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Are seniors being thrown under the tax reform bus?

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Message 21 of 45

If the House GOP tax plan becomes law, nearly 81 million Americans, 47.5 percent of all tax filers, would pay nothing in federal income taxes next year, according to a calculation by research firm Evercore ISI. That's an increase of more than 6 million additional tax filers owing nothing in income taxes to the federal government.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/09/nearly-81-million-americans-would-pay-0-under...

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Re: Are seniors being thrown under the tax reform bus?

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Message 22 of 45

Here's some numbers to think about:

Right now family of 4 deduct personal deductions of ($4,040 x 4=) $16,200 and Standard Deduction of $6,350,for a total of $22,550.

Republican scam changes this to Standard Deduction of $24,000 for a married couple, an increase of (24,000-22,550=)$1,050 or (1050/22550=)  4.6% NOT 100% as claimed by the mathematically challenged.

 

Oh, by the way, you'll also share in the $300Billion cut to Medicare and total gutting of Medicaid, and the addition of millions of parasites who won't get insurance because they don't have to, but will continue to get sick and injured at the same pace as before, plus throwing 30MILLION off their current health insurance so they get care in the ER for $5,000/visit vs $150 for their current MD,  which will jack your insurance premiums by WAY more than you'll ever save under this latest Republican taxscam.

 

Meanwhile the $1,000,000 income which today would pay $340,014 would only pay $309.500 for a 10% reduction, thanks to Republican "simplification".

 

The only thing "simple" in the REpublican plan arethe people who think it's a "reform" instead of the redistribution of more wealth from the middle to the very top.

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Re: Are seniors being thrown under the tax reform bus?

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Message 23 of 45

@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

I have concluded that you currently don't pay any income tax so you don't give a hoot about the others that are subsidizing YOU. If you did have an income tax liability, you would (if you were thinking logically) want a bigger portion of your own money returned to you.


I want to know who is subsidizing the $1.3 TRILLION the Republicans are adding to the deficit. Oh right.............ME. 


That would be 330 million people times 53% (income tax paying people) or 174,900,000 people!

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Re: Are seniors being thrown under the tax reform bus?

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Message 24 of 45

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

I have concluded that you currently don't pay any income tax so you don't give a hoot about the others that are subsidizing YOU. If you did have an income tax liability, you would (if you were thinking logically) want a bigger portion of your own money returned to you.


I want to know who is subsidizing the $1.3 TRILLION the Republicans are adding to the deficit. Oh right.............ME. 

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Re: Are seniors being thrown under the tax reform bus?

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Message 25 of 45

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

 


Why would any tax accountant like to see a simpler tax program where all would pay less and accountants wouldn't be needed? You see, the tax accountant is not looking forward to serving burgers at Burger King if he/she can even find a replacement job. Sometimes liberals have to think????????????????


What an erroneous post!!


Why not tell me what is erroneous about the posting? Tax accountants are needed for people with complex tax problems. That would be anyone filing under the current U.S. income tax code. If it were as simple as three rates with no deductibles, it could be done by ALL without accountants. Only the most feeble minds would still require an accountant for a personal return.

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Re: Are seniors being thrown under the tax reform bus?

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Message 26 of 45

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

 


It is very clear to me (and many others) that you either don't understand the new tax program, don't want to understand it, don't care because you currently pay no taxes, or are just fond of having government manage YOUR MONEY!


It's very clear to me that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


I have concluded that you currently don't pay any income tax so you don't give a hoot about the others that are subsidizing YOU. If you did have an income tax liability, you would (if you were thinking logically) want a bigger portion of your own money returned to you.

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Re: Are seniors being thrown under the tax reform bus?

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Message 27 of 45

@byrondennis wrote:

@ch40109522 wrote:

My concern is that I have not seen an unbiased assessment or analysis of the impact that the current proposals will have on seniors, in particular middle-class seniors. I don't except the word of a body of legislators that has a 14% approval rating. It's not true that there's not anyone here impacted by the $500k mortgage interest cap. Likewise, it doesn't take much of a medical emergency to reach the 10% of AGI for the medical deduction. A family of two seniors with Medicare and long term care policies are paying at least $10k per year in insurance premiums. Add in medicare supplements and you over $12k per year. Take away SALT deductions and it's almost certain that middle-class seniors will see a tax increase even with the $24k standard deduction for a family of two. All national political decisions have uneven consequences across the country. In high cost areas of the country the math works further to the detriment of seniors.


OK this comment differs from your first (or are you a different chnnnnnn?). Is this a change of opinion on your part or just additive? Your first comment's idea that inflation -- caused by the success of proposed tax reform -- was something to be concerned about was a good one. Your thoughts here -- particularly in terms of thinking that millions of seniors have mortages larger than $500,000 -- just don't jibe with the available data.

 

For some analysis of the demographics of seniors, it has been done by AARP and can be found here. I choose this because you now seem to want to base your concern on the prevalence and impact of being able to/not being able to deduct medical expenses that run over 10% of AGI (although I personally think the SALT deductions are more important... although still not very important)

 

I am making the assumption by "seniors," you mean people over 65? I am also making the assumption that almost everyone over 65 is on Medicare just because that is the group that AARP analyzed (that is not 100% true but close enough for government work, particularly because your concern is medical expense deductiblity on Schedule A).

