided for you:

 

"the president explains his decision to order Federal troops to Little Rock to ensure that the students are allowed access to the school, as mandated by the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Brown v. Board of Education".


Are you telling me what to post? 

 

Read my post to Alferdpacker and would you condone the Democratic Governor of Arkansas using the National Guard to prevent those Black students from attending Little Rock High School?  Apparently you would by your objections.

 

This link might be beneficial in explaining why Eisenhower sent in the 101st Airborne.  Basically he was carrying out out his constitutional responsibility to enforce the law.  Of course there are those who would prefer to carry on partisan type arguments.

 

So do you also condone elements of the Mexican Army crossing our border and holding our soldiers at gunpoint?  Apparently you do by your continuing to stay off topic from that.


You are correct correct, there are some here who would prefer to carry on "partisan type arguments", so please don't.  Again, this isn't partisan and you didn't answer to this:

 

"the president explains his decision to order Federal troops to Little Rock to ensure that the students are allowed access to the school, as mandated by the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Brown v. Board of Education".


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly


@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:


This isn't "partisan", so pay attention to it, it's from the source provided for you:

 

"the president explains his decision to order Federal troops to Little Rock to ensure that the students are allowed access to the school, as mandated by the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Brown v. Board of Education".


Are you telling me what to post? 

 

Read my post to Alferdpacker and would you condone the Democratic Governor of Arkansas using the National Guard to prevent those Black students from attending Little Rock High School?  Apparently you would by your objections.

 

This link might be beneficial in explaining why Eisenhower sent in the 101st Airborne.  Basically he was carrying out out his constitutional responsibility to enforce the law.  Of course there are those who would prefer to carry on partisan type arguments.

 

So do you also condone elements of the Mexican Army crossing our border and holding our soldiers at gunpoint?  Apparently you do by your continuing to stay off topic from that.


The above post contains opinion as well as conclusions that may or may not be appropriate, accurate and legally conclusive.

 

Now - if a statement of the current sitting SCOTUS Chief Justice unanimously supported by the other justices were cited - conclusively settling the difference of opinion - that would be a different thing..

 

 

44>dolt45
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@alferdpacker wrote:


The above post contains opinion as well as conclusions that may or may not be appropriate, accurate and legally conclusive.

 

In any event, it appears your opinion would be that Eisenhower had no right to carry out his constitutional duties to enforce the laws of this country.  Therefore you are giving the impression that you support Faubus' action in calling out the National Guard to block the Black students from desegregating Little Rock schools.

 

And even earlier in the thread it appears that apparently you are defending and praising the Mexican soldiers actions in holding our soldiers at gunpoint on our soil.  (04-19-2019 10:51 PM)

 

Yes, I would agree that some conclusions may not be appropriate.

 

Have a good afternoon Alferd...

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randpa2 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:


The above post contains opinion as well as conclusions that may or may not be appropriate, accurate and legally conclusive.

 

In any event, it appears your opinion would be that Eisenhower had no right to carry out his constitutional duties to enforce the laws of this country.  Therefore you are giving the impression that you support Faubus' action in calling out the National Guard to block the Black students from desegregating Little Rock schools.

Nope - not at all - Fabus was a racist scumbag - as were the majority of Southern governors of that era - a significant proportion of Fabus' constituency were racists...

Sorry - any dishonest and bogus attempt to paint me as a biased person against persons of color - a pro-white racist - will never work.

 

And even earlier in the thread apparently you are defending and praising the Mexican soldiers actions in holding our soldiers at gunpoint on our territory.  (04-19-2019 10:51 PM)

Yep - sure did - I consider it a very appropriate comeuppance for the fat moron making the once respected Oval Office into a disgusting bleephole - what is the fat moron going to do but whine and make stupid, mostly unworkable threats?

What will you do to me - reduce me in rank - put me on report?

 

 

44>dolt45
Honored Social Butterfly

Here is My Point

 

There are many reasons why - Possee Comitatis - was deemed necessary

 

Not the least of which any American Veteran should appreciate & hold Sacred

 

Americans Do Not Want The Lives of Their Soldiers to be used as Political Pawns especially in their own County

 

This Border Incident is a Wonderful Illustration of what can go wrong when you deploy American Soldiers in the United States for Domestic Political or Domestic Law Enforcement Purposes

 

It's of little value to a parent who receives a visit from a Representative of the Military informing them that their Son or Daughter was just killed by Mexican Soldiers but don't worry your Son or Daughter Technically & Legally according to a Whitehouse Lawyer was acting properly

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

Honored Social Butterfly


@mickstuder wrote:

 

There are many reasons why - Possee Comitatis - was deemed necessary

 


To the contrary, perhaps you should do some more research on Posse Comitatis.  These troops were at the border; the Mexican soldiers were on U.S. soil (even mistakenly).  The mission of the military at the border wasn't for law enforcement but for logistics support for the Border Patrol.  That was mostly to free them up for enforcement.

 

In this case it was the Mexican soldiers that was wrong.  And the Americans acted correctly to defuse the situation and set them straight, thus defusing the situation.

 

There does seem many who are not that familiar with the act.  Our military was correctly deployed correctly in supporting another federal agency within the United States in a non-military capacity.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

 

There are many reasons why - Possee Comitatis - was deemed necessary

 


To the contrary, perhaps you should do some more research on Posse Comitatis.  These troops were at the border; the Mexican soldiers were on U.S. soil (even mistakenly).  The mission of the military at the border wasn't for law enforcement but for logistics support for the Border Patrol.  That was mostly to free them up for enforcement.

 

In this case it was the Mexican soldiers that was wrong.  And the Americans acted correctly to defuse the situation and set them straight, thus defusing the situation.

 

There does seem many who are not that familiar with the act.  Our military was correctly deployed correctly in supporting another federal agency within the United States in a non-military capacity.


Not sure what Military you claim to be a Veteran of

 

But I know I Never Belonged To A US Miltary Organization that Believed My Service to My Country involved being put in a position where I could be held at Gun Point by the Mexican Army on US Soil & worse have it happen

 

Just the Fact That This Incident Happened with the Commander & Chief Mute - is all the proof anyone should require to prove our current Commander in Chief is incompetent

 

I would have refused that kind of duty Mister & I would have dared my Government to Court Martial me over it

 

Uniform Code of Military Conduct

 

You Do Not Have To Obey A Illegal Order No Matter Who Issues it

 

I would have tested the Legality of that Order all the way to the Supreme Court & Won

 

Again the Incident Proves The Deployment of US Soldiers to the Southern Border where they were held on US Soil at Gun Point by Foreign Soldiers and their President response is to go Golfing at Mar a Lago just reaffirms that my response to such a deployment would have been to refuse

 

Imagine being one of those US Soldiers & being hung out to dry like that being abandoned by their entire Chain of Command all the way to the top

 

It disgusts me that other American Veterans would try to not only defend this mistreatment of US Soldiers but continue to support it

 

UnAmerican at the least and un supportive of the US Military at its worst

 

A Fully Trained & Equipped US Soldier is the most feared Individual Military Unit on the Planet - to disgrace them by using them in this manner & expecting them to endure this kind of humiliating incident & without any appropriate defensive response or retaliation is beyond my ability to comprehend

 

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

Honored Social Butterfly


@mickstuder wrote:


 

But I know I Never Belonged To A US Miltary Organization that Believed My Service to My Country involved being put in a position where I could be held at Gun Point by the Mexican Army on US Soil & worse have it happen

 


I'm sure that the two soldiers acted responsibly.  As far as the Mexican soldiers that would be another question.  First it has already been explained that the border in that are is the Rio Grande.  But again it was in an area where the border fence was back from the actual border and the river bed was dry at the location.

 

One of the soldiers spoke Spanish and the two defused the situation.  I'm sure that the Mexican soldiers has had a good 'talking to' by now about international borders.

 

Of course these soldiers were not deliberately placed in that situation, but it was just a situation that happened.  And there was nothing about the incident about following an illegal order, and if it was it would go no farther than the Commanding General, but I have no doubt who would come out ahead unless there was a very good reason for the disobedience.

 

Perhaps other Veterans are looking at this situation more logically than wanting to make a political issue to place blame on someone they politically disagree with?

 

 

 

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

Our military was correctly deployed correctly in supporting another federal agency within the United States in a non-military capacity.

So there was no justifiable reason for them to be armed - we thought so...

 

 

44>dolt45
Honored Social Butterfly


@alferdpacker wrote:


So there was no justifiable reason for them to be armed - we thought so...

 


To the contrary, for defensive purposes by the military law enforcement personnel.  Those of the Engineer units didn't.