 

As the AARP facts illustrate (forget the words, just look at the tables), this whole discussion about the affect of tax reform on seniors only applies to about 25% of us over 65 (see Table 5). When you further slice and dice that group you find that less than 10% of us are "hurt" by tax reform and 90% of us are helped. (And those that are "hurt" are the richest and the most likely to find a work around). In fact, tax reform math works in favor of seniors becasue despite your concern for those of us with $1,000,000 mortgages:

  • -- most of don't have mortages at all
  • -- we almost all have medical insurance, much of it first dollar coverage
  • -- 75% of us make less than $35,000 so don't pay much if any state or local income taxes (unless you live in a really senior-unfriendly state I guess; but I don't know of one)
  • -- very few of us (like 8% I think) even file Schedule A's today
  • -- a large percent of us (20% or so) don't even file 1040s

(Oh, and when talking about the $24,000 standard deduction, don't forget to figure in the $600 tax credits. Tax credits are much better than deductions.)


You keep referring to the AARP tables etc. to support what you say is Tax Reform as it will cut taxes for Seniors. You did not say that AARP does not support the TAX Cut for the rich. AARP has experts on staff who understand the tax proposal and came to not supporting it based on the same data as you. Well I will go with the AARP experts as they really know what they are talking about. It also looks like every other expert in the tax field agrees with them also as they all say the same thing. This is not tax reform but a tax cut for the rich, and a tax increase for the rest of us. Could be you might want to study taxes some more to find out why you stand out a lone in defending this tax cut for the rich.

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Re: Are seniors being thrown under the tax reform bus?

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Message 28 of 45

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

 


Why would any tax accountant like to see a simpler tax program where all would pay less and accountants wouldn't be needed? You see, the tax accountant is not looking forward to serving burgers at Burger King if he/she can even find a replacement job. Sometimes liberals have to think????????????????


What an erroneous post!!


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Are seniors being thrown under the tax reform bus?

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Message 29 of 45

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

 


It is very clear to me (and many others) that you either don't understand the new tax program, don't want to understand it, don't care because you currently pay no taxes, or are just fond of having government manage YOUR MONEY!


It's very clear to me that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Are seniors being thrown under the tax reform bus?

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Message 30 of 45

@ch40109522 wrote:

My concern is that I have not seen an unbiased assessment or analysis of the impact that the current proposals will have on seniors, in particular middle-class seniors. I don't except the word of a body of legislators that has a 14% approval rating. It's not true that there's not anyone here impacted by the $500k mortgage interest cap. Likewise, it doesn't take much of a medical emergency to reach the 10% of AGI for the medical deduction. A family of two seniors with Medicare and long term care policies are paying at least $10k per year in insurance premiums. Add in medicare supplements and you over $12k per year. Take away SALT deductions and it's almost certain that middle-class seniors will see a tax increase even with the $24k standard deduction for a family of two. All national political decisions have uneven consequences across the country. In high cost areas of the country the math works further to the detriment of seniors.


OK this comment differs from your first (or are you a different chnnnnnn?). Is this a change of opinion on your part or just additive? Your first comment's idea that inflation -- caused by the success of proposed tax reform -- was something to be concerned about was a good one. Your thoughts here -- particularly in terms of thinking that millions of seniors have mortages larger than $500,000 -- just don't jibe with the available data.

 

For some analysis of the demographics of seniors, it has been done by AARP and can be found here. I choose this because you now seem to want to base your concern on the prevalence and impact of being able to/not being able to deduct medical expenses that run over 10% of AGI (although I personally think the SALT deductions are more important... although still not very important)

 

I am making the assumption by "seniors," you mean people over 65? I am also making the assumption that almost everyone over 65 is on Medicare just because that is the group that AARP analyzed (that is not 100% true but close enough for government work, particularly because your concern is medical expense deductiblity on Schedule A).

 

As the AARP facts illustrate (forget the words, just look at the tables), this whole discussion about the affect of tax reform on seniors only applies to about 25% of us over 65 (see Table 5). When you further slice and dice that group you find that less than 10% of us are "hurt" by tax reform and 90% of us are helped. (And those that are "hurt" are the richest and the most likely to find a work around). In fact, tax reform math works in favor of seniors becasue despite your concern for those of us with $1,000,000 mortgages:

  • -- most of don't have mortages at all
  • -- we almost all have medical insurance, much of it first dollar coverage
  • -- 75% of us make less than $35,000 so don't pay much if any state or local income taxes (unless you live in a really senior-unfriendly state I guess; but I don't know of one)
  • -- very few of us (like 8% I think) even file Schedule A's today
  • -- a large percent of us (20% or so) don't even file 1040s

(Oh, and when talking about the $24,000 standard deduction, don't forget to figure in the $600 tax credits. Tax credits are much better than deductions.)

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