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@Olderscout66 wrote:

Apparently Tex attended some class where they told him using Federal Military personnel as civilian police was okay. Strange.

Here's what Ike had to say about his use of the Military withing the USA:

 

The very basis of our individual rights and freedoms rests upon the certainty that the President and the Executive Branch of Government will support and insure the carrying out of the decisions of the Federal Courts, even, when necessary with all the means at the President’s command.

Unless the President did so, anarchy would result.

There would be no security for any except that which each one of us could provide for himself.

The interest of the nation in the proper fulfillment of the law’s requirements cannot yield to opposition and demonstrations by some few persons.

Mob rule cannot be allowed to override the decisions of our courts.

Now, let me make it very clear that Federal troops are not being used to relieve local and state authorities of their primary duty to preserve the peace and order of the community. Nor are the troops there for the purpose of taking over the responsibility of the School Board and the other responsible local officials in running Central High School. The running of our school system and the maintenance of peace and order in each of our States are strictly local affairs and the Federal Government does not interfere except in a very few special cases and when requested by one of the several States. In the present case the troops are there, pursuant to law, solely for the purpose of preventing interference with the orders of the Court.

 

https://www.history.com/topics/black.../eisenhower-intervenes-in-little-rock-crisis-vide..


In most cases where "man learns nothing from history" it is because many men don't know history. Often when history it goes against what they believe they simply ignore it.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

Armed Mexican troops question American soldiers

 

Turn the southern border into the iron curtain, create gulags for children, put toddlers in the docket,  put armed soldiers on each side of the border , and then engage in a cycle of demonizing the " Mexicans ".

 

 

What could go wrong?

Honored Social Butterfly


@mickstuder wrote:
"On April 13, 2019, at approximately 2 p.m. CDT, five to six Mexican military personnel questioned two U.S. Army soldiers who were conducting border support operations in an unmarked (Customs and Border Protection) vehicle near the southwest border in the vicinity of Clint, Texas," US Northern Command told CNN in a statement.
 
"The US soldiers were appropriately in US territory" during the encounter, the statement added.
During the incident, the Mexican soldiers pointed their weapons at the US troops, removing a soldier's sidearm and returning it to the unmarked US vehicle, the officials said.
 
The Mexican troops were armed with what appeared to be assault rifles, according to one official.
 
Posse Comitatus Violations By Trump 
 
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years
 
 
 

In this case, the soldiers were operating correctly.  They were not enforcing the law, but were there in support of the Border Patrol.  Technically the Mexican soldiers were in the wrong, even though it was a misunderstanding on their part.  But they had no right to point their weapons at our military or relieve the soldier of his sidearm.

 

Further, they and their superiors were at fault in not insuring that such an incident would happen with their operating so close to the border, especially since it was so vague given the brush and dry riverbed.

 

The Posse Comitatus law doesn't apply in the reason that military was on the border.  Without doubt partianism is involved in these posts as usual.  I wouldn't praise the Mexican soldiers for operating across our border.

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@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

 
 

In this case, the soldiers were operating correctly.  They were not enforcing the law, but were there in support of the Border Patrol.  Technically the Mexican soldiers were in the wrong, even though it was a misunderstanding on their part.  But they had no right to point their weapons at our military or relieve the soldier of his sidearm.   You mean those murderous, rapists criminal Mexicans were abusing the US soldiers?  Oh how sorry, I guess the Trump should demand an explanation from the Mexican President. don't  you think?

 

Further, they and their superiors were at fault in not insuring that such an incident would happen with their operating so close to the border, especially since it was so vague given the brush and dry riverbed.  Oh yeam thet should have kisssed the behind of those soldiers because  they were so abused

 

The Posse Comitatus law doesn't apply in the reason that military was on the border.  Without doubt partianism is involved in these posts as usual.  I wouldn't praise the Mexican soldiers for operating across our border.   Oh yeas the Democrats were there to incide the Mexicans to tak action really?  And you are fogetting Obama, I bet he was there also.


 

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@Roxanna35 wrote:

 

You mean those murderous, rapists criminal Mexicans were abusing the US soldiers?  Oh how sorry, I guess the (sic) Trump should demand an explanation from the Mexican President. don't  you think?

 

Oh yeas (sic) the Democrats were there to incide (sic) the Mexicans to tak (sic) action really?  And you are fogetting (sic) Obama, I bet he was there also.


 


What I think is that someone is attempting to be fallacious but falling short.

 

Heard of spell-check?

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